Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Now back to some serious business This is a philosophical question I am sure many collectors face.
You have an almost complete collection and are still missing a few stamps, low value mostly. You have been looking for a while, and when encountered they may be sold as part of a complete set, which would set you back a few pennies. But mostly, they are nowhere to be seen.
Then you migrate over to that well known site in the Philippines, with over 2.5 million stamps, all scanned and well identified, and you are surprised to find several of the pesky missing items from this well rounded collection of yours.
But they are ALL priced well above the latest catalog price, and basic postage is an additional $4.60. Now I know they have a long page on their pricing philosophy and price justification, but I also have some "principles".
This is the situation I just faced looking at some French Morocco stamps as I attempt to fill in the last 10 or so empty slots. When I tally what I found, I face a valuation of about 2.5 times the latest Scott valuation, not including shipping!
Frustrating!
What is a collector to do? Wait some more, or bite the bullet, pay the (outrageous by my standards) prices and fill in those pesky empty spots. Where could you go to work off a want list of basically fairly ordinary stamps at a "reasonable" cost?
I am sure many of us, serious collectors, face this dilemma from time to time. Curious what YOU would do.
Puzzled
rrr....
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If it were me, I would forget catalog values and instead place a value on the experience.
How much is the feeling of completeness worth to you? If it will bring you $XX amount of joy and intrinsically good feelings to complete the album; then it is easy to calculate the amount you can pay.
If it irks you and completing the album is not worth the $XX, then keep looking forward to the day you might be able to find the elusive stamps.
If you played golf, you might choke a bit on very high greens fees at a fantastic club. You could always go play at the local public club for much less. But what is the experience worth, are the high greens fees worth the experience?
Pay for the experience, not the stamps.
Don
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I am with Don. Unfortunately you cannot get a good deal on all purchases. Usually one will be able to buy a whole collection with a few (or a few hundred) holes in it at a bargain price. Then finding the missing stamps often costs more than the price of the collection.
Time is an important factor. I have spent days on end month after month, year after year, looking for that deal on a set of stamps. In retrospect, had I paid the full price and used my time for something else, I would have been ahead in the game.
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A long time ago I decided to forget about catalogue value when it came to completing sets of stamps or buying the types of individual stamps or covers that feed my soul. Catalogue values are arbitrary at best; the value of any stamp or cover is what someone is willing to pay for it.
Several years ago a dealer member of my stamp club offered me this cover, for CAN $290 if I recall correctly:
It was described as being salvaged ("SALVED") from a British freighter, S.S. Eros that had hit a mine. I had become interested in the Battle of the Atlantic, and it seemed to me that it could become a key item for the collection I was working on. I showed it to a friend, who happens to work full time describing philatelic lots for auction, and he advised against the purchase. "Just wait," he said. "You'll find another one for a lot less money." I decided to ignore his advice, paid the dealer (actually, I told him I'd pay him the next week, since I never have more than a few dollars in my wallet), and took the cover home with me. It has turned out to be one of the best philatelic purchases of my life.
It turned out that Eros didn't hit a mine. It was torpedoed by a German U-boat off the north coast of Ireland. It was towed to shore by a tugboat that had been in the area, trying, unsuccessfully, to rescue another torpedoed British ship. Eros was a legitimate target since it was carrying war matériel, including food and even fighter planes, which it had probably picked up in Montreal. I have now learned the entire history of Eros, the history of the U-boat that torpedoed her, and a great deal about the Battle of the Atlantic. Eros covers aren't rare, but neither are they common; $290 was actually a reasonable price for my cover. Since buying it, I have found a couple of others, and have worked with another collector to try to build a database of known Eros covers.
If you know that any particular stamp or cover is not unique and is relatively easy to obtain, it's probably wise to save your money and wait for a better price. But if you want a particular stamp or cover now, and your children won't go hungry if you buy it, and your wife won't divorce you, I'd suggest spending the money to feed your philatelic soul.
Bob
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Don and Jules..I agree in principle, but when you are a world collector, you have many many many such holes. Discipline here, for me, is picking what you need when the price is low, and waiting for what you still need until they surface again at the right price. If I followed the rule of "what the heck, I want it now" my stamp budget would never last long enough to enjoy the hobby.
Part of the allure is the search!
Now we are not talking of extreme rarities, but of fairly common stamps (catalog all under $5.00), but then there are quite a few, and it can add up!
Completing a collection is a landmark step, but then, what do you do? Last time I completed something (Vatican) I put it up for a major auction sale and it did quite well.
Or do you put it back on a shelf where it seldom gets much attention.
So the dilemma remains for me. When do you splurge and buy irrespective of price, just because you want it (at this time), and when do you abide to your overall strategy? And if you were to buy at whatever the price is relative to catalog, do you set an upper limit?
rrr...
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10:46:38pm
I am quite sure I have expressed my disdain for
catalog's listed "values" several times in the
past and questioned their reference to the real world.
I seldom consult the catalogs, Stanley Gibbons, Scott's
or any other for their CWAGs. (***) As to value. perfs,
watermarks, date of issue, variants, yes, but beyond
some indication of comparative rarity within sets or
general stamp runs, no, a waste of time.
My latest Scott's set, used from one of our members for
postage is dated 2006. I just as often consult the 1904
or 1939 edition if classic info is needed.
The decision to buy or pass starts with;
Do I want the item?
