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Europe/Germany : Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

 

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

07 Mar 2020
04:55:59pm
Received in the mail today an unused Theresienstadt Parcel Admission Stamp as shown below.

The stamp depicts the surrounding landscape of Bohemia. The camp was established by the Germans in November 1941 about 40 miles north of Prague in the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia created after Nazi Germany occupied the western region of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. It was a multi-use camp, acting as a settlement, transit camp, and propaganda tool. The stamp, which was printed in Prague, was issued by the Prague Jewish Council beginning in July 1943. Inmates at Theresienstadt could receive inspected packages of food and clothing from people outside the camp if the packages had this stamp. An inmate could request a package every two months. The Jewish Council in Prague would notify the sender to come pick up the stamp if they lived in Prague, if they lived outside of Prague, the stamp would be attached to the notice. Living conditions in the camp were horrible and about 33,000 inmates died there. On May 2, 1945, as the end of the war approached, the International Red Cross took over administration of the camp. The German staff fled on May 5 and 6, and on May 9. Soviet troops arrived and assumed responsibility.

Image Not Found

This stamp is very often faked. Some are so good that even the fakes are faked. In addition signatures on the back are also often faked. I am by no means and expert, but I researched this stamp over a 3 month period. I had the seller send me a full screen 600 DPI picture so that I could make out the details that separate the fakes from the real item. I cannot make out the signature on the back, nor could the seller. After receiving the stamp, I studied under my microscope to look for any signs that would cause me concern and found none. I am fairly confident that the stamp is genuine, but will be sending to the BPP for authentication.

Although not listed in Scotts, it is listed in Michel and completes my collection of German Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia 1939-1945.


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HockeyNut
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08 Mar 2020
10:12:53am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Hello mbo1142,

Did you read one of my posts earlier?

https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=24149#171232

The second picture has a blue cross from a pencil.

Have you looked very closely on the front of the stamp? Is it really not used in any kind of way like my example in the above link?
If not than the signature on the back is on the wrong side of the stamp and most likely FALSCH / FORGED
Cancelled stamps are ALWAYS signed on the right side
MNH stamps ALWAYS on the left side of the stamp.

See my other post on this forum :

https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=23169#171068

I do not recognize this sign on the back of the stamp too.

If you really want some information on this stamp goto the folowwing link :

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-theresienstadt/

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

08 Mar 2020
10:57:51am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Morning HockeyNut,

I have read all your post and find them most informative and interesting. I looked at your post about the second picture and do not see any blue cross with pencil. I see the star, but is printed on the paper just like the other two pictures.

I fully understand the placement of expert marks on the back of stamps, but my question is when did the formal placement start? Could an expert mark have been placed prior to the time the placement positions were formalized?

I did fully research the stamp and did use the web site you mentioned. My stamp meets all the criteria, specifically all 6 points indicated in the picture of a real stamp. I also used the following:

https://www.filatelia.fi/experts/namesa.html

https://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/Hel_JvS/helgoland_proofer_signatures.htm

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-theresienstadt/

https://www.stampsx.com/ratgeber/ratgeber-theresienstadt.php

As mentioned in my post, I am by no means an expert. That is why I will be sending for certification. Some times I get lucky.

Thank you for your interest.

Mel

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HockeyNut
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08 Mar 2020
11:22:23am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Hello Mel,

As I write this it is 16:00 hours here. I think it is still morning overthere??

Well if you checked out all those points and there all oke. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

And about the blue cross. I have darkend the picture and now he looks like this :

Image Not Found

See the blue cross now?

Well futhermore I wish you luck with the certification.

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

08 Mar 2020
11:38:55am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Yes, it is still morning here. Just went on daylight saving time and it is now 10:31. I must apologize, I only looked at the last picture you posted. Went back to the beginning and I do see the blue cross you mention. I cannot find any mark on the front of the stamp and that, along with the position of the mark on the back is the only thing that has me concerned.

Before I send for certification, do you have any recommendations on where to send? I plan to send to BPP, but would like to use someone in the US to save on cost.

Regards, Mel

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HockeyNut
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08 Mar 2020
07:00:35pm
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Phuh, recommendations.......

Well BPP ofcourse but then you have to send it to Germany.
But before you go into that read the following carefully.....

https://www.bpp.de/en/expertising-rules/
More on the menu ABOUT US.

I do not know if there are BPP certified people in the States.
I took a quick peek and saw only : Germany, Austria, Sweden, Switzerland

Expertiser GILBERT died a couple of years ago and I believe PÄTOW (or PAETOW without the A umlaut) too.

Expertiser of BOHMEN UND MAHREN is now-a-days Mister DETLEF PFEIFFER.

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

08 Mar 2020
11:25:15pm
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

WOW! Just read the BPP rules from the link you posted. Very informative and precise. I have already sent an email to Mr. DETLEF PFEIFFER asking for his address and price. Found his email address on one of the Web sites I researched.

