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United States/Covers & Postmarks : Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

 

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Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

08 Feb 2019
09:39:32am

Auctions - Approvals
Have pretty much come to a dead end on this one - went through Skinner & Eno, Cole, Stampsmarter, etc. Probably just missed it but if someone has come across it before help would certainly be appreciated.

I did darken the image a bit to better show the cancel. Stamp is nicely centered for a 65 and it has a military address.

Thanks for the assistance

Image Not Found

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musicman
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APS #213005

09 Feb 2019
09:28:48pm
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Carol,

I searched thru Hurst-Sampson's "19th Century U.S. Fancy Cancels",

Loso/Windt's "20th Century U.S. Fancy Cancels"

and "U.S. Postmarks And Cancellations" by the Philatelic Foundation

and I found not a single hourglass cancel of any description;

however, I did find a couple of negative anchor cancels that - to my eye -

look as if they MIGHT be similar.

I created a reverse-color image in paint of your posted image and it COULD be possible...??


Image Not Found



Then again, I could be totally wrong...



Image Not Found

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vinman
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09 Feb 2019
09:39:05pm
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

It looks like a four point star cancel.

Vince

Check this site page 67, GE-R 49

https://d2jf3tgwe889fp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/CL-TP-SKINNER-ENO-United-States-Cancellations-1845-1869-Skinner-and-Eno-Bookmarked.pdf

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"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

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Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

09 Feb 2019
09:47:03pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Thanks - interesting what you can do with paint to come up with a more recognizable image. Will sift through stuff again..... Since it's from NY it is doubtful it has escaped identification although in going through Stampsmarter I found a bunch of early cancels I had in my question boxes identified as NY Foreign mail. I know the later ones (1870's) but had no idea of the earlier ones.....

Also just remembered I have several Billigs on the shelf, some of which have fancies in them.

Thanks again.

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www.hipstamp.com/store/webpaper
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

09 Feb 2019
10:02:41pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

And certainly looks like GE-R-49 with a circle, partial circle, or damaged circle around it...

Thanks

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

10 Feb 2019
04:31:45am
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Hi Carol,
I think using RetroReveal is the best way to enhance a weak cancel. RetroReveal is a free online service which works by splitting the color channels. (This can also be done in some graphics applications like PhotoShop, but RetroReveal is much easier to work with for most folks.)
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

Unlike many image manipulations, I like splitting the color channels because it is not ‘adding’ graphical information but rather is ‘removing’ graphical information. By splitting out the color channels, the isolation often assists us in seeing what is really there.
I wrote a short ‘How To’ article on RetroReveal (with link to RetroReveal) here

http://stampsmarter.com/learning/HowToUseRetroReveal.html
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

10 Feb 2019
05:58:08am

Auctions - Approvals
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Thank you very much Don. I am beginning to go to your site more and more often BEFORE asking questions and am always amazed at the amount of information available and how easy it is to find. It is the gold standard of what a reference website should be and a treasure for serious philatelists.

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www.hipstamp.com/store/webpaper
51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

10 Feb 2019
08:21:32am
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Hi Carol,
Thank you for the kind words.
I was not able to find a double circle duplex exactly like yours for NYC but found this similar 1863 duplex.

Image Not Found

And here are some other cancels from NY and the same era which are also similar.

Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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musicman
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APS #213005

10 Feb 2019
08:42:31am
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Don,

Thanks for the info on the Retroreveal site - I'm all signed up and using it now!


How did you get the black & white cancel image graphically removed from the stamp?

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

10 Feb 2019
09:09:15am
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Hi Randall,
I started with the RetroReveal site image, and then used PhotoShop to manually cut away the things I could detect by eye.
Don

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"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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keesindy
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10 Feb 2019
09:20:36am
re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

I agree with Don regarding RetroReveal. I've used the site several times in recent years to reveal otherwise unrecognizable information on stamps and early 20th century real photo postcards. RetroReveal doesn't always help, but it is more successful than any other option I've tried.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
        

 

Author/Postings
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

08 Feb 2019
09:39:32am

Auctions - Approvals

Have pretty much come to a dead end on this one - went through Skinner & Eno, Cole, Stampsmarter, etc. Probably just missed it but if someone has come across it before help would certainly be appreciated.