How badly?,
and leads to,
Can I afford the asking price?,
or,
How high am I willing to bid ?,
Tempered with,
How likely is it that I will come across another
better or almost as good a copy in the next two
hundred years.
So There is no dilemma, just a choice, I agree
with Don, Jules and Bob.
(CWAGs) = "Calculated Wild Assed Guess," a nautical,
technical term.
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Ralph,
I'm sorta in Charlie's camp (and happy birthday, Charlie, a day or so late). Catalogues can be, and sometimes are, wrong about valuations. There's a number of MV Czech stamps that prove that case (as well as abundant high catalogue value ones).
They are worth what you are willing to pay, not what the cat says. And, as YOUR own experience documents, the CV is wrong. pay it because that's what they're really worth. Or, plan on going without.
David
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For each stamp, consider taking the appropriate piece of paper currency, folding it very small, and mounting the money in your album.
If you ever find that stamp at a reasonable price, or just breakdown and buy that stamp at its 'inflated' price, you'll be able to immediately reimburse yourself when you mount the stamp.
If not, your heirs will be doing cartwheels.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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Its the hunt that matters.
You decide what you are looking for.
You decide what you are willing to pay.
How do you find what you are looking for?
Is it attending a stamp auction?
Is it going to stamp shops?
Is it the easy way of trawling through websites?
Only you can decide.
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I would say wait until you find what you want at a better price, maybe in a mixture that includes something else you need. It's fun looking.
By the way could you tell me the address of the Philippine website where they have such a good range. Possibly I don't practice what I preach 
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I will pay a fair price for covers for my New Jersey cover collection. Yes many of them look no different than covers I’ve found in large lots or in the dollar box at a show, but I take into consideration the time and effort the seller put into the sales process.. photographing and listing it, fees and time it takes to wrap and mail it to me.
Same situation as the cheap stamp you need to finish a set or country. Scott May say it’s worth a quarter, but it’s been elusive until now giving it a degree of scarcity. Plus a dealer has time and effort into getting it to you. In those cases I’d have no issue thinking I paid a quarter for the stamp and $5 for the service!
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I'm still stuck trying to figure out what site the OP alluded to. Philippines?
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Probably this one.
https://www.poppe-stamps.com/?t=1
@Ralph, have you thought of putting a wants list here, maybe one country every few days and see what happens, I'm sure we all have lots of stamps sitting doing nothing that could fill some gaps.
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"I'm still stuck trying to figure out what site the OP alluded to. Philippines?"
It sounds like Poppe-Stamps.
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Poppe Stamps.
www.poppe-stamps.com
Has a fairly attractive system showing their 2.0 million plus stamps and letting you explore endlessly, but as I said earlier, their prices are a bit steep.
A criticism: a lot of wasted effort that may justify to them their pricing ...especially considering that they may scan and list at high resolution every stamp they get, and thus multiple hundreds of very common stamps that can be picked up anywhere for virtually nothing, but are listed at $0.29, or more.
Luckily their system groups them, showing one in their chronological sequence, so you don't have to page through hundreds of identical stamps, like Hipstamp. Just click on the item to see the multitude of inventoried stamps.
Overall they do a good job of listing by year which is a handy method for international buyers. And their support and client communications are excellent.
A good ressource if you are looking for cancellations and color variations, and an occasional "find" when there may be experiencing some identification issues.
One big issue is that they list defective stamps, and they would be better off not wasting time on them and junking them. They have started to cull out the defectives, but there are a lot of them still. (look at the first stamp show in the US listing to see what I mean!)
I still find it the only place where I have a good chance of finding many hard to come by stamp that have relatively low listed catalog price, and they also have a nice method of letting you accumulate in a shopping cart (removing them from sight, so someone else cannot pick it), and they will keep your shopping cart open generously for a while.
But their pricing is still in my mind a personal barrier...which is the reason I posted this discussion board question.
rrr...
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Ralph, I wonder if it is possible to create a "want List" section within SOR so members can post their needed stamps. Possibly via a link on their profile page to a page (member controlled) in which they can put a country name and then using either a description or catalog number entry show what they are looking for. Nothing fancy, just plain old 'notepad' type programming.
Mike / meostamps
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Ralph,
As Charlie stated he doesn't use a catalog, I can't depend on catalog values either. I mainly collect Postal History and Fancy cancels which there is no catalog with prices listed. I do use Auction results to help value some of the items I purchase.
Bob spent $300.00 dollars for a cover that would have no value to me but it is a key item in his collection and was worth that price to him.
It seems that your "principles" won't allow you to purchase stamps from this dealer. Is it this dealer and his pricing policy that is putting you off?
I just purchased a cover for $100.00 that I am sure most collectors who don't collect fancy cancels would look at twice. The dealer is well known and I have a good relationship with him for well over twenty years, he actually got me started with fancy cancels and The US Cancellation Club. He offered to refund my club dues after a year if I was not satisfied with the club. He didn't have to refund my dues, been a member for over twenty years. I may have paid that price in an auction but not sure if I pay that to just any dealer. There are dealers I don't buy from for one reason or another and I would be hard pressed to spend this kind of money with them. The point I am trying to make is that I think you want the stamps but don't like this dealer and don't want to spend your money with him which is your choice. I also have my principles on who to spend my money with.
Vince
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Sorry you misunderstood me Vince.
I like this dealer and I do buy from him.
