Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
As mentioned in previous posts, I'm a bit new to collecting.
I have several great books for indentifying US stamps and of course I have the internet.
I have recently been using two websites called StampWorld and Stamp Collecting World to identify my non-US stamps.
That said, now two questions:
1) What are other websites that people like for identifying non-US stamps?
2) Are there any good books out there that are "somewhat" affordable? Or maybe that is impractical because the subject matter is so massive, not sure?
Thanks!
JR
Login to Like
this post
JR
for an American, the best way is to use a Scott catalogue. You can buy older sets cheap. I've seen older ones go begging here. often it's the postage, not the purchase price, that's hefty, but that's a good way to get high donomination stamps
IF you're gonna collect world wide, get a full set. If country-specific, get the one(s) that correspond to it
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi AMSD,
Would you recommend the Scott catalog vs "some great website".
In other words, is the Scott catalog just that good, or would that kind of content now be available on a website, even if it was a website that required a paid subscription to access it?
Thanks,
JR
Login to Like
this post
JR,
I don't think you'll EVER hear any of us say Scott is THAT GOOD. It's decent, and fairly comperhensive (but hardly exhaustive).
its value is more that everyone in the US uses it, so when you say Iraq 357, everyone knows what you mean.
I don't use websites to ID stamps; someone else will need to comment here. If it is a website, make suer they use Scott numbering.
If you were in UK, I'd recommend SG instead, for the same reason of common nomenclature.
David
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi David,
Thanks for the advice!
I found a used edition of a Scotts catalog from 2013 to try out.
It covers countries "C-F".
At $6 used, the price was quite right.
JR
Login to Like
this post
You may find Scott Catalog in your local public library. Some libraries will allow you to borrow copies.
I use the website https://colnect.com only to get the year of issue of a stamp that I can not find in Scott. Colnect does no list Scott catalog numbers.
Doug
Login to Like
this post
I have used Stampworld and while it does not have Scott numbers you at least can get to the issue time to find it in Scott.
Login to Like
this post
Note that there is no free lunch. Some of the sites mentioned in this thread do some things which I consider unethical. For example, selling your email address to others.
Very few people are going to invest in big, expensive sites without some kind of commercial gain.
If you are going to allow these sites to harvest and use your personal information, you need to establish online presence which hides your real identity.
Don
Login to Like
this post
As much as I go out of my way to acquire & enjoy print reference materials, I have a three-step process for identifying stamps:
1) If I've got no idea of the country-of-origin, I consult a spreadsheet I've been building over the years with key terms found on stamps & coins (eg, the name of the country, the name of its currency, etc) in their respective native alphabets. The more fonts I use, the slower it loads, but that's just gives me a moment to think about how clever it was of me to build that spreadsheet in the first place.
2) https://www.stampworld.com/ ... I enjoy paging down to find a stamp & its year-of-issue more than I enjoy turning paper pages.
3) https://colnect.com/en/stamps/countries ... I then find the stamp on Colnect, where I enjoy the details they offer, and their useful cross-referencing to similar designs.
I've also found Colnect to be quick to accept & acknowledge my suggested edits & corrections, which feels pretty good.
If I've ever gotten third-party junk mail from using either site, I've never figured that out. However, if you're worried about that, create extra eMail accounts (gMail, Yahoo, as you prefer), set them to forward all mail to your core account, and identify the guilty party in a New York Minute.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
Hi ikey,
Colnect spammed many philatelic and other hobby forums for months and months. They went out of their way to by-pass the safe guards that stamp forum owners put in place so they could continue to spam and redirect traffic to their own site. It sucks to invested your time and money in building a website like this community only to have others come in and steal your traffic. It’s lame.
Stampworld harvests email addresses and reserves the right to sell your information to third parties (it is in their own T&Cs and Privacy policy. Like you mention, folks should setup fake email accounts and not hand over your real email address to people who will profit on it.
Don
Login to Like
this post
Don,
I understand your concern but giving an email address to almost anyone invites a risk. I I do use multiple email addresses myself and have not seen any usual change in email. Google mail seems to do an excellent job screening spam and suspicious emails. But can we trust Google?
I did sign up at Col-nect and do get an occasional email asking me to complete my collection but nothing other than that.
The enemy is closer than you think. Look at what Facebook has done. Privacy rules are a joke even for countries in US. They do not have to be in Belize.
Al
Login to Like
this post
Al,
Everyone loves to hate eBay, but Google makes eBay look like child’s play. Google and Amazon now dominate online commerce and I see no change moving forward. Want a Google free app? Sure, as long as you do not mind them monitoring your daily physical locations. Use Google as your search engine? Sure, as long as you do not mind them monitoring every website you visit and then selling that info to others. (I use and recommend DuckDuckGo https://duckduckgo.com/ as a search engine which does not track you.)
I believe that online stamp collectors are a umm… ‘thrifty’ group of folks. They are moving away from paying dues and attending shows and interfacing with the hobby they enjoy online. A part of this migration is that they are finding similar value online and using that saved money to buy more stamps and covers. Additionally, I think that some stamp folks are not technology-centric.
So when I see threads that recommend people use these commercial sites that ‘appear’ free, it is important to remind them that they are not free at all. A few months ago we had a thread which mentioned a site which you could identify if your name was floating around on the ‘dark web’. It freaked some folks out because their email addresses would popup on this tool. The sites mentioned in this thread would be likely causes of having your email added to paid-for mailing lists (whether or not you have seen any spam).
