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It is a railroad parcel post stamp. Bavarian State Railroad.
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Yes, I know it's a railway stamp. I have the entire set. But used for postage? It's a parcel post stamp, really a private revenue. Can we account for its use as postage? I realize 1919 was a time of chaos in Germany.
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@BWschulz,
Yes, you are right, these "Stempelmarken" ( sorry can not translate that word ) are rarely used by post.
The use of a "Stempelmarke" is a way of paying cash (fees stamp), taxes (tax stamp) or duties, especially when dealing with offices.
The fee paid is called stamp duty.
Stamp duty or stamp tax is a term for taxes, i.e. both taxes and fees that are raised by stamping the relevant papers or objects with a stamp and often a "stempelmarke".
The stamp taxes essentially coincide with the traffic taxes.
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Do not know if you can read German but this is the site you're looking for :
https://www.fiskalphilatelie.de/
Go to the menu-item FACHARTIKEL
There is a piece that handles about "Eisenbahnmarken der Königl. Preußischen Militär-Eisenbahn" or Railroad stamps of the Royal Military Prussian Railroad
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I have some railway stamps from Prussia and that's an interesting web site. But the stamp above is from the Bavarian State Railway. And instead of paying freight is used for postage.
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Aside from the use of the railway stamp, this letter was apparently mis-sent. It is addressed to Bibra, Post Rentwertshausen. That's in southern Thuringia. Instead, someone read "Libau" and routed the letter to Libau = Liepaja in Latvia. Curiouser and curiouser ...
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I found this article about TRAINMAIL "das Mittelschwäbisches Heimatmuseum Krumbach, 2011"
I translated it to the English language.
Maybe there are some flaws in it.
Well in the next post the story of that museum in the town KRUMBACH.
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Train mail by Florian L. Arnold
Term
Rail mail is the processing of mail items in railroad cars. These wagons, known as "postal wagons", were part of a regular train. Self-driving mail coaches, on the other hand, are known as mail railcars.
If postal items are carried in a conventional freight wagon, one no longer speaks of "rail mail".
History
The Baden postal administration used the new rail means of transport as soon as it went into operation in 1840 to take mail. Due to the presence of postal officials in the wagon ("Postcon-ducteure") who processed mail during the journey, it was finally referred to as "rail mail".
The first rail mail coach in Germany went into operation on April 1, 1848 in Baden ( 1). In 1849, the first railway posts were set up in Prussia. The railway mail then gradually replaced the transport of mail by postal riders and mail coaches in all old German states and thus became the most important pillar of long-distance mail transport in the time of the Reichspost. In 1882 the first Bavarian "railway post office" was established in Munich; Nuremberg followed in 1890, Würzburg and Augsburg in 1898.(2)
In addition, Prussia had already created a legal regulation in 1838, according to which postal goods, mail wagons and the postal staff accompanying the consignments were to be transported free of charge. In its own "Eisenbahnpostgesetz" of 1875 this was regulated for all of Germany; the regulation applied until the 1924 (3) Reichsbahn Act came into force. Since then, compensation has been paid according to axle kilometers.
Typology of the railway mail van
A distinction is made between different types of rail mail wagons or rail mail facilities depending on their equipment:
• Mail train mail car for the exclusive processing of letters
• Parcel railway post wagon for the exclusive processing of parcels
• All-rail mail car for processing letters and parcels
• Parcel trolleys that were only intended for the transport and reworking of packages
• Mail compartments in train wagons that were also used for other purposes Rail mail wagons had to be equipped with yellow flags on each long side of the wagon. (4) Rail mail wagons also had to, even if they were empty, i.e. without personnel in the wagon, be illuminated at night. (5)
The Deutsche Bundesbahn had so-called express trains, which consisted exclusively of rail mail coaches; they operated as "express freight trains (Expr)", later also "Ex-pressIC", on the German State Railroad of the GDR as "freight express trains (Gex)". Until 1997, special “Post-InterCity” cars operated in Germany at speeds of up to 200 km / h. Letters and parcels were sorted in these wagons in the traditional way while driving. (6)
Post processing
The most important criterion of a railway post wagon is the sorting of the consignments during the journey. Only then is "Bahnpost" spoken in the literal sense. Rail mail cars are characterized by their own postal facilities such as letter boxes and tensioning devices for mail bags (7). Up to 20 postal officers (postal officers, later train post attendants) sorted the letters and newspapers by location.(8) The staff had to have good geographical knowledge.