I did darken the image a bit to better show the cancel. Stamp is nicely centered for a 65 and it has a military address.

Thanks for the assistance

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
musicman

APS #213005
09 Feb 2019
09:28:48pm

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Carol,

I searched thru Hurst-Sampson's "19th Century U.S. Fancy Cancels",

Loso/Windt's "20th Century U.S. Fancy Cancels"

and "U.S. Postmarks And Cancellations" by the Philatelic Foundation

and I found not a single hourglass cancel of any description;

however, I did find a couple of negative anchor cancels that - to my eye -

look as if they MIGHT be similar.

I created a reverse-color image in paint of your posted image and it COULD be possible...??


Image Not Found



Then again, I could be totally wrong...



Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
vinman

09 Feb 2019
09:39:05pm

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

It looks like a four point star cancel.

Vince

Check this site page 67, GE-R 49

https://d2jf3tgwe889fp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/CL-TP-SKINNER-ENO-United-States-Cancellations-1845-1869-Skinner-and-Eno-Bookmarked.pdf

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"The best in Big Band and Swing Music WRDV.org"

wrdv.org/
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

09 Feb 2019
09:47:03pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Thanks - interesting what you can do with paint to come up with a more recognizable image. Will sift through stuff again..... Since it's from NY it is doubtful it has escaped identification although in going through Stampsmarter I found a bunch of early cancels I had in my question boxes identified as NY Foreign mail. I know the later ones (1870's) but had no idea of the earlier ones.....

Also just remembered I have several Billigs on the shelf, some of which have fancies in them.

Thanks again.

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

09 Feb 2019
10:02:41pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

And certainly looks like GE-R-49 with a circle, partial circle, or damaged circle around it...

Thanks

Image Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
10 Feb 2019
04:31:45am

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Hi Carol,
I think using RetroReveal is the best way to enhance a weak cancel. RetroReveal is a free online service which works by splitting the color channels. (This can also be done in some graphics applications like PhotoShop, but RetroReveal is much easier to work with for most folks.)
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

Unlike many image manipulations, I like splitting the color channels because it is not ‘adding’ graphical information but rather is ‘removing’ graphical information. By splitting out the color channels, the isolation often assists us in seeing what is really there.
I wrote a short ‘How To’ article on RetroReveal (with link to RetroReveal) here

http://stampsmarter.com/learning/HowToUseRetroReveal.html
Don

Like 
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

10 Feb 2019
05:58:08am

Auctions - Approvals

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Thank you very much Don. I am beginning to go to your site more and more often BEFORE asking questions and am always amazed at the amount of information available and how easy it is to find. It is the gold standard of what a reference website should be and a treasure for serious philatelists.

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
10 Feb 2019
08:21:32am

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Hi Carol,
Thank you for the kind words.
I was not able to find a double circle duplex exactly like yours for NYC but found this similar 1863 duplex.

Image Not Found

And here are some other cancels from NY and the same era which are also similar.

Image Not Found
Image Not Found
Image Not Found

Don

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
Members Picture
musicman

APS #213005
10 Feb 2019
08:42:31am

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Don,

Thanks for the info on the Retroreveal site - I'm all signed up and using it now!


How did you get the black & white cancel image graphically removed from the stamp?

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
10 Feb 2019
09:09:15am

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

Hi Randall,
I started with the RetroReveal site image, and then used PhotoShop to manually cut away the things I could detect by eye.
Don

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

stampsmarter.org
Members Picture
keesindy

10 Feb 2019
09:20:36am

re: Hourglass cancel - 1860's ?

I agree with Don regarding RetroReveal. I've used the site several times in recent years to reveal otherwise unrecognizable information on stamps and early 20th century real photo postcards. RetroReveal doesn't always help, but it is more successful than any other option I've tried.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I no longer collect, but will never abandon the hobby"
        

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