Don
Login to Like
this post
Don,
We are closer to the "Matrix" everyday where we are just "food" (money) sources like cattle.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi Rockets;
Here is one from the International Society of World Wide Stamp Collectors;
http://www.iswsc.org/iswsc_identifier.html
and another from Stamp Master Album;
http://www.stampmasteralbum.com/ForeignCountryIdentifierHome.htm
and yet another from stamp finder on line;
http://stampfinderonline.com/identify.asp
They are only good for identifying the nation that issued the stamp, but are much faster than searching thru several thick catalogs. They include many non-roman alphabets like cyrilic, old Armenian and others as well.
They also include overprints that can change the stamps location as in occupations and other things like post offices abroad, located in another country.
Then as AMSD suggested, grab your inexpensive older Scott catalogs and look up that nation and find your stamp.
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
PS; I'm just another Michigander too, up here in trout and black bear country in Baldwin, Lake County.
PPS; If you can find one of these on eBay used snap it up fast: "Linn's World Stamp Almanac". Mine is 1980 edition by Amos press, and it has a great foreign stamp identifier included, plus tons of great articles and useful reference material. I don't think they publish these anymore tho...
Login to Like
this post
Don,
I think that it is a little unfair of you to single out Colnect and Stampworld for harvesting or potentiality harvesting and selling email addresses. I have no experience of Stampworld, but I did sign up for Colnect a few months ago and am absolutely sure that other than receiving the occasional email reminder that I haven't visited for awhile, I have not received a single spam email that could be traced back to them. And to warn that they may sell email addresses in the future is a warning that could in fact apply to almost every web site on the internet.
As for Colnect spamming forums for months, that may or may not be true, but as I have not personally seen any evidence thereof, and as you are probably aware I too have suffered similar unwarranted accusations by a particular forum owner who also mistakenly accused me of being banned from multiple forums as a spammer, my tendency would be to give Colnect the benefit of the doubt, especially as even if it had been an issue in the past, this no longer appears to be true. Surely a life sentence is a little harsh?
On the other hand Colnect is a very useful resource. About the only downside I see is their inability to include Scott numbers as a result of the Scott licensing restrictions. Also they do have a revenue stream in the form of optional paid premium membership, although whether they have enough paid members to support them, only they can know.
Clive
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
i have a 2006 US specialized Scott catalogue you can have for the cost of postage
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
TuskenRaider,
FYI, the International Society of World Wide Stamp Collectors identifier is an older version. A more updated version is the PopUp World Stamp Finder on Stamp Smarter (located at bottom of every page). http://stampsmarter.com/
The Stamp Smarter used the ISWWSC data as its foundation but added 1000+ additional stamps, added images for many of the stamps, and added a 'popup keyboard' for the universal keyword search.
The 'popup keyboard' is critical for this kind of online tool. Why? Because often the hard to find stamps are those which do not use Anglo character. Since computer operating systems and key boards typically only support one language mapping, just trying to type a Cyrillic or Asian character is nearly impossible. So having a pop-up keyboard is required if the user wants to search using the characters they see on a stamp.
I also donated the this identifier code and data to APS, they also have it implemented on their site at http://countryid.stamps.org/. It also has all the updates.
Don
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Clive,
I am stating my experiences and opinion; folks can form their own opinions. But the key in any decision making process is to be informed. I was simply trying to present a full picture of using some of these 'free' commercial sites.
Are you saying that I should not be posting my opinion? I do not think I singled out or suggested in any way that others boycott these sites.
I am unsure what you mean by a 'life sentence'. I make decisions based upon my experience, if someone behaves in a way that I deem unethical they lose my respect. I suppose that if one of these commercial sites suddenly became open source and/or otherwise demonstrated some significant empathy I would revisit my opinion. I stand by my opinion that there is no free lunch and that these sites are profiting in ways that are probably not apparent to many stamp collectors. I also stand by my opinion that everyone should have the most information at hand when making decisions.
Don
Edit: Regarding your falling out with Bobby, you are spinning a bit what actually happened. I think that the misunderstanding could have been resolved but clearly you felt slighted and did not want to. I understand the situation, Bobby is just as firm in his convictions as you are. It think this is a shame and wish you two would have been able to work something out.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
As a starting point, I highly recommend a copy of Linn's Stamp Identifier edited by Donna O'Keefe and Rick Miller. It has an alphabetical listing of stamp inscriptions, the various alphabets, i.e. Greek and Cyrillic, difficult to identify stamps and pictures of hard to ID stamps. If you can not ID the stamp using this little book, then look on the internet. Otherwise ask on SOR, someone will know the answer.
As Tuskin would say, just my 2 cents worth.
Mel
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Hi Everyone;
Thanks Don for the updated info on the International Society of World Wide Stamp Collectors identifier. I was not aware of all the new tools, and the keyboard sounds absolutely amazing.
I'll add those links to my bookmarks right away. As long as I have collected, I still have trouble with some country IDs.
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
Login to Like
this post
Don,
Thanks for the response - of course you, like all of us, are each entitled to our opinion and to share it within the limits of civil discourse. What I meant by a "life sentence" is that any bad behaviour on the part of Colnect seems to now be a thing of the past. Surely it is time to give them another chance.
Regarding Bobby, I don't want to get into it too much here, it isn't fair to him nor to the members of this forum, so I regret having brought it up in the first place, but I sometimes wonder if he hadn't perhaps mistaken me for someone else. I still visit his forum regularly and post there occasionally, but rarely anything to do with AlbumEasy.
