Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Catalog values are not the same as market values. The sale price is what people are willing to pay for a stamp in the condition and relative to the demand for that stamp at the time it is offered for sale. Catalog values are nothing more than a general approximation. If catalog values had any validity, then stamps meeting the condition requirements for a stamp would sell at 100% of catalog value.
Why are sale price lower than catalog values? Ask yourself that question. Do you pay full catalog value for the stamps you buy? If not, then why? You'll have the rest of the answer to your question.
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In recent years, any relationship between catalogue value and what people actually pay for stamps has become something like American politics — unpredictable and unrelated to reality. I've never paid a lot of attention to catalogue value — if I need a particular stamp, I'll pay what I have to get it. That's especially true if the stamps or covers in question have proven tough to find. But there's another element as well — postage and handling. Time and again the shipping costs equal or surpass the catalogue value of the stamps I'm buying. I could continue the search, but I'm looking for gratification first and foremost.
There's a limit, of course: Yesterday I was searching ABE.com for a paperback book to buy for a friend. I found a copy of it for U.S. $2.50, but the shipping, from the U.S. to Canada, was U.S. $50.00! Toto, we aren't in Kansas any more! I ended up buying another used copy of the same book from a dealer for about the same amount of money, and free shipping.
I've come to see the search for bargains in stamp collecting as more silly than smart. I've never known any collectors who simply couldn't afford to be collectors, but I've known some who will refuse to pay more than 10% of catalogue value, regardless of the stamp they're looking for, but complain about dealers who are "ripping them off".
Bob
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I live on Long Island in New York and have had regular access to dealers and local shows almost all of my collecting career. The standard I have seen over the years has been fairly consistent at roughly 1/3 of catalog. Dealers vary but few sell much at 50% unless the material is exceptionally fine or possibly under-valuated by the catalogs. Scott periodically turns its attention to different areas and this usually moves their values significantly higher. I believe Italy really shot up 6-8 years ago. Other areas I find extremely overvalued vis-à-vis supply, i.e. Britain and Switzerland.
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02:50:23am
Is there still a monthly stamp show at the ( Electricians ???)Union hall off Rte 110 ?
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Bob's post captured well the way your personal wants/needs can often override any rule of thumb you might want to apply to catalogue value. What pleasure and satisfaction acquiring any stamp might bring you individually certainly isn't a factor used in determining catalogue value.
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Trying to apply a single value to a range of quality is virtually impossible; this is why things like old car price guides typically have 5 or more prices based upon condition. And being distributed worldwide makes it difficult to peg a value for thousands of markets.
eBay tends to be a dumping ground and the better quality material often ends up being sold through other auction houses. Additionally, eBay tends to also have hundreds of thousands of people who are not really professional dealers but rather hobbyists and others who are not in the business of philately. Little or no overhead, no employees to pay, no requirements to be profitable.
And keep in mind that some catalogs were (or are) actually price lists for some publishers.
Determining actual market value still takes ‘special knowledge’. You have to be knowledgeable in understanding and quality of the stamp(s) compared with others for that era. Having knowledge about marketing also helps glean additional value including knowing the best selling venue.
Don
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Scott may list a stamp for a value in Very Fine condition but likely majority of the stamps sold do not actually grade VF. Yet, sellers (dealers and others) will mention the Cat Value (in VF condition) for reference but what they selling is not VF or may be hinged. Part of this is because catalogue makers often list stamps in one or two conditions (like VF Hinged and VF Never Hinged).
The sellers say you are getting at 25% of CV (so a deal) but in reality you are likely getting a stamp in 25% of the condition. It is not like the Coin Dealer Newsletter where you see coins in all grades and that really gives you a value.
It is a little smoke and mirrors by catalogue makers and sellers.
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As far as condition goes, I use my own system, first based on initial impression and then a closer look:
N= nope
UM= uh, maybe
LG= looks good (most of my collection)
MF= mighty fine
CAI= can't afford it
In auctions, especially, some items seem to go from MF to CAI fairly quickly. 
As for catalog value, I keep an inventory based on Scott value fully recognizing that its real value is probably somewhere in the 10-15% range, except for a few of those MF stamps I have. None of this is what drives me to collect however.