Usually I find a bunch of items I need at essentially a price that is competitive, even if some are higher than any stated catalog. We all know that the catalogs are not a good source for all decisions, and are mostly approximate "estimates".
What happened yesterday is that I had about 10 or so Morocco (French) slots to fill in the $0.25 to $2.50 latest catalog prices range, and while I did find many of the missing stamps, all were setting me back at least twice what I expected to dish out.
So the dilemma was, wait and pick up a few more over time elsewhere (none are rare enough not to surface fairly often). Then return for the rest of the stamps (if still available).
Or do I buy them all and I have virtually completed the collection (save a few rarities)...and then what?
I can put it on a shelf with other complete countries. Or I can spend the money on other things I also need, knowing that I can readily find today and shift my focus.
Some will say "time is money", and you waste more time, but I am retired, so time does not equate to money. My stamp budget is definitely capped overall so it is an allocation question and a timing question. Many seem to say, "if you want it, just buy it" but I am more deliberately a value buyer..everything has a value in the market place and I would not pay $2 for a pound of bananas if I can buy them at $0.50 elsewhere! When you buy specific items that have a known market valuation, it is quite different than the cover examples, where there are no benchmarks. So for the stamps, I have a rough benchmark on what I expect to pay.
Lucky you-all who can spend on whim at any price.
rrr...
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Ralph,
You are right, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking a question, my mistake.
"I am sure many of us, serious collectors, face this dilemma from time to time. Curious what YOU would do."
"Lucky you-all who can spend on whim at any price."
I just don't get it. Don't ask a question if you don't want to hear someone's opinion. If you want the stamps just buy them, quite simple.
Vince
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So far most have said..if you want it, just get it...no matter what the price. Or am I mis-understanding the general feelings?
True though..
"So There is no dilemma, just a choice."
That seems to be the expressed choice. Maybe I will look at things differently?
rrr..
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To me, it makes sense to keep your wallet closed if the stamp (or cover) that you covet is known to be common and will likely be easily found at a lower price in the near future. We all know that many stamps and philatelic covers are ubiquitous. Many other stamps and covers are much harder to find, a fact which experienced dealers are well aware of. Examples are stamps which are useful only for unusual postage rates, stamps with SON or rare cancels, listed varieties, stamps that are offered in hard-to-find multiples, and covers with interesting provenance, rates, or postmarks.
Bob
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01:34:30am
So far most have said..if you want it,
just get it...no matter what the price.
I am quite sure i am not one of the "many"
as my criteria never included a
"buy at any cost' plan.
The decision to buy or pass starts with;
Do I want the item?
How badly?,
and leads to,
Can I afford the asking price?,
or,
How high am I willing to bid ?,
Tempered with,
How likely is it that I will come
across another better or almost
as good a copy in the next two
hundred years.
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"So far most have said..if you want it,
just get it...no matter what the price."
actually, that's NOT what we said. If it's tough to find, and here it is, then get it because of its rarity (catalogue value notwithstanding).
Bob nicely expressed the caveat: if it's common and available and cheaper elsewhere, look there first.
I am as cheap as they come, but will part with my money for things that I'm not likely to be able to get elsewhere for less.
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I repeat my earlier post with an addition:-
You decide what you are looking for.
You decide what you are willing to pay.
You decide who you buy from.
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Brechinite said,
"I repeat my earlier post with an addition:
You decide what you are looking for.
You decide what you are willing to pay.
You decide who you buy from."
He left out the last line:
You die with those empty spaces still in your album because you were looking for bargains that don't exist!
boB
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I can appreciate a collectors dilemma.
How about the sellers dilemma here on Stamporama.
Namely, a buyer "buys" a couple of stamps for a few cents in April, asks/expects the seller to hold onto them until the buyer buys some more. Two weeks later the buyer "buys" three more stamps, a week later they "buy" one stamp. The bill is now $1.50 plus postage. The buyer then "buys" on average 2 stamps per week over the next two months, the bill is now $3.80 plus postage. This goes on until November!!
The seller notices that the buyer is "buying" from other people the same stamps that the seller has listed.
The dilemma is this:- When should the Seller ask the buyer to stop taking the mickey or should he just wait for the buyer to stop being tight fisted or should he tell the buyer to take his "business" elsewhere.
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11:09:08pm
I am curious Ian, are/were the purchases "Machins".
As for buying the same stamp twice.
If I had bought some stamp in April and left it
dormant till August, upon seeing that same item
posted somewhere, could very easily have forgotten
the previous purchase and noticing the still open
space in a album, might buy a second example.
In fact, I have done exactly that, but only needing
a few weeks for my forgetter to go into overdrive.
That is how vast stocks of duplicates are frequently
born and raised.
Of course, that probably seldom occurs when the stamp
transaction involves expensive items, but for the
"Nickel and Dime" (***) issues that constitute probably 75%
of the some six hundred thousand postage stamps issued
since 1840, only the few collectors who keep obsessively
detailed, and of course accurate, check day to day lists,
can escape such duplication.
For others who are obsessively hip shooters, these things
happen.
I think I would have long ago sent a polite note explaining
just how far a seller such as yourself would go, set a
date and if nothing is resolved, cancel the sale.
I notice that some sellers agree to hold sold items
for some given time, often 90 days, which seems
reasonable, especially when the amounts are minimal.