Clive
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Re Colnect. I noticed that several posters on this thread mentioned that Colnect does not have Scott numbers in their catalog. However, if you look, they use the term "Sn" and what follows is indeed a Scott number. This is mainly in the pre-2000 issues. Being Europe-based, Colnect tends to use Michel numbers as their main numbering system for member submissions of issues. If a Scott, Stanley Gibbons or Y &T number is also submitted or supplied via an update, then it appears in the catalog also.
Mike / meostamps
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I use colnect and stampworld and numerous other sites. My info. may be being harvested but I have to say that I receive virtually NO spam as a result.
Obviously I ( and everyone else ) may be the target of spammers, but so far I have had no ill-effects - and nor, on a different subject have I had any of my bank accounts compromised via the internet - although I have had my card cloned "out in the field" ( the banks spotted it immediately - they are good at that !).
However having said all that, I do not purchase much via the internet and then only from sites that I believe are safe, and I don't do facebook or twitter and the like, or send selfies on the mobile.
I believe that the biggest threat to your security comes from those who are able to harvest bits of data from multiple sources and channels, and fit them together to make a big picture.
It is obvious that we all have to be careful, but we shouldn't get paranoid either - and we have to accept that absolute privacy in the digital age is not posssible. Things that you really want to keep private( or are possibly compromising) should not go anywhere near any computer, whatsoever.
Login to Like
this post
Although some make themselves easier targets than others, we know with Equifax, US government personnel files, etc. you have no opportunity to prevent that. You could be offline almost completely and still exposed.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Has anyone been watching this latest situation with FaceBook? We have to understand that we are a ‘product’ to most online websites. Many of them are ‘seeders’. In other words, it is not as simple as ‘I didn’t get any spam from XYZ so it must be ok’. Just like this current Facebook cluster, there are multiple levels to this problem.
Even if you turn off sending your personal information to Facebook, they still know who you are friended with. And if your friends also do not turn off sending their personal data collection, FaceBook ends up still collecting data on you. And of course Facebook is also facing heat because, for a fee, they allowed access to our personal data by a ‘partner’, who in turn used it in their app. Their app appended additional data to the original FB data and then they turned around and sold it to one of their ‘partners’. Now Facebook’s defense is, ‘gee, we didn’t know’.
It has now gotten to the point were if your have a smart phone and walk into a bakery, by the time you walk out with your donut your phone will be sending you ads for the coffee shop 3 doors down, assuming that you will want something to go with that donut you just purchased.
I am not some paranoid, conspiracy nut job. I am a person who advocates technology and has been involved in developing much of this data collecting technology since the 1990s. But anyone with an IQ over 75 knows to ‘follow the money’. Facebook is not ‘free’. The sites mentioned in this thread are not ‘free’. Our data is a product to them and they sell that product. Do people really think that these companies are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars developing and maintaining these sites out of the goodness of their hearts?
When I first became involved with data collecting technologies, it was in the grocery store environment. Frankly I liked what we were developing, if I do not have dentures then I do not need to have denture cream ads being sent to me. And as a guy, I certainly do not need to see ads for feminine products. But the level of sophistication has exploded over the last decade and we all should be aware that our data has value and these sites will do whatever they need to do to make money on us.
Don
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Hi All
is it acceptable here to mention a commercial product for identifying stamps. I am the developer & sell the product. I will not try to directly make a sales pitch. Just want people to know that there is technology out there than can successfully identify stamps form an image
Marios
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
yes, it's OK.
and, ummm, I think you kinda already did.
if it gets salesy, you'll hear about it
Login to Like
this post
A good software inventory program (StampManage by Paul D, EzStamp by Marios T.) can be used as an identifier as well when they have images for a majority of the issues and tied to Scott numbers. For StampWorld will get you the year with an image but then you have to use a catalogue to get the catalogue number.
Login to Like
this post
Are there any native MAC inventory programs that do not require a PC emulator?
Dennis
Login to Like
this post
Hi All,
One of the ways I use all the time to ID stamps other than US & Canada is through stamp recognition software (SRS). I am the developer & I do sell SRS.
But this is not a sales pitch. It's to let people know that tools do exist & have existed for a very long time (since 2003).
SRS can identify almost any face different stamp in under 1 second. It cannot uniquely identify stamps with perf varieties, watermark varieties, fly speck varieties (ie broken toga rope on US stamps ) or minor shade varieties (rose, rose red, red rose, car, car red etc), but it can pull up all the varieties to show you they exist & then you can determine what you have. There are many videos of SRS in action. If you have any questions, send me a private email so as not to clutter the forum here. I do not want to sell things here
Questions are welcome
Back to scanning stamps!
Marios
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Being a geek and luddite I know somewhat well both sides of using a printed catalog/book vs. a software debate. I'm not saying that one or the other is better, but a question which has worried me for years (or more honestly nearly two decades), is the day when collecting/identification becomes too automated (and that day is nigh) .
If you have app/software (like Michel App, which is first stamp recognition app backed by major catalog publisher and currently in open beta), the only tasks a collector does is take an image (with mobile or scanner), upload it, and then watch when app then recognizes the stamp and spits you out with a country & catalog details.
It sounds great from newbie collector perspective, but I think most of us long term collectors know the real fun is in browsing the catalogue pages back and forth. Though it can be painfully slow identification method at times and takes decades to master, it is also the thing that makes us collectors dreamers and so knowledgeable on wide range of topics (even outside our scope)... You just don't see what you want to see, you are forced to broaden your mind. Surely same could be reached with app/software approach. But I doubt very few would want such 'additional information' provided. It just goes against the very nature of why identification apps/software have been built in the first place...
