"The huge district of Saxony was subdivided into the three Saxonys---Saxony PD Halle, East Saxony OPD Dresden and West Saxony OPD Leipzig. (OPD indicates Oberpostdirektion-Regional postal administration). Saxony got the postal system within its boundaries working in rudimentary fashion as early as mid-May by using remainder stocks of Third Reich stamps with ink blots covering their pictures and the inscription Third Reich. The obliterations were preformed with various devices such as corks, pencil erasers, thumbs, etc. Some individual post offices within the district produced their own unique designs such as stars, bars and different sized circles cut into corks or rubber objects. These overprints were sanctioned by district postal officials for use from May 12, 1945 until August 8, 1945. The last date for usage of ink obliterations was slow in getting to the far reaches of the district and usage was condoned for another week or more. "
ebay.de search Schwärzung
https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_ipg=200&_nkw=Schw%C3%A4rzung&_sop=3
Thanks for that link, Mack - there are certainly a lot of these obliterations available used on cover - which shows that at least some of them served a purpose other than lining the pockets of counterfeiters!
I was also looking for a written source - a book or more probably article by someone who could give an authoritative overview of these curious and short-lived stamp issues. If anyone knows of any such, do post!
http://www.china-philately.com/
3 books listed
http://www.briefmarken-forum.com/t3931-deutsche-lokalausgaben-nach-1945
discussions ...
https://colnect.com/en/stamps/series/country/23384-Germany_Local_Post
lookups ...
Nothing in English, then, I fear.
I checked the introduction to the Lokalausgaben in Michel Deutschland-Spezial vol.2, scanning the page, running Free OCR, putting in all the umlauts which my scanner does not recognise, and using automatic translation - a lengthy process! However, all I found was that Michel is more concerned with when these issues ceased to have validity than how and where they came from in the first place.
Michel cites its source as three articles in the German journal Philatelie, which I suspect may not get me much further, even if somehow I were able to get translations of these.
The books listed in the China-philately webpage would all appear to be catalogues. It is possible that they would contain general information, but again lack of immediate availability (physically, on the internet or in translation) rules them out.
A responder to the same query on another website directs me to the library of the German Philatelic Society, which is logical but, for the purpose for which I need the information (just a few lines at the top of my album page) neither practical nor proportionate.
Thank you, anyway, for taking the trouble to help me out!
Perhaps I'm asking for the moon when I should settle for the stars...
Well - that was a good find, phos45! (Preprinted album pages for what looks like a fairly comprehensive set of Lokalausgaben - and at a reasonable price, too.) I ordered one up, if only because it looks like an easier reference tool than the tightly printed and foreign-language pages of the Deutschland-Spezial.
From another site I have been given a reference to a couple of books in German which may very well answer the questions I have - but, again, would not be worth looking up as I never learned German.
I wonder how many of us are denied the information we need because of our lack of language? The UK is well-known for its poor education in foreign languages and I don't suppose it's much better in the USA. I believe some of the Michel catalogues are available in English, but I am not sure which, nor do I have any. Gibbons, of course, avoids all mention of these local stamps.
Google Translate to the rescue!
I use this very frequently to understand the industry names of foreign senders of covers...
You can cut and paste text into the translator, which is extremely helpful.
I've done some Vietnamese and Cyrillic 'by hand', and it is a very tedious process to figure out exactly which character to peck in. Thankfully, you can call up a special keyboard for those tough alphabets.
I spent some time yesterday trying to figure out how to cut text out of a googlebook (in German). Never did have success. They make it difficult. If I did a "Select All", and then pasted that, all I got was the page template, none of the content. Maybe, if I took the time to sort through the "Page Source", I might be able to lift it out of there, but I gave up.
download and install chrome browser, then set to autotranslate -
surfs up !
I always use Chrome and I agree, it's very easy just to right click and select "Translate to English".
Very easy, if the text you want is online. But is it? Not always.
Well I guess the nest step is to use OCR software to create a document that Chrome could translate for you.
I don't have an OCR package but I see they are now quite cheap.
The latest English language version of the Michel Specialized catalog says
State of Saxony
Provisional Use of Invalid Stamps, the so called “Saxon Obliterations”
Postal service was suspended following occupation, though in some places not until a few weeks later. Resumption began in the OPD Dresden district on May 23, 1945. In the RPD Chemnitz postal service was generally not interrupted by Soviet occupation. The relevant decrees stated that until new stamps could be issued, stamps of the German Reich still valid on May 8. 1945 could continue to be used, however the head and national socialist symbols depicted on them had to he rendered unrecognizable. but the postage value had to remain legible. The decrees were also valid in the Soviet occupied parts of the RPD Leipzig that were administered from Chemnitz and Dresden because Leipzig was initially occupied bv the Americans.