Put it in your conditions of sale and if you have a
good buyer you can always make an appropriate exception.
(***) In today's market, I feel that singles that sell
for less than $0.50 fit into the classic "Nickel and Dime" meme.
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Charlie, thank you for your response.
No they were not Machins.
This has been a minor problem this year but can take up a fair bit of time and my monthly data usage.
As you know I am amenable to let things ride for a month or two. I do understand the need to try and get sufficient items to make the postage costs "bearable" especially as I live in the U.K. and most members reside in North America.
I normally invoice or reinvoice these buyers a couple of times hoping to jog a response from them, but get no response.
Why should I have to do all the chasing for these small amounts?
This month I messaged several of these members saying I would no longer supply. I got one reply saying they did not know they had these outstanding items, it was the only response.
I cannot put a rider in the conditions of sale as the stamporama system does not allow changes to the conditions of sale without affecting the current listings.
Buying the same stamp twice, yyuupp we have all done that!!
All I ask is for buyers to treat sellers with respect. Which the vast majority of members do!
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I agree Ian. We are a Club not a commercial enterprise. Many purchases are small. As long as it does not interfere with the sellers methods and inventories why not show flexibility. Each one has developed a unique approach. But please for all, COMMUNICATE.
I for one bill only once a month since most of my selling and buying activity is of low valued Approvals types, and I always give buyers with less than $5 of cumulative purchases more time before billing..as much as they need (until I take the books apart, which usually is about 6 months into the cycle).
But I store on plain paper sheets in manila folders, so my inventory does not tie up precious ressources of "Vario or Lindner stock pages", so I don't care when you pay and close your order. But I understand it is a personal option, and you or someone else will have a different approach. If after a certain time the buyer is unable to get enough wanted material, I also don't mind closing the books, and recycling the stamps, if they ask for it.
My biggest problem is juggling my limited time between time to work on my collection, and time to sell. (and time off, which I seem to be taking more, year after year). Some sellers have a stricter approach to billing and tighter payments expectations, and I usually discover it after having bought, eventually 
and I will pay but will probably not return in the future. If I want strict rules, I go to a commercial site.
I find books organized in sequence or with cat numbers essential to my buying, and I now spend no time looking at books with stamps thrown haphazardly on pages, no matter how low the piece price is. I have taken a systematic approach to organizing my books in this fashion, and I have seen as of late many more sellers who go through the extra effort of identifying what they sell, even on low cost Approvals material...Yes!
Finally Ian, to your question:
"Why should I have to do all the chasing for these small amounts?
"
Because for older small orders, sellers like me with too much on their plate will forget! Nudging them is no big deal. Just resend the invoice!
Generally speaking though, I like the Club atmosphere, and the interaction we have here with one another, and will allow more leeway than if I ran a store business (I suppose). I expect the same in return.
But I do realize some here don't buy anything and are just sellers, and I thus expect them to have other expectations. We had a long discussion before on commercial sellers here. I feel those who adapted survived, while others letft to go elsewhere. The key to me is if they are willing or not to sell in a Club settings with different expectations than on commercial sites.
And we are also very nicely managed with our volunteer administrators..let us hear cheers for them too! And for ALL please...Mark your defects, even on 5 cents stamps!
rrr...
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rrraphy
Yes we are a Club, so normal business practices are stretched or thrown out the window.
However expecting a seller to hold onto a few stamps, at 5 - 10 cents, for four to seven months and adding a couple of stamps every so often during that time is tedious to say the least. It must also be difficult for buyers to keep track of what they have "bought". (Despite the information being available in the system)
Yes I send an invoice to remind them but they are just ignored.
Most buyers on this site have their own way of "working" with regards to purchasing. Some will buy to a limit asking to reach a particular monetary level before invoicing, some want to be invoiced immediately, some want to be invoiced monthly, some will ask not to be invoiced until they have finished purchasing (how is a seller supposed to know when a buyer is finished? Is it tomorrow, this week or in a months time?)
Sellers try to meet the requirements of Buyers but we are but human, mistakes can be made, especially if the purchases are over a long time period.
The invoicing system on stamporama lets the seller list their invoices by 2 months , 6 months or all. Anything over two months is in the six months category, so every time the seller goes into the system their data usage is needlessly higher for the sake of a few cents)
Like you I have changed my approval system to paper for used and mint hinged stamps so I don't use as many stock sheets or Varios.
I love this site and am extremely grateful to the volunteers and Roy.
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just so we're clear, all these discussions about holding, re-invoicing, nudging, etc., are all at the seller's discretion.
if it's convenient or profitable or just postive Karma, have at it. If not, the rules tell us what's supposed to happen.
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It is only through this type of discussion that sellers and buyers can be made aware of how sellers and buyers are operating and the occaisional problems that may or can arise and solutions real or possible be put forward.
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Approvals
Happy Thanksgiving to all. Hope you have recovered from the over indulging food tradition here in the USA. (cooking and eating)
Now back to some serious business This is a philosophical question I am sure many collectors face.
You have an almost complete collection and are still missing a few stamps, low value mostly. You have been looking for a while, and when encountered they may be sold as part of a complete set, which would set you back a few pennies. But mostly, they are nowhere to be seen.
Then you migrate over to that well known site in the Philippines, with over 2.5 million stamps, all scanned and well identified, and you are surprised to find several of the pesky missing items from this well rounded collection of yours.