Railway mail wagons were either placed on passenger trains or formed their own mail trains.(9) There were also mail compartments as part of luggage wagons or railcars. Most of the rail mail wagons also had "wagon mailboxes". Anyone who had a good knowledge of the rail mail lines could thus gain a decisive time advantage compared to delivering them to a conventional, stationary mailbox - by posting the letter directly in the rail mail van.(10) These were mail thrown into the letter slot of a rail mail van while it was at a station is called "train station letter" or "station shipment" (11); it was stamped in the car with a "Bahnpoststempel".
The "Bahnpoststempel" contained the following information:
• Course (e.g. "TANNH.-DKSCHB ', means:" Thannhausen über Dinkelscherben")
• Train number
• Date
In addition, there was the special "Bahnpoststempel" with the addition "canceled later" for items that were delivered by the Bahnpostamt and whose stamps had not yet been canceled. On March 1, 1963, the "Kursbrief" replaced the previous "Bahnhofsbrief". On August 31, 1989, course letters were replaced by the “Datapost” shipping form
Letters with train postmarks, especially from rare secondary routes or special journeys, are very popular with collectors today.
Onward transport - "letter bags"
It was common in Germany in the 19th century to drop “letter bags” at train stations while the train was passing through. The bags were therefore not allowed to weigh more than six kilograms. They were thrown sideways in the direction of the train. Upon reaching the drop point, the driver gave a whistle with a steam whistle. The officer present on the platform to receive the bags carried in the dark a lantern with frosted glass panes, one of which had the inscription “Post”; this inscription was held up to the train. (13)
The bags with the respective local or route mail were unloaded at the stop and loaded for on-site forwarding or for continuation to other rail mail routes. From the time before the First World War, it is known that around 2400 rail mail coaches with around 8000 employees were in use in Germany.
Often there were accidents and damage to the items when they were dropped; therefore, this procedure was discontinued in Germany in 1900 and in Bavaria on May 1, 1904
The end of the rail mail
After the Second World War, postal transport by train was slow; the strong war effects on the rail infrastructure were to blame. Where lines were not completely destroyed, the shortage of energy thwarted a regulated railway post office. In addition, after 1945 there was a lack of nearly usable rail mail coaches. However, in the years leading up to the founding of the Federal Republic, the connection was re-established so quickly that on September 1, 1948, the first rail post connection was made beyond the national borders - between Frankfurt am Main and Venlo what a high degree of improvisation, despite destroyed infrastructure, a reliable delivery of mail items has been made possible. The number of railroad stations rose rapidly after 1949 and peaked in the 1950s.
With the introduction of postcodes in Germany in 1961, the number of train stations decreased continuously. With the unification of the two German states and the change of timetable in the summer of 1997, the end of the Federal German rail mail came. Rail mail operations (for letter mail) were discontinued after the last load from May 30 to May 31, 1997 (16). 17 main reasons for the hiring were the assumption of the sorting by the highly automated mail distribution centers, which were mostly planned without a rail connection, and the establishment of the German night airmail network. Deutsche Post AG said that Deutsche Bahn was unable to maintain the "desired schedule locations".