That said, the software approach can be HUGE timesaver for those who want just the quick id and value to see if the stamps they inherited/discovered are worth anything.
just my 5 cents...
-k-
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
I agree. Half the fun of identifying the stamp from the catalogue is the exposure you get to other images along the way.
We all know that the human brain is a marvellous thing. Despite having that exposure for a fraction of a second, your brain retains this and when the "real thing" turns up you almost always get instant recall to where you saw it before. You are then halfway to a positive ID because you know where to look.
Login to Like
this post
Hi Marios,
You won’t find a bigger advocate for technology and how it can be used in our hobby than myself. And I agree that software has answers for the low hanging fruit (whether it be grading or identification).
With grading, determining the centering of a stamp has never been the same problem as determining a true stamp grade. Virtually everyone can look at a stamp and determine if the centering is pleasing to their eye enough to add to their collection; it is the easy part. (And adding yet another set of stamp grading nomenclature to an already confusing mix of competing stamp grades only adds to problems.) What would be really helpful would be to educate us on the differing centering challenges for each stamp issue. For example, some US stamps have very tight margins. Due to manufacturing processes of a particular era, the perforations barely clear the design on all four sides. Identifying and educating hobbyists on which stamp they can expect these would be a great feature. Educating us on which stamps to expect better perforation alignment (i.e. those which electric eye technology came into use) would be helpful.
In the other thread, you outlined the difference between EZGrader app that prints a certificate and the typical industry grading certificate. But many of us were responding to a poster who clearly had confused the two and this is not the first time we have seen this confusion. Are you going to add this clarification to your marketing material so that folks do not have this confusion in the future? I realize that naming the product ‘EZCentering’ would not have been very desirable; but the name EZGrader drives the need for clarification to avoid confusion that is occurring.
In regards to stamp recognition, without question applications can recognize simple stamp designs. But SCB and Malcolm are right, this is the ‘fun’ part for most stamp collectors. It does little for the steps that hobbyists need the most help on; the difficult tasks like determining watermarks, paper types, and stamp condition issues. We need help identifying tricky forgeries, we need help identifying paper types, we need help identifying repairs and alterations on stamps. Software has no answers for the most challenging parts of stamp identification. And my opinion differs from SCB in that I do not see that this will be helpful to ‘treasure hunters’ (less experienced folks who are simply trying to determine if the box of stamp they just got has valuable stamps in it). Over and over we see how people immediately assume that they have the most valuable and rarest varieties. If a stamp recognition app simply reports back that it could be catalog number #1000, #1000a, or #1000b; I do not understand how the app will prevent them from assuming that they have the high value variety.
I view apps as being more than some coding logic and algorithms; it is also about delivering content and context. So the logic of recognizing a stamp design just the first step, the real value is how it can lead to the educational opportunities. Once a basic stamp design is recognized, the app can then show us how to watermark the stamp. Or show us what forgeries and possible alterations to look for. Or show us which other stamps are used to make common alterations. Or show us how to determine paper types for the varieties. Or show us how to find secret marks for that variety. Or show us how to understand the different color shades for stamps issued over time. In my opinion delivering this content and context is the true power of a great app.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Hi Don,
I agree with all posters views & opinions. For me they are tools to use. You mentioned this
".... Once a basic stamp design is recognized, the app can then show us how to watermark the stamp."
This is already available in one of my programs. It has available in it a digitized watermark for all known watermarks.
"... Or show us what forgeries and possible alterations to look for." Working on it.
Or show us which other stamps are used to make common alterations.
"...Or show us how to determine paper types for the varieties. " Mostly done & available
"...Or show us how to find secret marks for that variety." Already done with high res images of the relevant areas for a stamp.
"... Or show us how to understand the different color shades for stamps issued over time." This one is very tough as you know but I am working on it
"In my opinion delivering this content and context is the true power of a great app.". Absolutely true.
I have not mentioned directly the name of the programs a I am still unsure If I will get flamed or banned for mentioning them. People are always welcome to email me directly & I can answer in more detail
Thanks for the comments Don
Don
Login to Like
this post
To carry Don(D)'s thought a bit further, one possibility (requiring informed consent all around) would be that, in exchange for data about your scanned stamp (and perhaps even the scan itself) being added to the publisher's database, they report back on how the centering of your stamp compares with others they have seen (the population) of that issue, eg, your stamp is better-centered than X% of those we've seen.
Perhaps the same could be done for pulled perfs?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
Hi,
a population census is a good idea & I have thought about it. But for it to be accurate, I would need users to send us the images for validation & then maintain the database. For a world database such as the one I maintain ( over 840,000 stamps at present ), that's a monumental task.
May think about it for USA & Canada classic issues as most grading is catered to USA & Canada
let me ponder it a while
Thanks ikeypickey
Marios
Login to Like
this post
"... If I've ever gotten third-party junk mail from using either site, I've never figured that out ..."
To be fair to Don, I just got third-party junk mail ... a message from a dealer I've never heard of about a country I don't collect.
To be fair to Colnect, although I did recently visit them after a long hiatus, I also recently handed-over my eMail address in order to download that free-to-non-members 100th Anniversary of Airmail issue of The American Philatelist.
And, to be fair to the APS - and to anticipate Don
- my eMail address could have bubbled-up from just about anywhere.So, yeah, it happens.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
I’ve received two separate snail mail invitations to join APS within the past few months. I’ve never contacted them so who knows where they got my info
Login to Like
this post
The APS does outreach like that a couple of times a year. They'll have your information if you were a past member, bought from the APS Stamp Store, and they probably get mail lists from Mystic and Linn's.