The post offices had to carry out this obliteration (of the heads and national socialist symbols on the stamps) before the stamps could be sold. Stamps in the hands of the public could be “blacked out" by postal customers themselves before posting mail. The form and how the obliteration should be carried out was not specified: so there were overprints, hand stamped overprints with cork, rubber or other hand stamps, smearing (even finger prints), painting over and glued on bits of paper.
The only stamps that mey be regarded as coming under "Provisional Use of Invalid Stamps" (Saxon Obliterations) were those used as postage following occupation. Under no circumstances should they be confused with items mailed before occupation but only delivered after occupation (so called roiled over (covers)). These could have originated from any part of the German Reich (ïncluding the Protectorate of Bohemia and Mahren ae well as the General Gouvernement (Poland)); the stamps on these rolled over covers were often rendered unrecognizable (bv the allied military) before they were delivered.
The “Saxon Obliterations" cannot he regarded as independent local issues. The exceptions are the issues from post offices that carried out the decrees of the OPD rather freely or were temporarily cut off from their superiors. To be regarded as local issues, the overprinted obliterations must have individually identifiable characteristics that cannot be confused with others.
Theoretically all German Reich stamps valid on May B, 1945 could have had obliterating overprints placed on them. However, following cataloged Stamps are the only ones that have appeared to date. To avoid having to renumber the cataloged material in the event obliterated stamps not previously seen appear, the MICHEL-Numbers of the German Reich stamps are used with pre?x AP (= Aufbrauchs-Provisorium) (= Provisional use of invalid Stamps)
Would REALLY love to see an image of one of those "rolled over" covers posted here...
-Paul
C'mon guys, cough up the visuals!
Here's my contribution to this thread:
Looks like a complete set of obliterated Hitler heads, offered up for favor cancellations in Chemnitz, July 31, 1945.
Not mine, but might be in a few days.
Comments?
-Paul
I believe this is an example of a rolled over cover.
Cover was sent via registered mail, franked with the Hitler head created in the late fall of the previous year, postmarked in Coburg on April 7, 1945. It was caught up in the Allied offensive into Germany and censored by same before it was presumably delivered. Unfortunately, there is no receiving cds so that we would know how long it was held by the Allies.
Bruce
Thanks, Bruce,
Very interesting!
So, the indicators of a "rolled cover" would be domestic usage in late WWII, censored by an Allied entity ("Civil Mails"), and ideally with a receiver cancellation after May 7, 1945?
Sounds like a fun collecting area!
-Paul
Intriguing letter.
Coburg was taken by the American forces on 11 April 1945, only 4 days after this letter was cancelled. It is a bit strange, because the letter is addressed to the "Heeresstandortgebührnisstelle" (beautiful word. I do not fully understand what it is, but it has something to do with fees) in Baden-Baden, which was probably taken by American or French troops before Coburg. I could not find the exact date, but it must have been in March.
So someone writes a registered letter to a German bureaucratic office in a part of the country that has been occupied by the enemy (from a German point of view). Perhaps he or she thought that since Coburg was about to fall, it could/would be delivered by the occupying forces? On the other hand, why bother? All German official services were about to end, or had stopped to function already...
"Heeresstandortgebührnisstelle"
Hello All,
Crazy times is another explanation for the posting of the cover.
Bruce
Guthrum,
If you really want books about this it is said to say that most or maybe every book is in the german language.
https://www.philabooks.com/pages/detail.asp?L=LI&Kat=6&Kat1=2834&ID=40868&UK=1
and
https://www.philabooks.com/pages/detail.asp?L=LI&Kat=6&Kat1=2834&ID=45273&UK=1
are the best so far.
I am afraid this is a bit too late for Ian/Guthrum as he passed away earlier this year. The information will surely be of use to the many others interested in the subject.
Best regards Jan-Simon
post from stampboards ...
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16899&p=6160357&hilit=fakes#p6160357
"I am afraid this is a bit too late for Ian/Guthrum as he passed away earlier this year. The information will surely be of use to the many others interested in the subject.
Best regards Jan-Simon "
no problem, how could you have known this?
Can anyone direct me to an authoritative source on the production of the 1945 Hitler head obliterations?
Having given up acquiring any more of these, I am writing up a few pages in my album and would like to mention something more specific than "lots of these were produced and many of them were counterfeited, etc., etc.".
