Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Karl,
hardly a dumb question at all. it's actually an existential one.
as with so many answers, this starts with "it depends" too
as you suggest, one way would be the value of the stamps themselves. That works. although then one is dependent on another needing all six stamps on the cover; if not, one or more are not as valuable.
another is as FDCs. there, you'd need to find collectors interested in DDR FDCs. I've got one DDR collector in my local club. If you want, I can ask him if he's interested in DDR FDCs, and, if so, you guys can talk.
finally as postal artifacts. Typically FDCs are seen as collector items in themselves, and not as postal history (generally), but some of us value the cover for itself or some of its components: time, markings, stamps, politics, contents, and it goes on.
so, how's that for an answer.
I myself am more of a cover collector than a stamp collector, and I study rates and things that go wrong. I also really like Cinderallas, especially seals, on cover, and, in that, the rest of the value is immaterial compared to that aspect, mostly.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
eBay. Take a look and find the covers you own. Find a seller who is selling the same kind of material. Then look at this ended auctions / sales and that will give you an idea of what people actually paid. eBay asking prices are often useless since someone can ask what ever they wish, and those end without bids.
Login to Like
this post
My collections include not only single stamps; but also multiples and covers. In my opinion, the bigger pieces and the covers add interest to a collection. For example, I collect Newfoundland and the long Coronation set for George VI is of special interest. There are numerous varieties in the set itself and I don't yet have them all (one is a rarity and very expensive). But I also own blocks of the whole set and am trying to get them all on commercially used (non-philatelic) covers. Putting them all together in one album makes for an interesting display. I use a combination of Lighthouse mounts on grilled pages and Vario sheets for the larger items. Perhaps it's not as tidy as some collections I've seen but it works for me. The point is that covers are just as interesting as the stamps themselves and worthy of collection.
Login to Like
this post
karlfry:
The Scott's Specialized Catalogue for U.S. Stamps gives a value for stamps on cover (for what that is worth). Perhaps there is a similar catalogue for Germany? Just a thought. Somebody here may very well know.
Respectfully submitted:
jrc
Login to Like
this post
I am just going to write down a list of criteria in what I believe affect the value of the cover. Hopefully though it does give some insight into the idea of valuing covers.
- Stamp value (scarcity and condition)
- Postmark scarcity (DPO's, RPO's, special postmarks, etc)
- Route scarcity
- Rating scarcity
- Desirable markings
- Design of envelope (advertising/corner card/etc)
- Philatelic novelty/presentation (novelty covers, event covers, first day covers)
Of course this is my opinion and others may differ as to what the criteria should be.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Antonio,
good start.
in addition to stamp value, its use in period to pay intended rate. For some stamps, inc fairly recent, like the 29c new year of the boar, its effective period was like three days between its issuance and change of rate.
some rates are generally pretty rare, because the rate itself was short lived, like 18c first class and 12c post card, both less than a year. In that 18c rate, "You Can Beat Alcoholism" stamp was so mortifying, it just doesn't exist.
and some stamps just can't be found on cover, like some pre-sort first class stamps issued in gum.
Login to Like
this post
I think Smauggie's list is a good one. I would cite DATE in the postal mark bullet as important. Scott's specialty catalog does have many listings for stamps on cover with some selected entries for specialized uses.
I collect colonial Africa covers as a side highlight to my specialty stamps in that area. My primary quest is for covers (1) within the specific colony and (2) from one colony to another, but I also have those to the (3) home countries and (4) unusual international destinations. I prefer those covers with sending and receiving postal marks. The (1) & (2) covers are the hardest to locate due to the climate degradation impact on retention and less philatelic interest among colonists. The (3) group is the most common but offers many variations of transit, rates & category.
I generally value covers for my own inventory at specified catalog rate, stamp cat value plus minimum $5.00, or 3x catalog rate for classics.
The latter group applies to my Cape of Good Hope covers which are not addressed in Scott's. I mentioned this to the expert Sismondo at a show years ago and he just said they may get to it. The auction market for those items is fairly thin.
Login to Like
this post
I would like to also add that covers can also depend on popularity and demand as well. Some countries are more in demand and popularity than others, which could affect the pricing. However, since it is just a hobby, you collect what you want and whatever makes you happy. BTW - I do not know how to grade popularity factor anyway regarding covers lol.
Enjoy your covers. They sound interesting. I have a DDR stamp collection and prefer the earlier ones myself. Just my opinion of course.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
i often wonder how dealers value covers...i have seen the same early Dutch Indies postcard priced from 8 dollars to 40 dollars...i am in the game for 8 dollars but wonder how long the dealer with the 40 dollar pricetag will be holding his item.