Login to Like
this post
Hi all,
As mentioned in previous posts, I'm a bit new to collecting.
I have several great books for indentifying US stamps and of course I have the internet.
I have recently been using two websites called StampWorld and Stamp Collecting World to identify my non-US stamps.
That said, now two questions:
1) What are other websites that people like for identifying non-US stamps?
2) Are there any good books out there that are "somewhat" affordable? Or maybe that is impractical because the subject matter is so massive, not sure?
Thanks!
JR
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
JR
for an American, the best way is to use a Scott catalogue. You can buy older sets cheap. I've seen older ones go begging here. often it's the postage, not the purchase price, that's hefty, but that's a good way to get high donomination stamps
IF you're gonna collect world wide, get a full set. If country-specific, get the one(s) that correspond to it
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi AMSD,
Would you recommend the Scott catalog vs "some great website".
In other words, is the Scott catalog just that good, or would that kind of content now be available on a website, even if it was a website that required a paid subscription to access it?
Thanks,
JR
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
JR,
I don't think you'll EVER hear any of us say Scott is THAT GOOD. It's decent, and fairly comperhensive (but hardly exhaustive).
its value is more that everyone in the US uses it, so when you say Iraq 357, everyone knows what you mean.
I don't use websites to ID stamps; someone else will need to comment here. If it is a website, make suer they use Scott numbering.
If you were in UK, I'd recommend SG instead, for the same reason of common nomenclature.
David
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi David,
Thanks for the advice!
I found a used edition of a Scotts catalog from 2013 to try out.
It covers countries "C-F".
At $6 used, the price was quite right.
JR
Login to Like
this post
Auctions - Approvals
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
You may find Scott Catalog in your local public library. Some libraries will allow you to borrow copies.
I use the website https://colnect.com only to get the year of issue of a stamp that I can not find in Scott. Colnect does no list Scott catalog numbers.
Doug
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
I have used Stampworld and while it does not have Scott numbers you at least can get to the issue time to find it in Scott.
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Note that there is no free lunch. Some of the sites mentioned in this thread do some things which I consider unethical. For example, selling your email address to others.
Very few people are going to invest in big, expensive sites without some kind of commercial gain.
If you are going to allow these sites to harvest and use your personal information, you need to establish online presence which hides your real identity.
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
As much as I go out of my way to acquire & enjoy print reference materials, I have a three-step process for identifying stamps:
1) If I've got no idea of the country-of-origin, I consult a spreadsheet I've been building over the years with key terms found on stamps & coins (eg, the name of the country, the name of its currency, etc) in their respective native alphabets. The more fonts I use, the slower it loads, but that's just gives me a moment to think about how clever it was of me to build that spreadsheet in the first place.
2) https://www.stampworld.com/ ... I enjoy paging down to find a stamp & its year-of-issue more than I enjoy turning paper pages.
3) https://colnect.com/en/stamps/countries ... I then find the stamp on Colnect, where I enjoy the details they offer, and their useful cross-referencing to similar designs.
I've also found Colnect to be quick to accept & acknowledge my suggested edits & corrections, which feels pretty good.
If I've ever gotten third-party junk mail from using either site, I've never figured that out. However, if you're worried about that, create extra eMail accounts (gMail, Yahoo, as you prefer), set them to forward all mail to your core account, and identify the guilty party in a New York Minute.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi ikey,
Colnect spammed many philatelic and other hobby forums for months and months. They went out of their way to by-pass the safe guards that stamp forum owners put in place so they could continue to spam and redirect traffic to their own site. It sucks to invested your time and money in building a website like this community only to have others come in and steal your traffic. It’s lame.
Stampworld harvests email addresses and reserves the right to sell your information to third parties (it is in their own T&Cs and Privacy policy. Like you mention, folks should setup fake email accounts and not hand over your real email address to people who will profit on it.
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Don,
I understand your concern but giving an email address to almost anyone invites a risk. I I do use multiple email addresses myself and have not seen any usual change in email. Google mail seems to do an excellent job screening spam and suspicious emails. But can we trust Google?
I did sign up at Col-nect and do get an occasional email asking me to complete my collection but nothing other than that.
The enemy is closer than you think. Look at what Facebook has done. Privacy rules are a joke even for countries in US. They do not have to be in Belize.
Al
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Al,
Everyone loves to hate eBay, but Google makes eBay look like child’s play. Google and Amazon now dominate online commerce and I see no change moving forward. Want a Google free app? Sure, as long as you do not mind them monitoring your daily physical locations. Use Google as your search engine? Sure, as long as you do not mind them monitoring every website you visit and then selling that info to others. (I use and recommend DuckDuckGo https://duckduckgo.com/ as a search engine which does not track you.)
I believe that online stamp collectors are a umm… ‘thrifty’ group of folks. They are moving away from paying dues and attending shows and interfacing with the hobby they enjoy online. A part of this migration is that they are finding similar value online and using that saved money to buy more stamps and covers. Additionally, I think that some stamp folks are not technology-centric.
So when I see threads that recommend people use these commercial sites that ‘appear’ free, it is important to remind them that they are not free at all. A few months ago we had a thread which mentioned a site which you could identify if your name was floating around on the ‘dark web’. It freaked some folks out because their email addresses would popup on this tool. The sites mentioned in this thread would be likely causes of having your email added to paid-for mailing lists (whether or not you have seen any spam).