But they are ALL priced well above the latest catalog price, and basic postage is an additional $4.60. Now I know they have a long page on their pricing philosophy and price justification, but I also have some "principles".
This is the situation I just faced looking at some French Morocco stamps as I attempt to fill in the last 10 or so empty slots. When I tally what I found, I face a valuation of about 2.5 times the latest Scott valuation, not including shipping!
Frustrating!
What is a collector to do? Wait some more, or bite the bullet, pay the (outrageous by my standards) prices and fill in those pesky empty spots. Where could you go to work off a want list of basically fairly ordinary stamps at a "reasonable" cost?
I am sure many of us, serious collectors, face this dilemma from time to time. Curious what YOU would do.
Puzzled
rrr....
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re: A collector's dilemma
If it were me, I would forget catalog values and instead place a value on the experience.
How much is the feeling of completeness worth to you? If it will bring you $XX amount of joy and intrinsically good feelings to complete the album; then it is easy to calculate the amount you can pay.
If it irks you and completing the album is not worth the $XX, then keep looking forward to the day you might be able to find the elusive stamps.
If you played golf, you might choke a bit on very high greens fees at a fantastic club. You could always go play at the local public club for much less. But what is the experience worth, are the high greens fees worth the experience?
Pay for the experience, not the stamps.
Don
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re: A collector's dilemma
I am with Don. Unfortunately you cannot get a good deal on all purchases. Usually one will be able to buy a whole collection with a few (or a few hundred) holes in it at a bargain price. Then finding the missing stamps often costs more than the price of the collection.
Time is an important factor. I have spent days on end month after month, year after year, looking for that deal on a set of stamps. In retrospect, had I paid the full price and used my time for something else, I would have been ahead in the game.
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re: A collector's dilemma
A long time ago I decided to forget about catalogue value when it came to completing sets of stamps or buying the types of individual stamps or covers that feed my soul. Catalogue values are arbitrary at best; the value of any stamp or cover is what someone is willing to pay for it.
Several years ago a dealer member of my stamp club offered me this cover, for CAN $290 if I recall correctly:
It was described as being salvaged ("SALVED") from a British freighter, S.S. Eros that had hit a mine. I had become interested in the Battle of the Atlantic, and it seemed to me that it could become a key item for the collection I was working on. I showed it to a friend, who happens to work full time describing philatelic lots for auction, and he advised against the purchase. "Just wait," he said. "You'll find another one for a lot less money." I decided to ignore his advice, paid the dealer (actually, I told him I'd pay him the next week, since I never have more than a few dollars in my wallet), and took the cover home with me. It has turned out to be one of the best philatelic purchases of my life.
It turned out that Eros didn't hit a mine. It was torpedoed by a German U-boat off the north coast of Ireland. It was towed to shore by a tugboat that had been in the area, trying, unsuccessfully, to rescue another torpedoed British ship. Eros was a legitimate target since it was carrying war matériel, including food and even fighter planes, which it had probably picked up in Montreal. I have now learned the entire history of Eros, the history of the U-boat that torpedoed her, and a great deal about the Battle of the Atlantic. Eros covers aren't rare, but neither are they common; $290 was actually a reasonable price for my cover. Since buying it, I have found a couple of others, and have worked with another collector to try to build a database of known Eros covers.
If you know that any particular stamp or cover is not unique and is relatively easy to obtain, it's probably wise to save your money and wait for a better price. But if you want a particular stamp or cover now, and your children won't go hungry if you buy it, and your wife won't divorce you, I'd suggest spending the money to feed your philatelic soul.
Bob
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re: A collector's dilemma
Don and Jules..I agree in principle, but when you are a world collector, you have many many many such holes. Discipline here, for me, is picking what you need when the price is low, and waiting for what you still need until they surface again at the right price. If I followed the rule of "what the heck, I want it now" my stamp budget would never last long enough to enjoy the hobby.
Part of the allure is the search!
Now we are not talking of extreme rarities, but of fairly common stamps (catalog all under $5.00), but then there are quite a few, and it can add up!
Completing a collection is a landmark step, but then, what do you do? Last time I completed something (Vatican) I put it up for a major auction sale and it did quite well.
Or do you put it back on a shelf where it seldom gets much attention.
So the dilemma remains for me. When do you splurge and buy irrespective of price, just because you want it (at this time), and when do you abide to your overall strategy? And if you were to buy at whatever the price is relative to catalog, do you set an upper limit?
rrr...
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
23 Nov 2018
10:46:38pm
re: A collector's dilemma
I am quite sure I have expressed my disdain for
catalog's listed "values" several times in the
past and questioned their reference to the real world.
I seldom consult the catalogs, Stanley Gibbons, Scott's
or any other for their CWAGs. (***) As to value. perfs,
watermarks, date of issue, variants, yes, but beyond
some indication of comparative rarity within sets or
general stamp runs, no, a waste of time.
My latest Scott's set, used from one of our members for
postage is dated 2006. I just as often consult the 1904
or 1939 edition if classic info is needed.
The decision to buy or pass starts with;
Do I want the item?
How badly?,
and leads to,
Can I afford the asking price?,
or,
How high am I willing to bid ?,
Tempered with,
How likely is it that I will come across another
better or almost as good a copy in the next two
hundred years.
So There is no dilemma, just a choice, I agree
with Don, Jules and Bob.