Railway mail museum
The "Bundesarbeitsgemeinschaft Bahnpost e.V." operates a fully equipped train mail coach in Losheim am See and uses the received carriages in historical special postal trains or runs them as special trains of the museum railway. The museum maintains exchanges of information and partnerships with similar associations in England, France and the USA; In cooperation with Deutsche Post and Deutsche Bahn AG, a separate "Bahnpost-Bibliothek" is also being built, which is housed at the Frankfurt "Verein für Briefmarkenkunde 1878 eV" (Frankfurt / Main). (18) 13 historic rail mail coaches of all eras "Museums for Communication" are parked in the Augsburg railway park.
Notes:
1 Diese erste Bahnpostroute verlief zwischen Heidelberg und Schliengen.
2 Der wachsende Verkehrsumfang erforderte eine Dezentralisierung; so entstanden 1886 eine „Generaldirektion der Staatseisenbahnen“ und eine „Direktion der kgl. bayerischen Posten und Telegraphen“.
3 Seitdem erfolgt eine Vergütung nach Achskilometern.
4 Dienstvorschrift DV 301 (Signalbuch) der Deutschen Reichsbahn Gesellschaft in der Fassung vom 28. November 1934.
5 Ebenda
6 Parcel InterCity: Angebot wird verdoppelt. In: Eisenbahn-Kurier, Nr. 345, Juni 2001, S. 9. ISSN 0170-5288.
7 so genannte „Beutelspannen“
8 Eine an den Wagen gesteckte gelbe Fahne signalisierte dem Rangierlokführer den Aufenthalt von Personen im Wagen, so dass vorsichtig rangiert wurde.
9 In Frankreich sind einige TGV („TGV postal“) komplett für die Postbeförderung eingerichtet.
10 Zum 1. Juni 1889 sind solche „Bahnhofsbriefe“ auch Gegenstand der allgemeinen Postordnung. Sie dürfen maximal 250g wiegen; zusätzlich zum üblichen Briefporto ist eine monatliche Gebühr von 12 Reichsmark zu entrichten. Seit dem 1. April 1900, wenn die Beförderung binnen kürzeren Fristen als einem Monat erfolgen sollte, wurde diese Gebühr auf 4 Mark für die Woche oder einen Teil einer Woche ermäßigt. Während der Zeit der
Inflation stiegen diese Sätze mit. So betrug die Gebühr am 26. November 1923 = 2.400 bzw. 800 Milliarden Mark, am 1. Dezember 1923 wieder 12 bzw. 4 Mark.
11 Solche Versendungen waren vom Empfänger unmittelbar nach Ankunft des Zuges am Zielbahnhof in Empfang zu nehmen.
12 Informationen laut Homepage des Bahnpostmuseums Losheim. Stand: 3. August 2011. http://www.bahnpostmuseum.eu
13 Eisenbahn-Signalordnung vom 24. Juni 1907, Reichsgesetzblatt S. 377f.
14 Das Verfahren des Postbeutelabwurfs war bis in die Mitte der 1950er Jahre in Großbritannien und den USA noch gebräuchlich. Jedoch werden die Beutel nicht abgeworfen, sondern von der Bahnpost in ein Gestell gelegt, welches in der Nähe des Bestimmungsbahnhofes nach außen geschoben wird.
15 Informationen laut „Wikipedia.de“, ohne Quellenangaben, Seite „Postgeschichte und Briefmarken Deutschlands unter alliierter Besetzung“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Postgeschichte_und_Briefmarken_Deutschlands_unter_alliierter_Besetzung), Stand: 3. August 2011
16 In: Post wieder auf die Bahn? Eisenbahn-Kurier, Nr. 300, Sept.1998. S. 6. ISSN 0170-5288
17 Informationen laut Homepage des Bahnpostmuseums Losheim. Stand: 3. August 2011. www.bahnpostmuseum.eu
18 Information der Homepage des Bahnpostmuseums Losheim. Stand: 3. August 2011. www.bahnpostmuseum.eu.
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07:03:53pm
I bought this suspecting it's fakery, but I really do not know. Can you help?
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08:58:18pm
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
It is a railroad parcel post stamp. Bavarian State Railroad.