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Don,
We are closer to the "Matrix" everyday where we are just "food" (money) sources like cattle.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi Rockets;
Here is one from the International Society of World Wide Stamp Collectors;
http://www.iswsc.org/iswsc_identifier.html
and another from Stamp Master Album;
http://www.stampmasteralbum.com/ForeignCountryIdentifierHome.htm
and yet another from stamp finder on line;
http://stampfinderonline.com/identify.asp
They are only good for identifying the nation that issued the stamp, but are much faster than searching thru several thick catalogs. They include many non-roman alphabets like cyrilic, old Armenian and others as well.
They also include overprints that can change the stamps location as in occupations and other things like post offices abroad, located in another country.
Then as AMSD suggested, grab your inexpensive older Scott catalogs and look up that nation and find your stamp.
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
PS; I'm just another Michigander too, up here in trout and black bear country in Baldwin, Lake County.
PPS; If you can find one of these on eBay used snap it up fast: "Linn's World Stamp Almanac". Mine is 1980 edition by Amos press, and it has a great foreign stamp identifier included, plus tons of great articles and useful reference material. I don't think they publish these anymore tho...
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Don,
I think that it is a little unfair of you to single out Colnect and Stampworld for harvesting or potentiality harvesting and selling email addresses. I have no experience of Stampworld, but I did sign up for Colnect a few months ago and am absolutely sure that other than receiving the occasional email reminder that I haven't visited for awhile, I have not received a single spam email that could be traced back to them. And to warn that they may sell email addresses in the future is a warning that could in fact apply to almost every web site on the internet.
As for Colnect spamming forums for months, that may or may not be true, but as I have not personally seen any evidence thereof, and as you are probably aware I too have suffered similar unwarranted accusations by a particular forum owner who also mistakenly accused me of being banned from multiple forums as a spammer, my tendency would be to give Colnect the benefit of the doubt, especially as even if it had been an issue in the past, this no longer appears to be true. Surely a life sentence is a little harsh?
On the other hand Colnect is a very useful resource. About the only downside I see is their inability to include Scott numbers as a result of the Scott licensing restrictions. Also they do have a revenue stream in the form of optional paid premium membership, although whether they have enough paid members to support them, only they can know.
Clive
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
i have a 2006 US specialized Scott catalogue you can have for the cost of postage
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
TuskenRaider,
FYI, the International Society of World Wide Stamp Collectors identifier is an older version. A more updated version is the PopUp World Stamp Finder on Stamp Smarter (located at bottom of every page). http://stampsmarter.com/
The Stamp Smarter used the ISWWSC data as its foundation but added 1000+ additional stamps, added images for many of the stamps, and added a 'popup keyboard' for the universal keyword search.
The 'popup keyboard' is critical for this kind of online tool. Why? Because often the hard to find stamps are those which do not use Anglo character. Since computer operating systems and key boards typically only support one language mapping, just trying to type a Cyrillic or Asian character is nearly impossible. So having a pop-up keyboard is required if the user wants to search using the characters they see on a stamp.
I also donated the this identifier code and data to APS, they also have it implemented on their site at http://countryid.stamps.org/. It also has all the updates.
Don
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Clive,
I am stating my experiences and opinion; folks can form their own opinions. But the key in any decision making process is to be informed. I was simply trying to present a full picture of using some of these 'free' commercial sites.
Are you saying that I should not be posting my opinion? I do not think I singled out or suggested in any way that others boycott these sites.
I am unsure what you mean by a 'life sentence'. I make decisions based upon my experience, if someone behaves in a way that I deem unethical they lose my respect. I suppose that if one of these commercial sites suddenly became open source and/or otherwise demonstrated some significant empathy I would revisit my opinion. I stand by my opinion that there is no free lunch and that these sites are profiting in ways that are probably not apparent to many stamp collectors. I also stand by my opinion that everyone should have the most information at hand when making decisions.
Don
Edit: Regarding your falling out with Bobby, you are spinning a bit what actually happened. I think that the misunderstanding could have been resolved but clearly you felt slighted and did not want to. I understand the situation, Bobby is just as firm in his convictions as you are. It think this is a shame and wish you two would have been able to work something out.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
As a starting point, I highly recommend a copy of Linn's Stamp Identifier edited by Donna O'Keefe and Rick Miller. It has an alphabetical listing of stamp inscriptions, the various alphabets, i.e. Greek and Cyrillic, difficult to identify stamps and pictures of hard to ID stamps. If you can not ID the stamp using this little book, then look on the internet. Otherwise ask on SOR, someone will know the answer.
As Tuskin would say, just my 2 cents worth.
Mel
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi Everyone;
Thanks Don for the updated info on the International Society of World Wide Stamp Collectors identifier. I was not aware of all the new tools, and the keyboard sounds absolutely amazing.
I'll add those links to my bookmarks right away. As long as I have collected, I still have trouble with some country IDs.
Still just sortin'....
TuskenRaider
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Don,
Thanks for the response - of course you, like all of us, are each entitled to our opinion and to share it within the limits of civil discourse. What I meant by a "life sentence" is that any bad behaviour on the part of Colnect seems to now be a thing of the past. Surely it is time to give them another chance.
Regarding Bobby, I don't want to get into it too much here, it isn't fair to him nor to the members of this forum, so I regret having brought it up in the first place, but I sometimes wonder if he hadn't perhaps mistaken me for someone else. I still visit his forum regularly and post there occasionally, but rarely anything to do with AlbumEasy.