Login to Like
this post
Other factors which affect the value of a cover…
Cover condition
Addressed or not addressed
Philatelic or not Philatelic
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
10:39:56pm
" ... Other factors which affect the value of a cover… .......
Philatelic or not Philatelic ..."
Are not FDCs by their nature, Philatelic, unless they went through the mail with some non-philatelic message contained with in ?
The original query was about East German FDCs.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Charlie,
yes, FDCs are philatelic, unless they are "accidental," as the earliest ones were and even some contemporary ones are. But those serviced or created as FDCs are philatelic.
The value of US FDCs is primarily in the cachet maker, secondarily the stamp, and also condition.
for DDR FDCs, I have no idea.
Login to Like
this post
11:04:56pm
I have an idea, but I'll keep it to myself lest someone think I am overly negative.
Login to Like
this post
There is valuation for re-sale purposes and then our own valuation for adding an item to our collection.
For re-sale, your best bet may be Ebay, if the item is fairly common.
My personal take on FDC-s is they are worth close to nothing to me. Still I have bought a limited number of them based on their overall appearance and the enjoyment I get looking at them.
I do not value them the same way as a postally used item. Generally speaking they are junk but the artwork on them may be worth the 50 cents sometimes.
Login to Like
this post
I too have often wondered how some dealers come to a price on a lot of covers. One thing though that comes to mind, but this regards Canadian covers only, was the publication "The Canadian Posted Letter Guide - The Classic Period 1851 1902" by Charles G. Firby and Victor L. Willson, published in 1996. This book list covers in the above years mentioned with different denomination combination etc. Informative book to say the least.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
I was thinking about this thread as I went through the eBay cover section in search of New Jersey postmarked covers...
I have bought large lots of first day covers, postcards and general covers and paid a penny, a nickel or a dime a cover. I love going through those boxes and seeing what I can add to my collections.
Those very same covers will be listed and sold on eBay for 50 cents, a dollar up to five dollars each. The only difference is that you are paying for that dealer's time in sorting it out, scanning the image and going through the eBay sales process for you. I have no problem paying someone for their time, as buying covers this way is entertainment. I have no illusion that I will resell that $5 cover for $5.
I came across a dealer who had over 1000 very old New Jersey covers for sale from $5 each all the way up to several hundred dollars each! As I went through his listings, I was trying to find the logic of his pricing. But I found the same cancellation priced at $5, then one at $7.50 and often another one at the $20 level. Some of these were from post offices still in business today, so they weren't rare offices someone would need to complete a county or state collection.
Then I looked at his high priced covers and found some he was asking $50-100 for were very much the same covers that I already have in my collection that I paid from ten cents up to $5 each. I resolved that I'd avoid buying his overpriced covers and would keep searching for the covers I need in my own price range.
I've also found that the dealers who list covers at higher prices are pretty much on a fishing expedition, trolling for suckers. I've found that those who have a "Make Offer" on their items, will readily discount down to 50% when offered a multi-cover deal. Then there are others who won't reply at all.
If this all makes any sense...
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
there are many reputable and helpful cover dealers out there. some charge more, some less. I have my favorites. Good ones will price with consistency.
I think the only way, as Tom suggests, is to become conversant with the types of covers one is buying.
In my early years, I'd buy anything, just trying to learn. I bought lots of stuff that looked rare (because it was new to me) only to find it was common as dirt. I've never regretted a single purchase, because while many of those covers have long since been discarded, the lessons and information I acquired have allowed me to learn immense amounts.
So, to get back to the DDR FDCs; what a wonderful door they've opened.
David
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
There is a convention for valuing standard postally used covers without any specialised postmarks or other abnormalities which add rarity or desirability.
For that you need a catalogue which values single stamps on cover ( I believe the standard is "Michel" ).
You take the highest single stamp on cover price - you then add the normal used price of all the other stamps - and that gives the "value" of the cover. Of course censorship marks, instructional markings, postage dues,unusual routes etc all add "value", and supply and demand rules. Generally First Day Covers do not command high prices unless they have some exceptional merit. When you talk East Germany, FDC s are much more common that commercial covers with commemorative stamps on.
The problem is that there are far fewer postal history collectors than stamp collectors, and hence postal history material seldom reaches the prices that stamps in similar quantity do. Many items are rare if not unique and often go for ridiculously low amounts. For example I have WW 1 picture postcards from France with UK military censor marks and Field Post Office postmarks bought for less than the second class domestic mail rate in the UK at the time when I bought them, and they are certainly much scarcer than a mint 2nd class stamp !