I also sent an email to the German Philatelic Society here in the US asking if they knew of anyone in the states that would be suitable for expertising the stamp.

Will let you know if I get any responses.

Best Wishes, Mel

PS: Thought I had already sent this response, but must have hit the wrong button. If a duplicate, I apologize.

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HockeyNut
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09 Mar 2020
08:50:45am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Glad to help.

Detlef Pfeiffer
Marksuhler Ring 9
71126 Gäufelden-Öschelbronn
Deutschland

pfeiffer-detlef@t-online.de

Expert areas
Bohemia and Moravia
Generalgouvernement
Mährisch-Ostrau Michel Nos. 1 – 63

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sheepshanks
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10 Mar 2020
11:42:43am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Presume these apply to the genuine stamp and not the forgery.

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

10 Mar 2020
03:16:32pm
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Can you tell me where you found the information you just posted regarding the stamp. I want to add it to my bookmarks for future reference.

Thanks,

Mel

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SForgCa
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10 Mar 2020
06:54:36pm
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

@mbo1142
one of my 150+ articles on WW forgeries (+1700 pages for now) - a 5 page article
I occasionally publish some on another site & will/might eventually publish a book
No website or blog access - too busy to maintain

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HockeyNut
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11 Mar 2020
06:01:00am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Mel,
I told you in the previous post,

"If you really want some information on this stamp goto the folowwing link :
http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-theresienstadt/
"



on the first picture there are numbers on the stamp.
when you move your mouse over one of these numbers you get the description just like SForgCa did in his picture here.

I even guess that the link I gave you is HIS site.
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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

11 Mar 2020
08:05:38am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

I have already been to that site and have it bookmarked. In fact that is where I got most of my information regarding the stamp I have and where I found the information regarding Mr. Detlef Pfeiffer. That site only shows 6 items to look for. The picture posted by SForgCa shows 8 different items to look for and for the reason I was looking to add an additional source.

My stamp is on its way to Mr. Detlef Pfeiffer and when it returns, I will post here.

Mel

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SForgCa
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11 Mar 2020
09:50:25am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

"HockeyNut -I even guess that the link I gave you is HIS site."


That would not be the case

When MBO1142 gets his Cert. I will post a link to a "somewhat different" article than the one linked

With any luck, the cert will be like this one
Image Not Found

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

11 Mar 2020
11:04:22am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

08 Jun 2020
02:17:53pm
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

GUESS WHAT CAME IN THE MAIL TODAY, 2 1/2 MONTHS AFTER MAILING FROM GERMANY!!!!!

Image Not Found

I am no a happy camper.

Mel

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lemaven
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08 Jun 2020
02:39:19pm
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Mel.

After waiting so long for the certificate I was surprised to read your comment, "I am no a happy camper". Very sorry to hear you are disappointed, so being the friend I am ... I will take the stamp off your hands.

Meanwhile, I'll keep my fingers crossed this was just bad grammar caused by months of isolation, not a bad typo or a stuck "w" key...

Dave.

Big Grin

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mbo1142
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

08 Jun 2020
03:56:59pm
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Dave,

Nice try.Rolling On The Floor Laughing I was so excited that I did not even spel check Big Grin

Mel

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HockeyNut
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09 Jun 2020
05:31:32am
re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Congratulations Mel.

Great piece to have and now certified too.

Happy

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
07 Mar 2020
04:55:59pm

Received in the mail today an unused Theresienstadt Parcel Admission Stamp as shown below.

The stamp depicts the surrounding landscape of Bohemia. The camp was established by the Germans in November 1941 about 40 miles north of Prague in the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia created after Nazi Germany occupied the western region of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. It was a multi-use camp, acting as a settlement, transit camp, and propaganda tool. The stamp, which was printed in Prague, was issued by the Prague Jewish Council beginning in July 1943. Inmates at Theresienstadt could receive inspected packages of food and clothing from people outside the camp if the packages had this stamp. An inmate could request a package every two months. The Jewish Council in Prague would notify the sender to come pick up the stamp if they lived in Prague, if they lived outside of Prague, the stamp would be attached to the notice. Living conditions in the camp were horrible and about 33,000 inmates died there. On May 2, 1945, as the end of the war approached, the International Red Cross took over administration of the camp. The German staff fled on May 5 and 6, and on May 9. Soviet troops arrived and assumed responsibility.

Image Not Found

This stamp is very often faked. Some are so good that even the fakes are faked. In addition signatures on the back are also often faked. I am by no means and expert, but I researched this stamp over a 3 month period. I had the seller send me a full screen 600 DPI picture so that I could make out the details that separate the fakes from the real item. I cannot make out the signature on the back, nor could the seller. After receiving the stamp, I studied under my microscope to look for any signs that would cause me concern and found none. I am fairly confident that the stamp is genuine, but will be sending to the BPP for authentication.