Clive
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Re Colnect. I noticed that several posters on this thread mentioned that Colnect does not have Scott numbers in their catalog. However, if you look, they use the term "Sn" and what follows is indeed a Scott number. This is mainly in the pre-2000 issues. Being Europe-based, Colnect tends to use Michel numbers as their main numbering system for member submissions of issues. If a Scott, Stanley Gibbons or Y &T number is also submitted or supplied via an update, then it appears in the catalog also.
Mike / meostamps
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
03:28:24am
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
I use colnect and stampworld and numerous other sites. My info. may be being harvested but I have to say that I receive virtually NO spam as a result.
Obviously I ( and everyone else ) may be the target of spammers, but so far I have had no ill-effects - and nor, on a different subject have I had any of my bank accounts compromised via the internet - although I have had my card cloned "out in the field" ( the banks spotted it immediately - they are good at that !).
However having said all that, I do not purchase much via the internet and then only from sites that I believe are safe, and I don't do facebook or twitter and the like, or send selfies on the mobile.
I believe that the biggest threat to your security comes from those who are able to harvest bits of data from multiple sources and channels, and fit them together to make a big picture.
It is obvious that we all have to be careful, but we shouldn't get paranoid either - and we have to accept that absolute privacy in the digital age is not posssible. Things that you really want to keep private( or are possibly compromising) should not go anywhere near any computer, whatsoever.
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Although some make themselves easier targets than others, we know with Equifax, US government personnel files, etc. you have no opportunity to prevent that. You could be offline almost completely and still exposed.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Has anyone been watching this latest situation with FaceBook? We have to understand that we are a ‘product’ to most online websites. Many of them are ‘seeders’. In other words, it is not as simple as ‘I didn’t get any spam from XYZ so it must be ok’. Just like this current Facebook cluster, there are multiple levels to this problem.
Even if you turn off sending your personal information to Facebook, they still know who you are friended with. And if your friends also do not turn off sending their personal data collection, FaceBook ends up still collecting data on you. And of course Facebook is also facing heat because, for a fee, they allowed access to our personal data by a ‘partner’, who in turn used it in their app. Their app appended additional data to the original FB data and then they turned around and sold it to one of their ‘partners’. Now Facebook’s defense is, ‘gee, we didn’t know’.
It has now gotten to the point were if your have a smart phone and walk into a bakery, by the time you walk out with your donut your phone will be sending you ads for the coffee shop 3 doors down, assuming that you will want something to go with that donut you just purchased.
I am not some paranoid, conspiracy nut job. I am a person who advocates technology and has been involved in developing much of this data collecting technology since the 1990s. But anyone with an IQ over 75 knows to ‘follow the money’. Facebook is not ‘free’. The sites mentioned in this thread are not ‘free’. Our data is a product to them and they sell that product. Do people really think that these companies are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars developing and maintaining these sites out of the goodness of their hearts?
When I first became involved with data collecting technologies, it was in the grocery store environment. Frankly I liked what we were developing, if I do not have dentures then I do not need to have denture cream ads being sent to me. And as a guy, I certainly do not need to see ads for feminine products. But the level of sophistication has exploded over the last decade and we all should be aware that our data has value and these sites will do whatever they need to do to make money on us.
Don
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi All
is it acceptable here to mention a commercial product for identifying stamps. I am the developer & sell the product. I will not try to directly make a sales pitch. Just want people to know that there is technology out there than can successfully identify stamps form an image
Marios
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
yes, it's OK.
and, ummm, I think you kinda already did.
if it gets salesy, you'll hear about it
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
A good software inventory program (StampManage by Paul D, EzStamp by Marios T.) can be used as an identifier as well when they have images for a majority of the issues and tied to Scott numbers. For StampWorld will get you the year with an image but then you have to use a catalogue to get the catalogue number.
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Are there any native MAC inventory programs that do not require a PC emulator?
Dennis
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi All,
One of the ways I use all the time to ID stamps other than US & Canada is through stamp recognition software (SRS). I am the developer & I do sell SRS.
But this is not a sales pitch. It's to let people know that tools do exist & have existed for a very long time (since 2003).
SRS can identify almost any face different stamp in under 1 second. It cannot uniquely identify stamps with perf varieties, watermark varieties, fly speck varieties (ie broken toga rope on US stamps ) or minor shade varieties (rose, rose red, red rose, car, car red etc), but it can pull up all the varieties to show you they exist & then you can determine what you have. There are many videos of SRS in action. If you have any questions, send me a private email so as not to clutter the forum here. I do not want to sell things here
Questions are welcome
Back to scanning stamps!
Marios
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Being a geek and luddite I know somewhat well both sides of using a printed catalog/book vs. a software debate. I'm not saying that one or the other is better, but a question which has worried me for years (or more honestly nearly two decades), is the day when collecting/identification becomes too automated (and that day is nigh) .
If you have app/software (like Michel App, which is first stamp recognition app backed by major catalog publisher and currently in open beta), the only tasks a collector does is take an image (with mobile or scanner), upload it, and then watch when app then recognizes the stamp and spits you out with a country & catalog details.
It sounds great from newbie collector perspective, but I think most of us long term collectors know the real fun is in browsing the catalogue pages back and forth. Though it can be painfully slow identification method at times and takes decades to master, it is also the thing that makes us collectors dreamers and so knowledgeable on wide range of topics (even outside our scope)... You just don't see what you want to see, you are forced to broaden your mind. Surely same could be reached with app/software approach. But I doubt very few would want such 'additional information' provided. It just goes against the very nature of why identification apps/software have been built in the first place...
That said, the software approach can be HUGE timesaver for those who want just the quick id and value to see if the stamps they inherited/discovered are worth anything.
just my 5 cents...