(CWAGs) = "Calculated Wild Assed Guess," a nautical,
technical term.
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re: A collector's dilemma
Ralph,
I'm sorta in Charlie's camp (and happy birthday, Charlie, a day or so late). Catalogues can be, and sometimes are, wrong about valuations. There's a number of MV Czech stamps that prove that case (as well as abundant high catalogue value ones).
They are worth what you are willing to pay, not what the cat says. And, as YOUR own experience documents, the CV is wrong. pay it because that's what they're really worth. Or, plan on going without.
David
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re: A collector's dilemma
For each stamp, consider taking the appropriate piece of paper currency, folding it very small, and mounting the money in your album.
If you ever find that stamp at a reasonable price, or just breakdown and buy that stamp at its 'inflated' price, you'll be able to immediately reimburse yourself when you mount the stamp.
If not, your heirs will be doing cartwheels.
Cheers,
/s/ ikeyPikey
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05:25:34am
Auctions - Approvals
re: A collector's dilemma
Its the hunt that matters.
You decide what you are looking for.
You decide what you are willing to pay.
How do you find what you are looking for?
Is it attending a stamp auction?
Is it going to stamp shops?
Is it the easy way of trawling through websites?
Only you can decide.
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re: A collector's dilemma
I would say wait until you find what you want at a better price, maybe in a mixture that includes something else you need. It's fun looking.
By the way could you tell me the address of the Philippine website where they have such a good range. Possibly I don't practice what I preach
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re: A collector's dilemma
I will pay a fair price for covers for my New Jersey cover collection. Yes many of them look no different than covers I’ve found in large lots or in the dollar box at a show, but I take into consideration the time and effort the seller put into the sales process.. photographing and listing it, fees and time it takes to wrap and mail it to me.
Same situation as the cheap stamp you need to finish a set or country. Scott May say it’s worth a quarter, but it’s been elusive until now giving it a degree of scarcity. Plus a dealer has time and effort into getting it to you. In those cases I’d have no issue thinking I paid a quarter for the stamp and $5 for the service!
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re: A collector's dilemma
I'm still stuck trying to figure out what site the OP alluded to. Philippines?
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re: A collector's dilemma
Probably this one.
https://www.poppe-stamps.com/?t=1
@Ralph, have you thought of putting a wants list here, maybe one country every few days and see what happens, I'm sure we all have lots of stamps sitting doing nothing that could fill some gaps.
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re: A collector's dilemma
"I'm still stuck trying to figure out what site the OP alluded to. Philippines?"
It sounds like Poppe-Stamps.
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re: A collector's dilemma
Poppe Stamps.
www.poppe-stamps.com
Has a fairly attractive system showing their 2.0 million plus stamps and letting you explore endlessly, but as I said earlier, their prices are a bit steep.
A criticism: a lot of wasted effort that may justify to them their pricing ...especially considering that they may scan and list at high resolution every stamp they get, and thus multiple hundreds of very common stamps that can be picked up anywhere for virtually nothing, but are listed at $0.29, or more.
Luckily their system groups them, showing one in their chronological sequence, so you don't have to page through hundreds of identical stamps, like Hipstamp. Just click on the item to see the multitude of inventoried stamps.
Overall they do a good job of listing by year which is a handy method for international buyers. And their support and client communications are excellent.
A good ressource if you are looking for cancellations and color variations, and an occasional "find" when there may be experiencing some identification issues.
One big issue is that they list defective stamps, and they would be better off not wasting time on them and junking them. They have started to cull out the defectives, but there are a lot of them still. (look at the first stamp show in the US listing to see what I mean!)
I still find it the only place where I have a good chance of finding many hard to come by stamp that have relatively low listed catalog price, and they also have a nice method of letting you accumulate in a shopping cart (removing them from sight, so someone else cannot pick it), and they will keep your shopping cart open generously for a while.
But their pricing is still in my mind a personal barrier...which is the reason I posted this discussion board question.
rrr...
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re: A collector's dilemma
Ralph, I wonder if it is possible to create a "want List" section within SOR so members can post their needed stamps. Possibly via a link on their profile page to a page (member controlled) in which they can put a country name and then using either a description or catalog number entry show what they are looking for. Nothing fancy, just plain old 'notepad' type programming.
Mike / meostamps
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re: A collector's dilemma
Ralph,
As Charlie stated he doesn't use a catalog, I can't depend on catalog values either. I mainly collect Postal History and Fancy cancels which there is no catalog with prices listed. I do use Auction results to help value some of the items I purchase.
Bob spent $300.00 dollars for a cover that would have no value to me but it is a key item in his collection and was worth that price to him.
It seems that your "principles" won't allow you to purchase stamps from this dealer. Is it this dealer and his pricing policy that is putting you off?
I just purchased a cover for $100.00 that I am sure most collectors who don't collect fancy cancels would look at twice. The dealer is well known and I have a good relationship with him for well over twenty years, he actually got me started with fancy cancels and The US Cancellation Club. He offered to refund my club dues after a year if I was not satisfied with the club. He didn't have to refund my dues, been a member for over twenty years. I may have paid that price in an auction but not sure if I pay that to just any dealer. There are dealers I don't buy from for one reason or another and I would be hard pressed to spend this kind of money with them. The point I am trying to make is that I think you want the stamps but don't like this dealer and don't want to spend your money with him which is your choice. I also have my principles on who to spend my money with.