Gilhousen and Anders' 155-page "GERMAN PHILATELIC HISTORY FROM THE END OF WORLD WAR II UNTIL THE 1950s" (available at www.germanyphilatelicsocietyusa.org/chapters/tc/articles/history.pdf)
has surprisingly little. For example,
"The huge district of Saxony was subdivided into the three Saxonys---Saxony PD Halle, East Saxony OPD Dresden and West Saxony OPD Leipzig. (OPD indicates Oberpostdirektion-Regional postal administration). Saxony got the postal system within its boundaries working in rudimentary fashion as early as mid-May by using remainder stocks of Third Reich stamps with ink blots covering their pictures and the inscription Third Reich. The obliterations were preformed with various devices such as corks, pencil erasers, thumbs, etc. Some individual post offices within the district produced their own unique designs such as stars, bars and different sized circles cut into corks or rubber objects. These overprints were sanctioned by district postal officials for use from May 12, 1945 until August 8, 1945. The last date for usage of ink obliterations was slow in getting to the far reaches of the district and usage was condoned for another week or more. "
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
ebay.de search Schwärzung
https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_ipg=200&_nkw=Schw%C3%A4rzung&_sop=3
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Thanks for that link, Mack - there are certainly a lot of these obliterations available used on cover - which shows that at least some of them served a purpose other than lining the pockets of counterfeiters!
I was also looking for a written source - a book or more probably article by someone who could give an authoritative overview of these curious and short-lived stamp issues. If anyone knows of any such, do post!
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
http://www.china-philately.com/
3 books listed
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
http://www.briefmarken-forum.com/t3931-deutsche-lokalausgaben-nach-1945
discussions ...
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
https://colnect.com/en/stamps/series/country/23384-Germany_Local_Post
lookups ...
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Nothing in English, then, I fear.
I checked the introduction to the Lokalausgaben in Michel Deutschland-Spezial vol.2, scanning the page, running Free OCR, putting in all the umlauts which my scanner does not recognise, and using automatic translation - a lengthy process! However, all I found was that Michel is more concerned with when these issues ceased to have validity than how and where they came from in the first place.
Michel cites its source as three articles in the German journal Philatelie, which I suspect may not get me much further, even if somehow I were able to get translations of these.
The books listed in the China-philately webpage would all appear to be catalogues. It is possible that they would contain general information, but again lack of immediate availability (physically, on the internet or in translation) rules them out.
A responder to the same query on another website directs me to the library of the German Philatelic Society, which is logical but, for the purpose for which I need the information (just a few lines at the top of my album page) neither practical nor proportionate.
Thank you, anyway, for taking the trouble to help me out!
Perhaps I'm asking for the moon when I should settle for the stars...
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Well - that was a good find, phos45! (Preprinted album pages for what looks like a fairly comprehensive set of Lokalausgaben - and at a reasonable price, too.) I ordered one up, if only because it looks like an easier reference tool than the tightly printed and foreign-language pages of the Deutschland-Spezial.
From another site I have been given a reference to a couple of books in German which may very well answer the questions I have - but, again, would not be worth looking up as I never learned German.
I wonder how many of us are denied the information we need because of our lack of language? The UK is well-known for its poor education in foreign languages and I don't suppose it's much better in the USA. I believe some of the Michel catalogues are available in English, but I am not sure which, nor do I have any. Gibbons, of course, avoids all mention of these local stamps.
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Google Translate to the rescue!
I use this very frequently to understand the industry names of foreign senders of covers...
You can cut and paste text into the translator, which is extremely helpful.
I've done some Vietnamese and Cyrillic 'by hand', and it is a very tedious process to figure out exactly which character to peck in. Thankfully, you can call up a special keyboard for those tough alphabets.
I spent some time yesterday trying to figure out how to cut text out of a googlebook (in German). Never did have success. They make it difficult. If I did a "Select All", and then pasted that, all I got was the page template, none of the content. Maybe, if I took the time to sort through the "Page Source", I might be able to lift it out of there, but I gave up.
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
download and install chrome browser, then set to autotranslate -
surfs up !
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
I always use Chrome and I agree, it's very easy just to right click and select "Translate to English".
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Very easy, if the text you want is online. But is it? Not always.
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Well I guess the nest step is to use OCR software to create a document that Chrome could translate for you.
I don't have an OCR package but I see they are now quite cheap.
