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General Philatelic/Supplies, Literature & Software : Brookman vs Scott Specialized

 

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

25 May 2017
03:08:12pm
Friends,

I've read that both the Brookman and the Scott US Specialized catalogs have listings for FDCs. I have not directly seen either catalog, but would like to purchase one or the other. In your opinion, which is better for FDCs?

Thanks for you knowledgeable assistance,

--Doug

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Philatarium
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APS #187980

25 May 2017
08:07:37pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I've been hoping that someone who can answer your question in a well-informed manner would come along.

So, until that person comes along, let me just say that I haven't seen a Brookman in a few years, so I don't know if Brookman does more than just price a generic FDC, the same as Scott does in their catalog.

Scott *used* to publish a US FDC catalog that also priced by major cachet makers. Until today, I thought they still did, but a little research at the Amos site and on Amazon and eBay shows that that seems to be no longer the case. And based on the prices that the older ones seem to be listed for, it looks like these are getting harder to find.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Books/267/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Scott+FDC+catalog

But I found the pricing by cachet maker to be very helpful, especially because I don't really know those nuances very well.

Perhaps someone will be able to offer an informed opinion of the listings between Brookman and Scott Specialized.

I think I had heard that one advantage of the Brookman is that it prices full sheets, which Scott does not (unless they've started in the last several years).

Overall, I will say that the Scott Specialized really does have a lot of amazing information in it, and is quite a resource.

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25 May 2017
09:14:08pm

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re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Are you just interested in FDC's or do you also want stamp pricing and identification.

If just FDC's are your interests in all vintages or just modern?

If you are just looking for FDC information there are better sources of information than either of these.

When I am dealing with something not covered in one of my catalogs I just look up the Scott number on Ebay and drill down to FDC's. I usually find one or more of what I have.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

25 May 2017
10:08:27pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I have the 2016 H.E. Harris US/BNA Catalog. It lists FDCs as both single and plate block. It also lists full sheets. I bought it at Hobby Lobby last year because I like that it's hard cover spiral bound and lays flat. I also like that the color stamp picture is directly above that stamp's entry, with the Scott number, instead of those numbers Scott uses on illustrations. I don't know how the values work out, I'd love to see it side by side with a Scott Specialized. With the Hobby Lobby 40% off coupon I believe I paid something like $15 for it.

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

25 May 2017
11:41:59pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Thank you all for your helpful responses.

Philatarium, I had no idea Scott used to publish a catalog exclusively for FDCs. I wonder if they quit doing this because they incorporated that information into the US Specialized catalog. Thanks for the eBay link. I did some more searching on eBay and found these out-of-date catalogs are being offered for over US$200 for the more recent editions to US$35 for very old editions. One seller is offering a 2008 edition for US$491. Surprise In the hope that this will be a useful reference, I bought a copy at a far more reasonable price--but still not cheap!

Webpaper, I use EZStamp software with up-to-date Scott identification and pricing, so I don't need a stamp catalog per se (although I know that, as Philatarium says, the Scott Specialized is a treasury of helpful information). I collect what I'll call "select" FDCs from 1929 to present as a side hobby to stamp collecting, but my collection is getting large enough that I need to inventory it. I am a member of the American First Day Cover Society and have found a wealth of information on FDCs and cachetmakers, but no handy and comprehensive list that would be useful for inventory entries. Thank you for the eBay drill-down suggestion. I will make use of that.

BenFranklin1902, I hadn't considered H.E. Harris. That sounds like a good alternative.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

26 May 2017
08:21:43am

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re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

looks like 2009 is the final year Scott published Mellone's FDC catalogue. I found some on Amazon for significantly less than Doug's quoted prices, but more recent ones are still, ummmm, dear.

I think that Mellone and Scott had a falling out a decade ago over the usage of the Scott numbering system, if I recall.

Mellone still produces FDC catalogues, but they're no longer all encompassing; instead they focus on narrow areas.

I don't know Brookman for FDCs, but do for stamps, where i find it often values stamps significantly higher than Scott does, and, except for the choices stamps, Scott's pricing is generally high, so Brookman further distorts that. Don't know if that applies to FDCs.

The US Specialized lists US FDCs, but prices only the most common cachet and experience tells me THOSE prices are wildly inaccurate.

David

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

26 May 2017
10:38:58am
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

David, thanks for the tip about the Mellone catalogs. The AFDCS lists only five references for FDCs, one of which is "Mellone's Planty Photo Encyclopedia of Cacheted First Day Covers, multi-volume catalog of cachets, Michael A. Mellone, FDC Publishing Co." There are multiple volumes of this spanning the decades since 1925 (as well as the narrower topical catalogs you mention), but I also found a single, collected volume: First Day Cover Photo Encyclopedia of First Cachets Revealed 1925-2005.