Vince
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re: A collector's dilemma
Sorry you misunderstood me Vince.
I like this dealer and I do buy from him.
Usually I find a bunch of items I need at essentially a price that is competitive, even if some are higher than any stated catalog. We all know that the catalogs are not a good source for all decisions, and are mostly approximate "estimates".
What happened yesterday is that I had about 10 or so Morocco (French) slots to fill in the $0.25 to $2.50 latest catalog prices range, and while I did find many of the missing stamps, all were setting me back at least twice what I expected to dish out.
So the dilemma was, wait and pick up a few more over time elsewhere (none are rare enough not to surface fairly often). Then return for the rest of the stamps (if still available).
Or do I buy them all and I have virtually completed the collection (save a few rarities)...and then what?
I can put it on a shelf with other complete countries. Or I can spend the money on other things I also need, knowing that I can readily find today and shift my focus.
Some will say "time is money", and you waste more time, but I am retired, so time does not equate to money. My stamp budget is definitely capped overall so it is an allocation question and a timing question. Many seem to say, "if you want it, just buy it" but I am more deliberately a value buyer..everything has a value in the market place and I would not pay $2 for a pound of bananas if I can buy them at $0.50 elsewhere! When you buy specific items that have a known market valuation, it is quite different than the cover examples, where there are no benchmarks. So for the stamps, I have a rough benchmark on what I expect to pay.
Lucky you-all who can spend on whim at any price.
rrr...
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re: A collector's dilemma
Ralph,
You are right, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking a question, my mistake.
"I am sure many of us, serious collectors, face this dilemma from time to time. Curious what YOU would do."
"Lucky you-all who can spend on whim at any price."
I just don't get it. Don't ask a question if you don't want to hear someone's opinion. If you want the stamps just buy them, quite simple.
Vince
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So far most have said..if you want it, just get it...no matter what the price. Or am I mis-understanding the general feelings?
True though..
"So There is no dilemma, just a choice."
That seems to be the expressed choice. Maybe I will look at things differently?
rrr..
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re: A collector's dilemma
To me, it makes sense to keep your wallet closed if the stamp (or cover) that you covet is known to be common and will likely be easily found at a lower price in the near future. We all know that many stamps and philatelic covers are ubiquitous. Many other stamps and covers are much harder to find, a fact which experienced dealers are well aware of. Examples are stamps which are useful only for unusual postage rates, stamps with SON or rare cancels, listed varieties, stamps that are offered in hard-to-find multiples, and covers with interesting provenance, rates, or postmarks.
Bob
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
25 Nov 2018
01:34:30am
re: A collector's dilemma
So far most have said..if you want it,
just get it...no matter what the price.
I am quite sure i am not one of the "many"
as my criteria never included a
"buy at any cost' plan.
The decision to buy or pass starts with;
Do I want the item?
How badly?,
and leads to,
Can I afford the asking price?,
or,
How high am I willing to bid ?,
Tempered with,
How likely is it that I will come
across another better or almost
as good a copy in the next two
hundred years.
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"So far most have said..if you want it,
just get it...no matter what the price."
actually, that's NOT what we said. If it's tough to find, and here it is, then get it because of its rarity (catalogue value notwithstanding).
Bob nicely expressed the caveat: if it's common and available and cheaper elsewhere, look there first.
I am as cheap as they come, but will part with my money for things that I'm not likely to be able to get elsewhere for less.
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01:34:15pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: A collector's dilemma
I repeat my earlier post with an addition:-
You decide what you are looking for.
You decide what you are willing to pay.
You decide who you buy from.
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Brechinite said,
"I repeat my earlier post with an addition:
You decide what you are looking for.
You decide what you are willing to pay.
You decide who you buy from."
He left out the last line:
You die with those empty spaces still in your album because you were looking for bargains that don't exist!
boB
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10:02:26am
Auctions - Approvals
re: A collector's dilemma
I can appreciate a collectors dilemma.
How about the sellers dilemma here on Stamporama.
Namely, a buyer "buys" a couple of stamps for a few cents in April, asks/expects the seller to hold onto them until the buyer buys some more. Two weeks later the buyer "buys" three more stamps, a week later they "buy" one stamp. The bill is now $1.50 plus postage. The buyer then "buys" on average 2 stamps per week over the next two months, the bill is now $3.80 plus postage. This goes on until November!!
The seller notices that the buyer is "buying" from other people the same stamps that the seller has listed.
The dilemma is this:- When should the Seller ask the buyer to stop taking the mickey or should he just wait for the buyer to stop being tight fisted or should he tell the buyer to take his "business" elsewhere.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
27 Nov 2018
11:09:08pm
re: A collector's dilemma
I am curious Ian, are/were the purchases "Machins".
As for buying the same stamp twice.
If I had bought some stamp in April and left it
dormant till August, upon seeing that same item
posted somewhere, could very easily have forgotten
the previous purchase and noticing the still open
space in a album, might buy a second example.
In fact, I have done exactly that, but only needing
a few weeks for my forgetter to go into overdrive.
That is how vast stocks of duplicates are frequently
born and raised.
Of course, that probably seldom occurs when the stamp
transaction involves expensive items, but for the
"Nickel and Dime" (***) issues that constitute probably 75%
of the some six hundred thousand postage stamps issued
since 1840, only the few collectors who keep obsessively
detailed, and of course accurate, check day to day lists,
can escape such duplication.