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09:06:35pm
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
Yes, I know it's a railway stamp. I have the entire set. But used for postage? It's a parcel post stamp, really a private revenue. Can we account for its use as postage? I realize 1919 was a time of chaos in Germany.
Login to Like
this post
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
@BWschulz,
Yes, you are right, these "Stempelmarken" ( sorry can not translate that word ) are rarely used by post.
The use of a "Stempelmarke" is a way of paying cash (fees stamp), taxes (tax stamp) or duties, especially when dealing with offices.
The fee paid is called stamp duty.
Stamp duty or stamp tax is a term for taxes, i.e. both taxes and fees that are raised by stamping the relevant papers or objects with a stamp and often a "stempelmarke".
The stamp taxes essentially coincide with the traffic taxes.
Login to Like
this post
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
Do not know if you can read German but this is the site you're looking for :
https://www.fiskalphilatelie.de/
Go to the menu-item FACHARTIKEL
There is a piece that handles about "Eisenbahnmarken der Königl. Preußischen Militär-Eisenbahn" or Railroad stamps of the Royal Military Prussian Railroad
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02:47:07pm
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
I have some railway stamps from Prussia and that's an interesting web site. But the stamp above is from the Bavarian State Railway. And instead of paying freight is used for postage.
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05:12:19am
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
Aside from the use of the railway stamp, this letter was apparently mis-sent. It is addressed to Bibra, Post Rentwertshausen. That's in southern Thuringia. Instead, someone read "Libau" and routed the letter to Libau = Liepaja in Latvia. Curiouser and curiouser ...
Login to Like
this post
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
I found this article about TRAINMAIL "das Mittelschwäbisches Heimatmuseum Krumbach, 2011"
I translated it to the English language.
Maybe there are some flaws in it.
Well in the next post the story of that museum in the town KRUMBACH.
Login to Like
this post
re: Bavaria: Fake? Philatelic Fancy? Or legit use?
Train mail by Florian L. Arnold
Term
Rail mail is the processing of mail items in railroad cars. These wagons, known as "postal wagons", were part of a regular train. Self-driving mail coaches, on the other hand, are known as mail railcars.
If postal items are carried in a conventional freight wagon, one no longer speaks of "rail mail".
History
The Baden postal administration used the new rail means of transport as soon as it went into operation in 1840 to take mail. Due to the presence of postal officials in the wagon ("Postcon-ducteure") who processed mail during the journey, it was finally referred to as "rail mail".
The first rail mail coach in Germany went into operation on April 1, 1848 in Baden ( 1). In 1849, the first railway posts were set up in Prussia. The railway mail then gradually replaced the transport of mail by postal riders and mail coaches in all old German states and thus became the most important pillar of long-distance mail transport in the time of the Reichspost. In 1882 the first Bavarian "railway post office" was established in Munich; Nuremberg followed in 1890, Würzburg and Augsburg in 1898.(2)
In addition, Prussia had already created a legal regulation in 1838, according to which postal goods, mail wagons and the postal staff accompanying the consignments were to be transported free of charge. In its own "Eisenbahnpostgesetz" of 1875 this was regulated for all of Germany; the regulation applied until the 1924 (3) Reichsbahn Act came into force. Since then, compensation has been paid according to axle kilometers.