Image Not Found

At 1,625 pages, it promises to be a useful visual identification reference. I also found this companion reference: Mellone's FDC Alphabetical Listing of First Cachets 1925-2005.

Image Not Found

It is intended to complement the FDC Photo Encyclopedia. I have purchased both. I'll post a review after I receive them.

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parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

26 May 2017
11:26:54am
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I don't think either of them will give you enough information. Value is primarily in the cachet. Most catalogs don't get into the value of each cachet maker. The way I tell retail value is to go to Jim McClusker's website and search for catalog number. It is very rare that I don't find my cachet on his site. Remember the price is retail. If I find the item on Ebay for less, I will buy it there.

http://www.jamesmccusker.com/

Bob

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

26 May 2017
11:53:26am
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Bob,

I agree that these won't be very helpful in regard to pricing. My main intention for these is to help me with visual identification. I have to admit that I purchased many covers over the years with little regard at the time for the cachetmaker and other incidentals. For retail pricing, I will go to the McCusker site. Thanks for the suggestion.

--Doug

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parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

26 May 2017
12:06:44pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I use it for identification too. Like I said, it is very rare that I don't find what I'm looking for on his site.

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tomiseksj
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26 May 2017
02:32:22pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I can't comment on Brookman but the Scott Specialized listing of FDCs only provides information on the stamp and official first day locations and not the various cachets associated with those stamps.

For that I'd recommend the series of Mellone's specialized cachet catalogs as pictured below as they provide images of many (but not all) of the printed or hand-drawn cachets associated with each stamp.

The listings can also function as a checklist and they provide relative valuation, albeit in 1984 prices, of the various cachets. "First cachets" are also noted.

Image Not Found

I bought a 2000 Scott FDC Catalogue & Checklist on ebay in the hope that it would provide more current information. I was quite disappointed when it arrived as it hardly showed any cachets.

For the stamp I collect, the Iwo Jima issue (Scott 929), the Mellone's Specialized shown above lists images of 61 different cachets...the 2000 Scott FDC Catalogue showed zero.

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

26 May 2017
03:29:22pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Thank you, Steve. You've confirmed my guess that the Scott FDC Catalog and Checklist wouldn't have many illustrations. I hope to use it for the ancillary information on issuance, etc., and perhaps as a handy want/check list for bourses. Based on what I've read, the comprehensive Mellone's FDC Photo Encyclopedia 1925-2005 that I ordered includes the volume you mention. I hope to use this as my visual guide. For current retail pricing, I intend to rely on the McCusker site and similar venues. I've ordered the Brookman 2017, too; let's see if that can add to the mix.

--Doug

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khj
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26 May 2017
03:58:34pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Mellone increased depth of the Scott FDC catalogue in the mid-2000s. You will find a pretty dramatic increase in price of the used catalogues because of this, although only the ones after mid-decade have the increased content. I don't remember what year he started making significant additions. The earlier ones can still be had for very cheap if you stay away from eBay. I purchased my 2001 about 5 years ago for $5 or less. However, as mentioned above, the earlier editions are basically checklists, with selected illustrations of some special cachets for pre-WWII covers, and sort of a generic premium pricing factor provided for some of the more popular premium cachet-makers.

You have to go to the subsequent multi-volume year range Mellone/Planty catalogues if you want to see the more unusual (limited production) cachets.

I agree that some of the pricing for the used Scott FDC catalogues are ridiculous. For some of those prices, you could actually get close to the whole set of the Mellone/Planty multi-volume catalogues!

Looking forward to reading your review of Mellone's First Cachet Encyclopedia/Reference, as I've not looked into either one before.

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BenFranklin1902
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Tom in Exton, PA

26 May 2017
09:27:36pm
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

If anyone has the catalogue for first issues of cachet makers, Id like to see the listing for ODDITY Cachets... I produced those in the 1980s. I've seen my first cachet correctly identified on eBay.

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DouglasGPerry
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APS Member #196859

05 Jun 2017
11:35:23am
re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

"If anyone has the catalogue for first issues of cachet makers, Id like to see the listing for ODDITY Cachets... I produced those in the 1980s. I've seen my first cachet correctly identified on eBay."

Tom, Mellone's First Day Cover Alphabetical Listing of First Cachets, Ver. 1.1 lists the first Oddity cachet as being on an FDC for US Scott 1615 (Planty 1615-B), issued on April 23, 1976. This corresponds with the entry in Mellone's First Day Cover Photo Encyclopedia of First Cachets, p. 317.