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
The latest English language version of the Michel Specialized catalog says
State of Saxony
Provisional Use of Invalid Stamps, the so called “Saxon Obliterations”
Postal service was suspended following occupation, though in some places not until a few weeks later. Resumption began in the OPD Dresden district on May 23, 1945. In the RPD Chemnitz postal service was generally not interrupted by Soviet occupation. The relevant decrees stated that until new stamps could be issued, stamps of the German Reich still valid on May 8. 1945 could continue to be used, however the head and national socialist symbols depicted on them had to he rendered unrecognizable. but the postage value had to remain legible. The decrees were also valid in the Soviet occupied parts of the RPD Leipzig that were administered from Chemnitz and Dresden because Leipzig was initially occupied bv the Americans.
The post offices had to carry out this obliteration (of the heads and national socialist symbols on the stamps) before the stamps could be sold. Stamps in the hands of the public could be “blacked out" by postal customers themselves before posting mail. The form and how the obliteration should be carried out was not specified: so there were overprints, hand stamped overprints with cork, rubber or other hand stamps, smearing (even finger prints), painting over and glued on bits of paper.
The only stamps that mey be regarded as coming under "Provisional Use of Invalid Stamps" (Saxon Obliterations) were those used as postage following occupation. Under no circumstances should they be confused with items mailed before occupation but only delivered after occupation (so called roiled over (covers)). These could have originated from any part of the German Reich (ïncluding the Protectorate of Bohemia and Mahren ae well as the General Gouvernement (Poland)); the stamps on these rolled over covers were often rendered unrecognizable (bv the allied military) before they were delivered.
The “Saxon Obliterations" cannot he regarded as independent local issues. The exceptions are the issues from post offices that carried out the decrees of the OPD rather freely or were temporarily cut off from their superiors. To be regarded as local issues, the overprinted obliterations must have individually identifiable characteristics that cannot be confused with others.
Theoretically all German Reich stamps valid on May B, 1945 could have had obliterating overprints placed on them. However, following cataloged Stamps are the only ones that have appeared to date. To avoid having to renumber the cataloged material in the event obliterated stamps not previously seen appear, the MICHEL-Numbers of the German Reich stamps are used with pre?x AP (= Aufbrauchs-Provisorium) (= Provisional use of invalid Stamps)
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Would REALLY love to see an image of one of those "rolled over" covers posted here...
-Paul
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
C'mon guys, cough up the visuals!
Here's my contribution to this thread:
Looks like a complete set of obliterated Hitler heads, offered up for favor cancellations in Chemnitz, July 31, 1945.
Not mine, but might be in a few days.
Comments?
-Paul
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
I believe this is an example of a rolled over cover.
Cover was sent via registered mail, franked with the Hitler head created in the late fall of the previous year, postmarked in Coburg on April 7, 1945. It was caught up in the Allied offensive into Germany and censored by same before it was presumably delivered. Unfortunately, there is no receiving cds so that we would know how long it was held by the Allies.
Bruce
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Thanks, Bruce,
Very interesting!
So, the indicators of a "rolled cover" would be domestic usage in late WWII, censored by an Allied entity ("Civil Mails"), and ideally with a receiver cancellation after May 7, 1945?
Sounds like a fun collecting area!
-Paul
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Intriguing letter.
Coburg was taken by the American forces on 11 April 1945, only 4 days after this letter was cancelled. It is a bit strange, because the letter is addressed to the "Heeresstandortgebührnisstelle" (beautiful word. I do not fully understand what it is, but it has something to do with fees) in Baden-Baden, which was probably taken by American or French troops before Coburg. I could not find the exact date, but it must have been in March.
So someone writes a registered letter to a German bureaucratic office in a part of the country that has been occupied by the enemy (from a German point of view). Perhaps he or she thought that since Coburg was about to fall, it could/would be delivered by the occupying forces? On the other hand, why bother? All German official services were about to end, or had stopped to function already...
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
"Heeresstandortgebührnisstelle"
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Hello All,
Crazy times is another explanation for the posting of the cover.
Bruce
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
Guthrum,
If you really want books about this it is said to say that most or maybe every book is in the german language.
https://www.philabooks.com/pages/detail.asp?L=LI&Kat=6&Kat1=2834&ID=40868&UK=1
and
https://www.philabooks.com/pages/detail.asp?L=LI&Kat=6&Kat1=2834&ID=45273&UK=1
are the best so far.
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
I am afraid this is a bit too late for Ian/Guthrum as he passed away earlier this year. The information will surely be of use to the many others interested in the subject.
Best regards Jan-Simon
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
post from stampboards ...
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16899&p=6160357&hilit=fakes#p6160357
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
"I am afraid this is a bit too late for Ian/Guthrum as he passed away earlier this year. The information will surely be of use to the many others interested in the subject.
Best regards Jan-Simon "
re: Source Material for Hitler Head obliterations
no problem, how could you have known this?