Geoff
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08:13:31pm
My rule is simple.
#1., Do I want it ?
#2., Can I afford the price being asked.
Catalog listings show relative rarity, so,
#3., Am I likely to see it again in that condition
at that price or lower.
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05:52:17pm
I agree with several opinions offered in the posts above - it is very hard to equate the Scott Catalog value with ebay prices.
I think there are a few reasons this is true.
First, the Scott price is not really a market price because very few dealers actually sell at that price. It becomes a benchmark price that is used to calculate whatever discount is being used (like 50% of Scott, or 25% of Scott). In the past when you went to a stamp show, you might ask a dealer how their pricing was done and they would typically respond in terms of the discount from the Scott catalog.
ebay adds a second dimension to this because you have a mix of informed and uninformed buyers and sellers. The uninformed sellers tend to be people who inherited a collection and are trying to sell it, or agents who might start the sale at $1 just to be sure the item sells. This tends to dilute the price of lots, and sets a very low expectation for the buyers in terms of what they might have to pay for something - if they can be patient and wait for it to show up under the right circumstances.
This mixture of buyers and sellers sets the final price if it is an auction, but the value depends on who is actively bidding on an item. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen virtually the same item or set sell for vastly different prices even on the same day probably just because not every buyer looked at every lot that day.
So before you buy or sell on ebay, I would suggest you understand the relative value of the item and determine what it is worth to you (or what you are willing to take) and set your strategy based on this criteria.
I would also advise you to make sure you show the front and back of a stamp, and if you show a group of stamps show the most valuable one as the item loads. I bought a NH set that I later sold for over $400 for about $15 because the seller listed each stamp, but displayed the lowest value when the page loaded. Every other bidder ignored it and I got it for the opening bid just because I happened to notice there were other pictures.
So good luck.
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06:08:32pm
Can someone explain the incredible gulf that exists between these dollar amounts in almost every category of stamps? Why are the latter so much lower than the former?
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07:03:43pm
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
Catalog values are not the same as market values. The sale price is what people are willing to pay for a stamp in the condition and relative to the demand for that stamp at the time it is offered for sale. Catalog values are nothing more than a general approximation. If catalog values had any validity, then stamps meeting the condition requirements for a stamp would sell at 100% of catalog value.
Why are sale price lower than catalog values? Ask yourself that question. Do you pay full catalog value for the stamps you buy? If not, then why? You'll have the rest of the answer to your question.
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
In recent years, any relationship between catalogue value and what people actually pay for stamps has become something like American politics — unpredictable and unrelated to reality. I've never paid a lot of attention to catalogue value — if I need a particular stamp, I'll pay what I have to get it. That's especially true if the stamps or covers in question have proven tough to find. But there's another element as well — postage and handling. Time and again the shipping costs equal or surpass the catalogue value of the stamps I'm buying. I could continue the search, but I'm looking for gratification first and foremost.
There's a limit, of course: Yesterday I was searching ABE.com for a paperback book to buy for a friend. I found a copy of it for U.S. $2.50, but the shipping, from the U.S. to Canada, was U.S. $50.00! Toto, we aren't in Kansas any more! I ended up buying another used copy of the same book from a dealer for about the same amount of money, and free shipping.
I've come to see the search for bargains in stamp collecting as more silly than smart. I've never known any collectors who simply couldn't afford to be collectors, but I've known some who will refuse to pay more than 10% of catalogue value, regardless of the stamp they're looking for, but complain about dealers who are "ripping them off".
Bob
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re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
I live on Long Island in New York and have had regular access to dealers and local shows almost all of my collecting career. The standard I have seen over the years has been fairly consistent at roughly 1/3 of catalog. Dealers vary but few sell much at 50% unless the material is exceptionally fine or possibly under-valuated by the catalogs. Scott periodically turns its attention to different areas and this usually moves their values significantly higher. I believe Italy really shot up 6-8 years ago. Other areas I find extremely overvalued vis-à-vis supply, i.e. Britain and Switzerland.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
26 Jun 2018
02:50:23am
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
Is there still a monthly stamp show at the ( Electricians ???)Union hall off Rte 110 ?