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Author/Postings
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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
25 May 2017
03:08:12pm

Friends,

I've read that both the Brookman and the Scott US Specialized catalogs have listings for FDCs. I have not directly seen either catalog, but would like to purchase one or the other. In your opinion, which is better for FDCs?

Thanks for you knowledgeable assistance,

--Doug

Image Not Found Image Not Found

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Philatarium

APS #187980
25 May 2017
08:07:37pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I've been hoping that someone who can answer your question in a well-informed manner would come along.

So, until that person comes along, let me just say that I haven't seen a Brookman in a few years, so I don't know if Brookman does more than just price a generic FDC, the same as Scott does in their catalog.

Scott *used* to publish a US FDC catalog that also priced by major cachet makers. Until today, I thought they still did, but a little research at the Amos site and on Amazon and eBay shows that that seems to be no longer the case. And based on the prices that the older ones seem to be listed for, it looks like these are getting harder to find.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Books/267/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Scott+FDC+catalog

But I found the pricing by cachet maker to be very helpful, especially because I don't really know those nuances very well.

Perhaps someone will be able to offer an informed opinion of the listings between Brookman and Scott Specialized.

I think I had heard that one advantage of the Brookman is that it prices full sheets, which Scott does not (unless they've started in the last several years).

Overall, I will say that the Scott Specialized really does have a lot of amazing information in it, and is quite a resource.

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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

25 May 2017
09:14:08pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Are you just interested in FDC's or do you also want stamp pricing and identification.

If just FDC's are your interests in all vintages or just modern?

If you are just looking for FDC information there are better sources of information than either of these.

When I am dealing with something not covered in one of my catalogs I just look up the Scott number on Ebay and drill down to FDC's. I usually find one or more of what I have.

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
25 May 2017
10:08:27pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I have the 2016 H.E. Harris US/BNA Catalog. It lists FDCs as both single and plate block. It also lists full sheets. I bought it at Hobby Lobby last year because I like that it's hard cover spiral bound and lays flat. I also like that the color stamp picture is directly above that stamp's entry, with the Scott number, instead of those numbers Scott uses on illustrations. I don't know how the values work out, I'd love to see it side by side with a Scott Specialized. With the Hobby Lobby 40% off coupon I believe I paid something like $15 for it.

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
25 May 2017
11:41:59pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Thank you all for your helpful responses.

Philatarium, I had no idea Scott used to publish a catalog exclusively for FDCs. I wonder if they quit doing this because they incorporated that information into the US Specialized catalog. Thanks for the eBay link. I did some more searching on eBay and found these out-of-date catalogs are being offered for over US$200 for the more recent editions to US$35 for very old editions. One seller is offering a 2008 edition for US$491. Surprise In the hope that this will be a useful reference, I bought a copy at a far more reasonable price--but still not cheap!

Webpaper, I use EZStamp software with up-to-date Scott identification and pricing, so I don't need a stamp catalog per se (although I know that, as Philatarium says, the Scott Specialized is a treasury of helpful information). I collect what I'll call "select" FDCs from 1929 to present as a side hobby to stamp collecting, but my collection is getting large enough that I need to inventory it. I am a member of the American First Day Cover Society and have found a wealth of information on FDCs and cachetmakers, but no handy and comprehensive list that would be useful for inventory entries. Thank you for the eBay drill-down suggestion. I will make use of that.

BenFranklin1902, I hadn't considered H.E. Harris. That sounds like a good alternative.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
26 May 2017
08:21:43am

Auctions

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

looks like 2009 is the final year Scott published Mellone's FDC catalogue. I found some on Amazon for significantly less than Doug's quoted prices, but more recent ones are still, ummmm, dear.

I think that Mellone and Scott had a falling out a decade ago over the usage of the Scott numbering system, if I recall.

Mellone still produces FDC catalogues, but they're no longer all encompassing; instead they focus on narrow areas.

I don't know Brookman for FDCs, but do for stamps, where i find it often values stamps significantly higher than Scott does, and, except for the choices stamps, Scott's pricing is generally high, so Brookman further distorts that. Don't know if that applies to FDCs.

The US Specialized lists US FDCs, but prices only the most common cachet and experience tells me THOSE prices are wildly inaccurate.

David

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
26 May 2017
10:38:58am

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

David, thanks for the tip about the Mellone catalogs. The AFDCS lists only five references for FDCs, one of which is "Mellone's Planty Photo Encyclopedia of Cacheted First Day Covers, multi-volume catalog of cachets, Michael A. Mellone, FDC Publishing Co." There are multiple volumes of this spanning the decades since 1925 (as well as the narrower topical catalogs you mention), but I also found a single, collected volume: First Day Cover Photo Encyclopedia of First Cachets Revealed 1925-2005.