Typology of the railway mail van
A distinction is made between different types of rail mail wagons or rail mail facilities depending on their equipment:
• Mail train mail car for the exclusive processing of letters
• Parcel railway post wagon for the exclusive processing of parcels
• All-rail mail car for processing letters and parcels
• Parcel trolleys that were only intended for the transport and reworking of packages
• Mail compartments in train wagons that were also used for other purposes Rail mail wagons had to be equipped with yellow flags on each long side of the wagon. (4) Rail mail wagons also had to, even if they were empty, i.e. without personnel in the wagon, be illuminated at night. (5)
The Deutsche Bundesbahn had so-called express trains, which consisted exclusively of rail mail coaches; they operated as "express freight trains (Expr)", later also "Ex-pressIC", on the German State Railroad of the GDR as "freight express trains (Gex)". Until 1997, special “Post-InterCity” cars operated in Germany at speeds of up to 200 km / h. Letters and parcels were sorted in these wagons in the traditional way while driving. (6)
Post processing
The most important criterion of a railway post wagon is the sorting of the consignments during the journey. Only then is "Bahnpost" spoken in the literal sense. Rail mail cars are characterized by their own postal facilities such as letter boxes and tensioning devices for mail bags (7). Up to 20 postal officers (postal officers, later train post attendants) sorted the letters and newspapers by location.(8) The staff had to have good geographical knowledge.
Railway mail wagons were either placed on passenger trains or formed their own mail trains.(9) There were also mail compartments as part of luggage wagons or railcars. Most of the rail mail wagons also had "wagon mailboxes". Anyone who had a good knowledge of the rail mail lines could thus gain a decisive time advantage compared to delivering them to a conventional, stationary mailbox - by posting the letter directly in the rail mail van.(10) These were mail thrown into the letter slot of a rail mail van while it was at a station is called "train station letter" or "station shipment" (11); it was stamped in the car with a "Bahnpoststempel".
The "Bahnpoststempel" contained the following information:
• Course (e.g. "TANNH.-DKSCHB ', means:" Thannhausen über Dinkelscherben")
• Train number
• Date
In addition, there was the special "Bahnpoststempel" with the addition "canceled later" for items that were delivered by the Bahnpostamt and whose stamps had not yet been canceled. On March 1, 1963, the "Kursbrief" replaced the previous "Bahnhofsbrief". On August 31, 1989, course letters were replaced by the “Datapost” shipping form
Letters with train postmarks, especially from rare secondary routes or special journeys, are very popular with collectors today.
Onward transport - "letter bags"
It was common in Germany in the 19th century to drop “letter bags” at train stations while the train was passing through. The bags were therefore not allowed to weigh more than six kilograms. They were thrown sideways in the direction of the train. Upon reaching the drop point, the driver gave a whistle with a steam whistle. The officer present on the platform to receive the bags carried in the dark a lantern with frosted glass panes, one of which had the inscription “Post”; this inscription was held up to the train. (13)
The bags with the respective local or route mail were unloaded at the stop and loaded for on-site forwarding or for continuation to other rail mail routes. From the time before the First World War, it is known that around 2400 rail mail coaches with around 8000 employees were in use in Germany.
Often there were accidents and damage to the items when they were dropped; therefore, this procedure was discontinued in Germany in 1900 and in Bavaria on May 1, 1904
The end of the rail mail
After the Second World War, postal transport by train was slow; the strong war effects on the rail infrastructure were to blame. Where lines were not completely destroyed, the shortage of energy thwarted a regulated railway post office. In addition, after 1945 there was a lack of nearly usable rail mail coaches. However, in the years leading up to the founding of the Federal Republic, the connection was re-established so quickly that on September 1, 1948, the first rail post connection was made beyond the national borders - between Frankfurt am Main and Venlo what a high degree of improvisation, despite destroyed infrastructure, a reliable delivery of mail items has been made possible. The number of railroad stations rose rapidly after 1949 and peaked in the 1950s.
With the introduction of postcodes in Germany in 1961, the number of train stations decreased continuously. With the unification of the two German states and the change of timetable in the summer of 1997, the end of the Federal German rail mail came. Rail mail operations (for letter mail) were discontinued after the last load from May 30 to May 31, 1997 (16). 17 main reasons for the hiring were the assumption of the sorting by the highly automated mail distribution centers, which were mostly planned without a rail connection, and the establishment of the German night airmail network. Deutsche Post AG said that Deutsche Bahn was unable to maintain the "desired schedule locations".