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
Bob's post captured well the way your personal wants/needs can often override any rule of thumb you might want to apply to catalogue value. What pleasure and satisfaction acquiring any stamp might bring you individually certainly isn't a factor used in determining catalogue value.
Login to Like
this post
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
Trying to apply a single value to a range of quality is virtually impossible; this is why things like old car price guides typically have 5 or more prices based upon condition. And being distributed worldwide makes it difficult to peg a value for thousands of markets.
eBay tends to be a dumping ground and the better quality material often ends up being sold through other auction houses. Additionally, eBay tends to also have hundreds of thousands of people who are not really professional dealers but rather hobbyists and others who are not in the business of philately. Little or no overhead, no employees to pay, no requirements to be profitable.
And keep in mind that some catalogs were (or are) actually price lists for some publishers.
Determining actual market value still takes ‘special knowledge’. You have to be knowledgeable in understanding and quality of the stamp(s) compared with others for that era. Having knowledge about marketing also helps glean additional value including knowing the best selling venue.
Don
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
Scott may list a stamp for a value in Very Fine condition but likely majority of the stamps sold do not actually grade VF. Yet, sellers (dealers and others) will mention the Cat Value (in VF condition) for reference but what they selling is not VF or may be hinged. Part of this is because catalogue makers often list stamps in one or two conditions (like VF Hinged and VF Never Hinged).
The sellers say you are getting at 25% of CV (so a deal) but in reality you are likely getting a stamp in 25% of the condition. It is not like the Coin Dealer Newsletter where you see coins in all grades and that really gives you a value.
It is a little smoke and mirrors by catalogue makers and sellers.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
05:05:19pm
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
As far as condition goes, I use my own system, first based on initial impression and then a closer look:
N= nope
UM= uh, maybe
LG= looks good (most of my collection)
MF= mighty fine
CAI= can't afford it
In auctions, especially, some items seem to go from MF to CAI fairly quickly.
As for catalog value, I keep an inventory based on Scott value fully recognizing that its real value is probably somewhere in the 10-15% range, except for a few of those MF stamps I have. None of this is what drives me to collect however.
Geoff
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Jun 2018
08:13:31pm
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
My rule is simple.
#1., Do I want it ?
#2., Can I afford the price being asked.
Catalog listings show relative rarity, so,
#3., Am I likely to see it again in that condition
at that price or lower.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
Collecting King George VI from all countries, and King Edward VII and King George V from the West Indies.
29 Jun 2018
05:52:17pm
re: Scott Catalog Values vs. eBay Sale Results
I agree with several opinions offered in the posts above - it is very hard to equate the Scott Catalog value with ebay prices.
I think there are a few reasons this is true.
First, the Scott price is not really a market price because very few dealers actually sell at that price. It becomes a benchmark price that is used to calculate whatever discount is being used (like 50% of Scott, or 25% of Scott). In the past when you went to a stamp show, you might ask a dealer how their pricing was done and they would typically respond in terms of the discount from the Scott catalog.
ebay adds a second dimension to this because you have a mix of informed and uninformed buyers and sellers. The uninformed sellers tend to be people who inherited a collection and are trying to sell it, or agents who might start the sale at $1 just to be sure the item sells. This tends to dilute the price of lots, and sets a very low expectation for the buyers in terms of what they might have to pay for something - if they can be patient and wait for it to show up under the right circumstances.
This mixture of buyers and sellers sets the final price if it is an auction, but the value depends on who is actively bidding on an item. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen virtually the same item or set sell for vastly different prices even on the same day probably just because not every buyer looked at every lot that day.
So before you buy or sell on ebay, I would suggest you understand the relative value of the item and determine what it is worth to you (or what you are willing to take) and set your strategy based on this criteria.
I would also advise you to make sure you show the front and back of a stamp, and if you show a group of stamps show the most valuable one as the item loads. I bought a NH set that I later sold for over $400 for about $15 because the seller listed each stamp, but displayed the lowest value when the page loaded. Every other bidder ignored it and I got it for the opening bid just because I happened to notice there were other pictures.
So good luck.
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