You should peruse Roy Lingen's site for rough values of everyday material, but be warned prices could be slightly higher or much lower than elsewhere, as pricing other than by real specialists is a very inexact science. Because Postal History collectors often have very narrow fields of interest ( and often are the only collectors of a particular field ) - prices are driven by demand rather than supply. If you collect very esoteric material prices will tend to be low - whereas well-trodden furrows ( like Zeppelins, for example ) prices will be high, even for material 100 times more common. Also quantities of items around are often unknown and so your "best guess" is as good as anyone elses. Roy sells a lot so he has historical knowledge of what he has sold before at how much and how sought after it was at the time and that "historical data" allows him to estimate what is a reasonable price to ask.
I have obtained good material cheaply from postcard dealers who base their prices on the "picture" side. If I see anything unusual on the address side, then it is 90% certain more valuable than the picture side only price. Regrettably now postcard dealers are starting to get wise !
Malcolm
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Most dealers use this device for accurate cover pricing
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Looks like Anna White - Vanna's sister
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Thanks all for the information. Seems like the longer you do something the more you can learn. My goal was just to have an amount for insurance and bragging rights "I own $$$$ worth of stamps and covers". No one in the family has any interest in stamps. So if I go before my wife look for a bargain on ebay! I can see it now 20 4 drawer file cabinets filed 
with "vintage" old school prepayment stickers! $100.00 or best offer!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
the old "When I die, please don't let my wife sell my collection for what I told her I paid for it!"
My wife appraises my collections, not in dollars, but in how many trash dumpsters it would fill!
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
02:42:12pm
" .... My wife appraises my collections, not in dollars, but in how many trash dumpsters it would fill!..."
One of the benefits of passing away is I will neither know, nor care much, about the number of trash cans my wife fills or who she gets to help her fill them.
Login to Like
this post
i'll pay shipping Charlie
Login to Like
this post
I have been collecting for many years but stamps only. I just won a huge lot of East German first day covers and other covers. I never in all my time collecting did anything with covers! How do I value them? What if a cover has more then 1 stamp? What if it has many stamps? I hope I don't sound stupid but I just never did much with covers. Any advice would be great!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
Karl,
hardly a dumb question at all. it's actually an existential one.
as with so many answers, this starts with "it depends" too
as you suggest, one way would be the value of the stamps themselves. That works. although then one is dependent on another needing all six stamps on the cover; if not, one or more are not as valuable.
another is as FDCs. there, you'd need to find collectors interested in DDR FDCs. I've got one DDR collector in my local club. If you want, I can ask him if he's interested in DDR FDCs, and, if so, you guys can talk.
finally as postal artifacts. Typically FDCs are seen as collector items in themselves, and not as postal history (generally), but some of us value the cover for itself or some of its components: time, markings, stamps, politics, contents, and it goes on.
so, how's that for an answer.
I myself am more of a cover collector than a stamp collector, and I study rates and things that go wrong. I also really like Cinderallas, especially seals, on cover, and, in that, the rest of the value is immaterial compared to that aspect, mostly.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
eBay. Take a look and find the covers you own. Find a seller who is selling the same kind of material. Then look at this ended auctions / sales and that will give you an idea of what people actually paid. eBay asking prices are often useless since someone can ask what ever they wish, and those end without bids.
Login to Like
this post
08:02:54am
re: How do you value covers???
My collections include not only single stamps; but also multiples and covers. In my opinion, the bigger pieces and the covers add interest to a collection. For example, I collect Newfoundland and the long Coronation set for George VI is of special interest. There are numerous varieties in the set itself and I don't yet have them all (one is a rarity and very expensive). But I also own blocks of the whole set and am trying to get them all on commercially used (non-philatelic) covers. Putting them all together in one album makes for an interesting display. I use a combination of Lighthouse mounts on grilled pages and Vario sheets for the larger items. Perhaps it's not as tidy as some collections I've seen but it works for me. The point is that covers are just as interesting as the stamps themselves and worthy of collection.
Login to Like
this post
08:57:22am
re: How do you value covers???
karlfry:
The Scott's Specialized Catalogue for U.S. Stamps gives a value for stamps on cover (for what that is worth). Perhaps there is a similar catalogue for Germany? Just a thought. Somebody here may very well know.
Respectfully submitted:
jrc
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
I am just going to write down a list of criteria in what I believe affect the value of the cover. Hopefully though it does give some insight into the idea of valuing covers.