Railway mail museum
The "Bundesarbeitsgemeinschaft Bahnpost e.V." operates a fully equipped train mail coach in Losheim am See and uses the received carriages in historical special postal trains or runs them as special trains of the museum railway. The museum maintains exchanges of information and partnerships with similar associations in England, France and the USA; In cooperation with Deutsche Post and Deutsche Bahn AG, a separate "Bahnpost-Bibliothek" is also being built, which is housed at the Frankfurt "Verein für Briefmarkenkunde 1878 eV" (Frankfurt / Main). (18) 13 historic rail mail coaches of all eras "Museums for Communication" are parked in the Augsburg railway park.
Notes:
1 Diese erste Bahnpostroute verlief zwischen Heidelberg und Schliengen.
2 Der wachsende Verkehrsumfang erforderte eine Dezentralisierung; so entstanden 1886 eine „Generaldirektion der Staatseisenbahnen“ und eine „Direktion der kgl. bayerischen Posten und Telegraphen“.
3 Seitdem erfolgt eine Vergütung nach Achskilometern.
4 Dienstvorschrift DV 301 (Signalbuch) der Deutschen Reichsbahn Gesellschaft in der Fassung vom 28. November 1934.
5 Ebenda
6 Parcel InterCity: Angebot wird verdoppelt. In: Eisenbahn-Kurier, Nr. 345, Juni 2001, S. 9. ISSN 0170-5288.
7 so genannte „Beutelspannen“
8 Eine an den Wagen gesteckte gelbe Fahne signalisierte dem Rangierlokführer den Aufenthalt von Personen im Wagen, so dass vorsichtig rangiert wurde.
9 In Frankreich sind einige TGV („TGV postal“) komplett für die Postbeförderung eingerichtet.
10 Zum 1. Juni 1889 sind solche „Bahnhofsbriefe“ auch Gegenstand der allgemeinen Postordnung. Sie dürfen maximal 250g wiegen; zusätzlich zum üblichen Briefporto ist eine monatliche Gebühr von 12 Reichsmark zu entrichten. Seit dem 1. April 1900, wenn die Beförderung binnen kürzeren Fristen als einem Monat erfolgen sollte, wurde diese Gebühr auf 4 Mark für die Woche oder einen Teil einer Woche ermäßigt. Während der Zeit der
Inflation stiegen diese Sätze mit. So betrug die Gebühr am 26. November 1923 = 2.400 bzw. 800 Milliarden Mark, am 1. Dezember 1923 wieder 12 bzw. 4 Mark.
11 Solche Versendungen waren vom Empfänger unmittelbar nach Ankunft des Zuges am Zielbahnhof in Empfang zu nehmen.
12 Informationen laut Homepage des Bahnpostmuseums Losheim. Stand: 3. August 2011. http://www.bahnpostmuseum.eu
13 Eisenbahn-Signalordnung vom 24. Juni 1907, Reichsgesetzblatt S. 377f.
14 Das Verfahren des Postbeutelabwurfs war bis in die Mitte der 1950er Jahre in Großbritannien und den USA noch gebräuchlich. Jedoch werden die Beutel nicht abgeworfen, sondern von der Bahnpost in ein Gestell gelegt, welches in der Nähe des Bestimmungsbahnhofes nach außen geschoben wird.
15 Informationen laut „Wikipedia.de“, ohne Quellenangaben, Seite „Postgeschichte und Briefmarken Deutschlands unter alliierter Besetzung“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Postgeschichte_und_Briefmarken_Deutschlands_unter_alliierter_Besetzung), Stand: 3. August 2011
16 In: Post wieder auf die Bahn? Eisenbahn-Kurier, Nr. 300, Sept.1998. S. 6. ISSN 0170-5288
17 Informationen laut Homepage des Bahnpostmuseums Losheim. Stand: 3. August 2011. www.bahnpostmuseum.eu
18 Information der Homepage des Bahnpostmuseums Losheim. Stand: 3. August 2011. www.bahnpostmuseum.eu.
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