Image Not Found

At 1,625 pages, it promises to be a useful visual identification reference. I also found this companion reference: Mellone's FDC Alphabetical Listing of First Cachets 1925-2005.

Image Not Found

It is intended to complement the FDC Photo Encyclopedia. I have purchased both. I'll post a review after I receive them.

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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
26 May 2017
11:26:54am

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I don't think either of them will give you enough information. Value is primarily in the cachet. Most catalogs don't get into the value of each cachet maker. The way I tell retail value is to go to Jim McClusker's website and search for catalog number. It is very rare that I don't find my cachet on his site. Remember the price is retail. If I find the item on Ebay for less, I will buy it there.

http://www.jamesmccusker.com/

Bob

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
26 May 2017
11:53:26am

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Bob,

I agree that these won't be very helpful in regard to pricing. My main intention for these is to help me with visual identification. I have to admit that I purchased many covers over the years with little regard at the time for the cachetmaker and other incidentals. For retail pricing, I will go to the McCusker site. Thanks for the suggestion.

--Doug

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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
26 May 2017
12:06:44pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I use it for identification too. Like I said, it is very rare that I don't find what I'm looking for on his site.

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tomiseksj

26 May 2017
02:32:22pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

I can't comment on Brookman but the Scott Specialized listing of FDCs only provides information on the stamp and official first day locations and not the various cachets associated with those stamps.

For that I'd recommend the series of Mellone's specialized cachet catalogs as pictured below as they provide images of many (but not all) of the printed or hand-drawn cachets associated with each stamp.

The listings can also function as a checklist and they provide relative valuation, albeit in 1984 prices, of the various cachets. "First cachets" are also noted.

Image Not Found

I bought a 2000 Scott FDC Catalogue & Checklist on ebay in the hope that it would provide more current information. I was quite disappointed when it arrived as it hardly showed any cachets.

For the stamp I collect, the Iwo Jima issue (Scott 929), the Mellone's Specialized shown above lists images of 61 different cachets...the 2000 Scott FDC Catalogue showed zero.

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
26 May 2017
03:29:22pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Thank you, Steve. You've confirmed my guess that the Scott FDC Catalog and Checklist wouldn't have many illustrations. I hope to use it for the ancillary information on issuance, etc., and perhaps as a handy want/check list for bourses. Based on what I've read, the comprehensive Mellone's FDC Photo Encyclopedia 1925-2005 that I ordered includes the volume you mention. I hope to use this as my visual guide. For current retail pricing, I intend to rely on the McCusker site and similar venues. I've ordered the Brookman 2017, too; let's see if that can add to the mix.

--Doug

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khj

26 May 2017
03:58:34pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

Mellone increased depth of the Scott FDC catalogue in the mid-2000s. You will find a pretty dramatic increase in price of the used catalogues because of this, although only the ones after mid-decade have the increased content. I don't remember what year he started making significant additions. The earlier ones can still be had for very cheap if you stay away from eBay. I purchased my 2001 about 5 years ago for $5 or less. However, as mentioned above, the earlier editions are basically checklists, with selected illustrations of some special cachets for pre-WWII covers, and sort of a generic premium pricing factor provided for some of the more popular premium cachet-makers.

You have to go to the subsequent multi-volume year range Mellone/Planty catalogues if you want to see the more unusual (limited production) cachets.

I agree that some of the pricing for the used Scott FDC catalogues are ridiculous. For some of those prices, you could actually get close to the whole set of the Mellone/Planty multi-volume catalogues!

Looking forward to reading your review of Mellone's First Cachet Encyclopedia/Reference, as I've not looked into either one before.

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BenFranklin1902

Tom in Exton, PA
26 May 2017
09:27:36pm

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

If anyone has the catalogue for first issues of cachet makers, Id like to see the listing for ODDITY Cachets... I produced those in the 1980s. I've seen my first cachet correctly identified on eBay.

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DouglasGPerry

APS Member #196859
05 Jun 2017
11:35:23am

re: Brookman vs Scott Specialized

"If anyone has the catalogue for first issues of cachet makers, Id like to see the listing for ODDITY Cachets... I produced those in the 1980s. I've seen my first cachet correctly identified on eBay."

Tom, Mellone's First Day Cover Alphabetical Listing of First Cachets, Ver. 1.1 lists the first Oddity cachet as being on an FDC for US Scott 1615 (Planty 1615-B), issued on April 23, 1976. This corresponds with the entry in Mellone's First Day Cover Photo Encyclopedia of First Cachets, p. 317.

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