- Stamp value (scarcity and condition)
- Postmark scarcity (DPO's, RPO's, special postmarks, etc)
- Route scarcity
- Rating scarcity
- Desirable markings
- Design of envelope (advertising/corner card/etc)
- Philatelic novelty/presentation (novelty covers, event covers, first day covers)
Of course this is my opinion and others may differ as to what the criteria should be.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
Antonio,
good start.
in addition to stamp value, its use in period to pay intended rate. For some stamps, inc fairly recent, like the 29c new year of the boar, its effective period was like three days between its issuance and change of rate.
some rates are generally pretty rare, because the rate itself was short lived, like 18c first class and 12c post card, both less than a year. In that 18c rate, "You Can Beat Alcoholism" stamp was so mortifying, it just doesn't exist.
and some stamps just can't be found on cover, like some pre-sort first class stamps issued in gum.
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
I think Smauggie's list is a good one. I would cite DATE in the postal mark bullet as important. Scott's specialty catalog does have many listings for stamps on cover with some selected entries for specialized uses.
I collect colonial Africa covers as a side highlight to my specialty stamps in that area. My primary quest is for covers (1) within the specific colony and (2) from one colony to another, but I also have those to the (3) home countries and (4) unusual international destinations. I prefer those covers with sending and receiving postal marks. The (1) & (2) covers are the hardest to locate due to the climate degradation impact on retention and less philatelic interest among colonists. The (3) group is the most common but offers many variations of transit, rates & category.
I generally value covers for my own inventory at specified catalog rate, stamp cat value plus minimum $5.00, or 3x catalog rate for classics.
The latter group applies to my Cape of Good Hope covers which are not addressed in Scott's. I mentioned this to the expert Sismondo at a show years ago and he just said they may get to it. The auction market for those items is fairly thin.
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
I would like to also add that covers can also depend on popularity and demand as well. Some countries are more in demand and popularity than others, which could affect the pricing. However, since it is just a hobby, you collect what you want and whatever makes you happy. BTW - I do not know how to grade popularity factor anyway regarding covers lol.
Enjoy your covers. They sound interesting. I have a DDR stamp collection and prefer the earlier ones myself. Just my opinion of course.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
Auctions
re: How do you value covers???
i often wonder how dealers value covers...i have seen the same early Dutch Indies postcard priced from 8 dollars to 40 dollars...i am in the game for 8 dollars but wonder how long the dealer with the 40 dollar pricetag will be holding his item.
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
Other factors which affect the value of a cover…
Cover condition
Addressed or not addressed
Philatelic or not Philatelic
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Dec 2017
10:39:56pm
re: How do you value covers???
" ... Other factors which affect the value of a cover… .......
Philatelic or not Philatelic ..."
Are not FDCs by their nature, Philatelic, unless they went through the mail with some non-philatelic message contained with in ?
The original query was about East German FDCs.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
Charlie,
yes, FDCs are philatelic, unless they are "accidental," as the earliest ones were and even some contemporary ones are. But those serviced or created as FDCs are philatelic.
The value of US FDCs is primarily in the cachet maker, secondarily the stamp, and also condition.
for DDR FDCs, I have no idea.
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
07 Dec 2017
11:04:56pm
re: How do you value covers???
I have an idea, but I'll keep it to myself lest someone think I am overly negative.
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
There is valuation for re-sale purposes and then our own valuation for adding an item to our collection.
For re-sale, your best bet may be Ebay, if the item is fairly common.
My personal take on FDC-s is they are worth close to nothing to me. Still I have bought a limited number of them based on their overall appearance and the enjoyment I get looking at them.
I do not value them the same way as a postally used item. Generally speaking they are junk but the artwork on them may be worth the 50 cents sometimes.
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
I too have often wondered how some dealers come to a price on a lot of covers. One thing though that comes to mind, but this regards Canadian covers only, was the publication "The Canadian Posted Letter Guide - The Classic Period 1851 1902" by Charles G. Firby and Victor L. Willson, published in 1996. This book list covers in the above years mentioned with different denomination combination etc. Informative book to say the least.
Chimo
Bujutsu
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
I was thinking about this thread as I went through the eBay cover section in search of New Jersey postmarked covers...
I have bought large lots of first day covers, postcards and general covers and paid a penny, a nickel or a dime a cover. I love going through those boxes and seeing what I can add to my collections.
Those very same covers will be listed and sold on eBay for 50 cents, a dollar up to five dollars each. The only difference is that you are paying for that dealer's time in sorting it out, scanning the image and going through the eBay sales process for you. I have no problem paying someone for their time, as buying covers this way is entertainment. I have no illusion that I will resell that $5 cover for $5.