-k-
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
03:28:58am
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
I agree. Half the fun of identifying the stamp from the catalogue is the exposure you get to other images along the way.
We all know that the human brain is a marvellous thing. Despite having that exposure for a fraction of a second, your brain retains this and when the "real thing" turns up you almost always get instant recall to where you saw it before. You are then halfway to a positive ID because you know where to look.
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi Marios,
You won’t find a bigger advocate for technology and how it can be used in our hobby than myself. And I agree that software has answers for the low hanging fruit (whether it be grading or identification).
With grading, determining the centering of a stamp has never been the same problem as determining a true stamp grade. Virtually everyone can look at a stamp and determine if the centering is pleasing to their eye enough to add to their collection; it is the easy part. (And adding yet another set of stamp grading nomenclature to an already confusing mix of competing stamp grades only adds to problems.) What would be really helpful would be to educate us on the differing centering challenges for each stamp issue. For example, some US stamps have very tight margins. Due to manufacturing processes of a particular era, the perforations barely clear the design on all four sides. Identifying and educating hobbyists on which stamp they can expect these would be a great feature. Educating us on which stamps to expect better perforation alignment (i.e. those which electric eye technology came into use) would be helpful.
In the other thread, you outlined the difference between EZGrader app that prints a certificate and the typical industry grading certificate. But many of us were responding to a poster who clearly had confused the two and this is not the first time we have seen this confusion. Are you going to add this clarification to your marketing material so that folks do not have this confusion in the future? I realize that naming the product ‘EZCentering’ would not have been very desirable; but the name EZGrader drives the need for clarification to avoid confusion that is occurring.
In regards to stamp recognition, without question applications can recognize simple stamp designs. But SCB and Malcolm are right, this is the ‘fun’ part for most stamp collectors. It does little for the steps that hobbyists need the most help on; the difficult tasks like determining watermarks, paper types, and stamp condition issues. We need help identifying tricky forgeries, we need help identifying paper types, we need help identifying repairs and alterations on stamps. Software has no answers for the most challenging parts of stamp identification. And my opinion differs from SCB in that I do not see that this will be helpful to ‘treasure hunters’ (less experienced folks who are simply trying to determine if the box of stamp they just got has valuable stamps in it). Over and over we see how people immediately assume that they have the most valuable and rarest varieties. If a stamp recognition app simply reports back that it could be catalog number #1000, #1000a, or #1000b; I do not understand how the app will prevent them from assuming that they have the high value variety.
I view apps as being more than some coding logic and algorithms; it is also about delivering content and context. So the logic of recognizing a stamp design just the first step, the real value is how it can lead to the educational opportunities. Once a basic stamp design is recognized, the app can then show us how to watermark the stamp. Or show us what forgeries and possible alterations to look for. Or show us which other stamps are used to make common alterations. Or show us how to determine paper types for the varieties. Or show us how to find secret marks for that variety. Or show us how to understand the different color shades for stamps issued over time. In my opinion delivering this content and context is the true power of a great app.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi Don,
I agree with all posters views & opinions. For me they are tools to use. You mentioned this
".... Once a basic stamp design is recognized, the app can then show us how to watermark the stamp."
This is already available in one of my programs. It has available in it a digitized watermark for all known watermarks.
"... Or show us what forgeries and possible alterations to look for." Working on it.
Or show us which other stamps are used to make common alterations.
"...Or show us how to determine paper types for the varieties. " Mostly done & available
"...Or show us how to find secret marks for that variety." Already done with high res images of the relevant areas for a stamp.
"... Or show us how to understand the different color shades for stamps issued over time." This one is very tough as you know but I am working on it
"In my opinion delivering this content and context is the true power of a great app.". Absolutely true.
I have not mentioned directly the name of the programs a I am still unsure If I will get flamed or banned for mentioning them. People are always welcome to email me directly & I can answer in more detail
Thanks for the comments Don
Don
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
To carry Don(D)'s thought a bit further, one possibility (requiring informed consent all around) would be that, in exchange for data about your scanned stamp (and perhaps even the scan itself) being added to the publisher's database, they report back on how the centering of your stamp compares with others they have seen (the population) of that issue, eg, your stamp is better-centered than X% of those we've seen.
Perhaps the same could be done for pulled perfs?
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
Hi,
a population census is a good idea & I have thought about it. But for it to be accurate, I would need users to send us the images for validation & then maintain the database. For a world database such as the one I maintain ( over 840,000 stamps at present ), that's a monumental task.
May think about it for USA & Canada classic issues as most grading is catered to USA & Canada
let me ponder it a while
Thanks ikeypickey
Marios
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
"... If I've ever gotten third-party junk mail from using either site, I've never figured that out ..."
To be fair to Don, I just got third-party junk mail ... a message from a dealer I've never heard of about a country I don't collect.
To be fair to Colnect, although I did recently visit them after a long hiatus, I also recently handed-over my eMail address in order to download that free-to-non-members 100th Anniversary of Airmail issue of The American Philatelist.
And, to be fair to the APS - and to anticipate Don
- my eMail address could have bubbled-up from just about anywhere.So, yeah, it happens.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
Login to Like
this post
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
I’ve received two separate snail mail invitations to join APS within the past few months. I’ve never contacted them so who knows where they got my info
Login to Like
this post
03:51:11pm
re: Identification of Non-US stamps - Best way?
The APS does outreach like that a couple of times a year. They'll have your information if you were a past member, bought from the APS Stamp Store, and they probably get mail lists from Mystic and Linn's.
Login to Like
this post