Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Greg
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Looks like a color changeling - note the burn mark on the lower right hand perforation and the right lapel of Cartier's coat and the area under his legs - they have a grey/black undertone to them.
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Have no clue. The stamp is faded all the way round but I cannot fathom how you could get a changeling from Blue to Brown. Seeing how it is perfed and is not a clean strike would probably rule out it being a proof or essay.
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Given how washed out the stamp looks, I think some kind of chemical (peroxide?) has been applied to a copy of the regular blue stamp. The foxing on the lower right could have occurred well after the stamp was altered.
Eric
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Peroxide won't do that to the ink. Chlorine bleach might, and the sun can fade out the color too. The foxing can be minimized in an ammonia bath, but that won't bring back the blue color either.
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When considering a color changeling, always look at the color consistency across the entire face of the stamp. A color changeling stamp will almost always have variations in the color shades. The changing agent (whether it be sunlight or chemical) rarely affects the stamp exactly the same across the entire stamp, there will be tonal differences. This is seen in this stamp, the brown tones are quite inconsistent in places. To my eye and given this image, this stamp appears to be a color changeling.
Don
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My friend who owns this heard back from the Canadian Stamp Dealers Assn and they too felt it was a changling. There logic was that if it really was brown where are the other 99 from the sheet. The stamp also has full gum. I don't know how color changes are done but wouldn't that mean the stamp was regummed as well?
Greg
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Greg, Not neccesarily. It all depend what chemical caused the reaction. If not water soluable it probably would not affect the gum. I've seen many changeling but cannot remember a Blue to Brown which doesn't seem all that possible, wish I knew what the active ingredient was.
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There are some blue pigments which are iron based. Ferri-ferrocyanide (Prussian Blue) has been around a long time. It makes the blue in blueprints. There are others based on copper, cobalt, or aluminum, but Prussian Blue was probably the go-to blue pigment when the Cartier series was printed and is the likely candidate for the blue ink used.
Umber is a naturally occurring earth pigment based on iron oxide and manganese oxide. It can give a range of browns from medium to dark. Synthetic umber was made from the pure oxides to get consistent colors. Soundcrest's brown version looks a lot like some of the shades of umber, but I can't see any chemical mechanism that would get you from ferri-ferrocyanide to iron oxide and at the same time conjure up manganese oxide.
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01:22:47pm
" ... There (Their ?) logic was that
if it really was brown where are
the other 99 from the sheet. ..."
I can just imagine Mr. Spock saying;
"That is not at all logical"
(Facepalm.)
It may be likely, but does not eliminate the possibility.
It is the kind of presumptuous statement that implies;
"Since I do not have one in my reference collection,
it must be bogus."
And may be measured against;
'Where are the other 99 (Or 49, or 24)
British Guinea 1ct Magentas?"
Remember the story about the flying pigs ?
A fellow has a thousand pigs sent to the top
of his apartment building using the elevator, ten at a time
He stands there and tosses one after another over the edge
and notes whether it flies.
or falls to the center of the street below.
As number 999 falls adding to the pile of bacon below,
he turns and proclaims,
"That proves that pigs cannot fly."
The logical mind shudders.
And the elevator is filthy.
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Auctions - Approvals
A friend of mine got this in a very old w/w album. Scan color isn't exactly right but he says it is a light brown, mint with gum. Has anyone ever seen one like this or have any information on it? I struck out with all the catalogue's I have. Thanks
Greg
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re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
Looks like a color changeling - note the burn mark on the lower right hand perforation and the right lapel of Cartier's coat and the area under his legs - they have a grey/black undertone to them.
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re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
Have no clue. The stamp is faded all the way round but I cannot fathom how you could get a changeling from Blue to Brown. Seeing how it is perfed and is not a clean strike would probably rule out it being a proof or essay.
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03:41:50pm
re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
Given how washed out the stamp looks, I think some kind of chemical (peroxide?) has been applied to a copy of the regular blue stamp. The foxing on the lower right could have occurred well after the stamp was altered.
Eric
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11:57:08pm
re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
Peroxide won't do that to the ink. Chlorine bleach might, and the sun can fade out the color too. The foxing can be minimized in an ammonia bath, but that won't bring back the blue color either.
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re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
When considering a color changeling, always look at the color consistency across the entire face of the stamp. A color changeling stamp will almost always have variations in the color shades. The changing agent (whether it be sunlight or chemical) rarely affects the stamp exactly the same across the entire stamp, there will be tonal differences. This is seen in this stamp, the brown tones are quite inconsistent in places. To my eye and given this image, this stamp appears to be a color changeling.
Don
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
My friend who owns this heard back from the Canadian Stamp Dealers Assn and they too felt it was a changling. There logic was that if it really was brown where are the other 99 from the sheet. The stamp also has full gum. I don't know how color changes are done but wouldn't that mean the stamp was regummed as well?
Greg
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re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
Greg, Not neccesarily. It all depend what chemical caused the reaction. If not water soluable it probably would not affect the gum. I've seen many changeling but cannot remember a Blue to Brown which doesn't seem all that possible, wish I knew what the active ingredient was.
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10:19:46am
re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
There are some blue pigments which are iron based. Ferri-ferrocyanide (Prussian Blue) has been around a long time. It makes the blue in blueprints. There are others based on copper, cobalt, or aluminum, but Prussian Blue was probably the go-to blue pigment when the Cartier series was printed and is the likely candidate for the blue ink used.
Umber is a naturally occurring earth pigment based on iron oxide and manganese oxide. It can give a range of browns from medium to dark. Synthetic umber was made from the pure oxides to get consistent colors. Soundcrest's brown version looks a lot like some of the shades of umber, but I can't see any chemical mechanism that would get you from ferri-ferrocyanide to iron oxide and at the same time conjure up manganese oxide.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 May 2017
01:22:47pm
re: Canada #208 Cartier But Light Brown
" ... There (Their ?) logic was that
if it really was brown where are
the other 99 from the sheet. ..."
I can just imagine Mr. Spock saying;
"That is not at all logical"
(Facepalm.)
It may be likely, but does not eliminate the possibility.
It is the kind of presumptuous statement that implies;
"Since I do not have one in my reference collection,
it must be bogus."
And may be measured against;
'Where are the other 99 (Or 49, or 24)
British Guinea 1ct Magentas?"
Remember the story about the flying pigs ?
A fellow has a thousand pigs sent to the top
of his apartment building using the elevator, ten at a time
He stands there and tosses one after another over the edge
and notes whether it flies.
or falls to the center of the street below.
As number 999 falls adding to the pile of bacon below,
he turns and proclaims,
"That proves that pigs cannot fly."
The logical mind shudders.
And the elevator is filthy.
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