I came across a dealer who had over 1000 very old New Jersey covers for sale from $5 each all the way up to several hundred dollars each! As I went through his listings, I was trying to find the logic of his pricing. But I found the same cancellation priced at $5, then one at $7.50 and often another one at the $20 level. Some of these were from post offices still in business today, so they weren't rare offices someone would need to complete a county or state collection.
Then I looked at his high priced covers and found some he was asking $50-100 for were very much the same covers that I already have in my collection that I paid from ten cents up to $5 each. I resolved that I'd avoid buying his overpriced covers and would keep searching for the covers I need in my own price range.
I've also found that the dealers who list covers at higher prices are pretty much on a fishing expedition, trolling for suckers. I've found that those who have a "Make Offer" on their items, will readily discount down to 50% when offered a multi-cover deal. Then there are others who won't reply at all.
If this all makes any sense...
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
there are many reputable and helpful cover dealers out there. some charge more, some less. I have my favorites. Good ones will price with consistency.
I think the only way, as Tom suggests, is to become conversant with the types of covers one is buying.
In my early years, I'd buy anything, just trying to learn. I bought lots of stuff that looked rare (because it was new to me) only to find it was common as dirt. I've never regretted a single purchase, because while many of those covers have long since been discarded, the lessons and information I acquired have allowed me to learn immense amounts.
So, to get back to the DDR FDCs; what a wonderful door they've opened.
David
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
10:27:12am
re: How do you value covers???
There is a convention for valuing standard postally used covers without any specialised postmarks or other abnormalities which add rarity or desirability.
For that you need a catalogue which values single stamps on cover ( I believe the standard is "Michel" ).
You take the highest single stamp on cover price - you then add the normal used price of all the other stamps - and that gives the "value" of the cover. Of course censorship marks, instructional markings, postage dues,unusual routes etc all add "value", and supply and demand rules. Generally First Day Covers do not command high prices unless they have some exceptional merit. When you talk East Germany, FDC s are much more common that commercial covers with commemorative stamps on.
The problem is that there are far fewer postal history collectors than stamp collectors, and hence postal history material seldom reaches the prices that stamps in similar quantity do. Many items are rare if not unique and often go for ridiculously low amounts. For example I have WW 1 picture postcards from France with UK military censor marks and Field Post Office postmarks bought for less than the second class domestic mail rate in the UK at the time when I bought them, and they are certainly much scarcer than a mint 2nd class stamp !
You should peruse Roy Lingen's site for rough values of everyday material, but be warned prices could be slightly higher or much lower than elsewhere, as pricing other than by real specialists is a very inexact science. Because Postal History collectors often have very narrow fields of interest ( and often are the only collectors of a particular field ) - prices are driven by demand rather than supply. If you collect very esoteric material prices will tend to be low - whereas well-trodden furrows ( like Zeppelins, for example ) prices will be high, even for material 100 times more common. Also quantities of items around are often unknown and so your "best guess" is as good as anyone elses. Roy sells a lot so he has historical knowledge of what he has sold before at how much and how sought after it was at the time and that "historical data" allows him to estimate what is a reasonable price to ask.
I have obtained good material cheaply from postcard dealers who base their prices on the "picture" side. If I see anything unusual on the address side, then it is 90% certain more valuable than the picture side only price. Regrettably now postcard dealers are starting to get wise !
Malcolm
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
Most dealers use this device for accurate cover pricing
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
Looks like Anna White - Vanna's sister
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
Thanks all for the information. Seems like the longer you do something the more you can learn. My goal was just to have an amount for insurance and bragging rights "I own $$$$ worth of stamps and covers". No one in the family has any interest in stamps. So if I go before my wife look for a bargain on ebay! I can see it now 20 4 drawer file cabinets filed with "vintage" old school prepayment stickers! $100.00 or best offer!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: How do you value covers???
the old "When I die, please don't let my wife sell my collection for what I told her I paid for it!"
My wife appraises my collections, not in dollars, but in how many trash dumpsters it would fill!
4 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Dec 2017
02:42:12pm
re: How do you value covers???
" .... My wife appraises my collections, not in dollars, but in how many trash dumpsters it would fill!..."
One of the benefits of passing away is I will neither know, nor care much, about the number of trash cans my wife fills or who she gets to help her fill them.
Login to Like
this post
re: How do you value covers???
i'll pay shipping Charlie
Login to Like
this post