For others who are obsessively hip shooters, these things
happen.
I think I would have long ago sent a polite note explaining
just how far a seller such as yourself would go, set a
date and if nothing is resolved, cancel the sale.
I notice that some sellers agree to hold sold items
for some given time, often 90 days, which seems
reasonable, especially when the amounts are minimal.
Put it in your conditions of sale and if you have a
good buyer you can always make an appropriate exception.
(***) In today's market, I feel that singles that sell
for less than $0.50 fit into the classic "Nickel and Dime" meme.
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04:45:25am
Auctions - Approvals
re: A collector's dilemma
Charlie, thank you for your response.
No they were not Machins.
This has been a minor problem this year but can take up a fair bit of time and my monthly data usage.
As you know I am amenable to let things ride for a month or two. I do understand the need to try and get sufficient items to make the postage costs "bearable" especially as I live in the U.K. and most members reside in North America.
I normally invoice or reinvoice these buyers a couple of times hoping to jog a response from them, but get no response.
Why should I have to do all the chasing for these small amounts?
This month I messaged several of these members saying I would no longer supply. I got one reply saying they did not know they had these outstanding items, it was the only response.
I cannot put a rider in the conditions of sale as the stamporama system does not allow changes to the conditions of sale without affecting the current listings.
Buying the same stamp twice, yyuupp we have all done that!!
All I ask is for buyers to treat sellers with respect. Which the vast majority of members do!
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re: A collector's dilemma
I agree Ian. We are a Club not a commercial enterprise. Many purchases are small. As long as it does not interfere with the sellers methods and inventories why not show flexibility. Each one has developed a unique approach. But please for all, COMMUNICATE.
I for one bill only once a month since most of my selling and buying activity is of low valued Approvals types, and I always give buyers with less than $5 of cumulative purchases more time before billing..as much as they need (until I take the books apart, which usually is about 6 months into the cycle).
But I store on plain paper sheets in manila folders, so my inventory does not tie up precious ressources of "Vario or Lindner stock pages", so I don't care when you pay and close your order. But I understand it is a personal option, and you or someone else will have a different approach. If after a certain time the buyer is unable to get enough wanted material, I also don't mind closing the books, and recycling the stamps, if they ask for it.
My biggest problem is juggling my limited time between time to work on my collection, and time to sell. (and time off, which I seem to be taking more, year after year). Some sellers have a stricter approach to billing and tighter payments expectations, and I usually discover it after having bought, eventually and I will pay but will probably not return in the future. If I want strict rules, I go to a commercial site.
I find books organized in sequence or with cat numbers essential to my buying, and I now spend no time looking at books with stamps thrown haphazardly on pages, no matter how low the piece price is. I have taken a systematic approach to organizing my books in this fashion, and I have seen as of late many more sellers who go through the extra effort of identifying what they sell, even on low cost Approvals material...Yes!
Finally Ian, to your question:
"Why should I have to do all the chasing for these small amounts?
"
Because for older small orders, sellers like me with too much on their plate will forget! Nudging them is no big deal. Just resend the invoice!
Generally speaking though, I like the Club atmosphere, and the interaction we have here with one another, and will allow more leeway than if I ran a store business (I suppose). I expect the same in return.
But I do realize some here don't buy anything and are just sellers, and I thus expect them to have other expectations. We had a long discussion before on commercial sellers here. I feel those who adapted survived, while others letft to go elsewhere. The key to me is if they are willing or not to sell in a Club settings with different expectations than on commercial sites.
And we are also very nicely managed with our volunteer administrators..let us hear cheers for them too! And for ALL please...Mark your defects, even on 5 cents stamps!
rrr...
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06:52:36pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: A collector's dilemma
rrraphy
Yes we are a Club, so normal business practices are stretched or thrown out the window.
However expecting a seller to hold onto a few stamps, at 5 - 10 cents, for four to seven months and adding a couple of stamps every so often during that time is tedious to say the least. It must also be difficult for buyers to keep track of what they have "bought". (Despite the information being available in the system)
Yes I send an invoice to remind them but they are just ignored.
Most buyers on this site have their own way of "working" with regards to purchasing. Some will buy to a limit asking to reach a particular monetary level before invoicing, some want to be invoiced immediately, some want to be invoiced monthly, some will ask not to be invoiced until they have finished purchasing (how is a seller supposed to know when a buyer is finished? Is it tomorrow, this week or in a months time?)
Sellers try to meet the requirements of Buyers but we are but human, mistakes can be made, especially if the purchases are over a long time period.
The invoicing system on stamporama lets the seller list their invoices by 2 months , 6 months or all. Anything over two months is in the six months category, so every time the seller goes into the system their data usage is needlessly higher for the sake of a few cents)
Like you I have changed my approval system to paper for used and mint hinged stamps so I don't use as many stock sheets or Varios.
I love this site and am extremely grateful to the volunteers and Roy.
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re: A collector's dilemma
just so we're clear, all these discussions about holding, re-invoicing, nudging, etc., are all at the seller's discretion.
if it's convenient or profitable or just postive Karma, have at it. If not, the rules tell us what's supposed to happen.
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10:17:51am
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re: A collector's dilemma
It is only through this type of discussion that sellers and buyers can be made aware of how sellers and buyers are operating and the occaisional problems that may or can arise and solutions real or possible be put forward.
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