Although not listed in Scotts, it is listed in Michel and completes my collection of German Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia 1939-1945.


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HockeyNut

08 Mar 2020
10:12:53am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Hello mbo1142,

Did you read one of my posts earlier?

https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=24149#171232

The second picture has a blue cross from a pencil.

Have you looked very closely on the front of the stamp? Is it really not used in any kind of way like my example in the above link?
If not than the signature on the back is on the wrong side of the stamp and most likely FALSCH / FORGED
Cancelled stamps are ALWAYS signed on the right side
MNH stamps ALWAYS on the left side of the stamp.

See my other post on this forum :

https://stamporama.com/discboard/disc_main.php?action=20&id=23169#171068

I do not recognize this sign on the back of the stamp too.

If you really want some information on this stamp goto the folowwing link :

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-theresienstadt/

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
08 Mar 2020
10:57:51am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Morning HockeyNut,

I have read all your post and find them most informative and interesting. I looked at your post about the second picture and do not see any blue cross with pencil. I see the star, but is printed on the paper just like the other two pictures.

I fully understand the placement of expert marks on the back of stamps, but my question is when did the formal placement start? Could an expert mark have been placed prior to the time the placement positions were formalized?

I did fully research the stamp and did use the web site you mentioned. My stamp meets all the criteria, specifically all 6 points indicated in the picture of a real stamp. I also used the following:

https://www.filatelia.fi/experts/namesa.html

https://www.fritzwagner.com/helgoland/Hel_JvS/helgoland_proofer_signatures.htm

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-theresienstadt/

https://www.stampsx.com/ratgeber/ratgeber-theresienstadt.php

As mentioned in my post, I am by no means an expert. That is why I will be sending for certification. Some times I get lucky.

Thank you for your interest.

Mel

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HockeyNut

08 Mar 2020
11:22:23am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Hello Mel,

As I write this it is 16:00 hours here. I think it is still morning overthere??

Well if you checked out all those points and there all oke. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

And about the blue cross. I have darkend the picture and now he looks like this :

Image Not Found

See the blue cross now?

Well futhermore I wish you luck with the certification.

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
08 Mar 2020
11:38:55am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Yes, it is still morning here. Just went on daylight saving time and it is now 10:31. I must apologize, I only looked at the last picture you posted. Went back to the beginning and I do see the blue cross you mention. I cannot find any mark on the front of the stamp and that, along with the position of the mark on the back is the only thing that has me concerned.

Before I send for certification, do you have any recommendations on where to send? I plan to send to BPP, but would like to use someone in the US to save on cost.

Regards, Mel

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HockeyNut

08 Mar 2020
07:00:35pm

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Phuh, recommendations.......

Well BPP ofcourse but then you have to send it to Germany.
But before you go into that read the following carefully.....

https://www.bpp.de/en/expertising-rules/
More on the menu ABOUT US.

I do not know if there are BPP certified people in the States.
I took a quick peek and saw only : Germany, Austria, Sweden, Switzerland

Expertiser GILBERT died a couple of years ago and I believe PÄTOW (or PAETOW without the A umlaut) too.

Expertiser of BOHMEN UND MAHREN is now-a-days Mister DETLEF PFEIFFER.

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
08 Mar 2020
11:25:15pm

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

WOW! Just read the BPP rules from the link you posted. Very informative and precise. I have already sent an email to Mr. DETLEF PFEIFFER asking for his address and price. Found his email address on one of the Web sites I researched.

I also sent an email to the German Philatelic Society here in the US asking if they knew of anyone in the states that would be suitable for expertising the stamp.

Will let you know if I get any responses.

Best Wishes, Mel

PS: Thought I had already sent this response, but must have hit the wrong button. If a duplicate, I apologize.

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HockeyNut

09 Mar 2020
08:50:45am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Glad to help.

Detlef Pfeiffer
Marksuhler Ring 9
71126 Gäufelden-Öschelbronn
Deutschland

pfeiffer-detlef@t-online.de

Expert areas
Bohemia and Moravia
Generalgouvernement
Mährisch-Ostrau Michel Nos. 1 – 63

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sheepshanks

10 Mar 2020
11:42:43am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Presume these apply to the genuine stamp and not the forgery.

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
10 Mar 2020
03:16:32pm

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Can you tell me where you found the information you just posted regarding the stamp. I want to add it to my bookmarks for future reference.

Thanks,

Mel

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SForgCa

10 Mar 2020
06:54:36pm

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

@mbo1142
one of my 150+ articles on WW forgeries (+1700 pages for now) - a 5 page article
I occasionally publish some on another site & will/might eventually publish a book
No website or blog access - too busy to maintain

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HockeyNut

11 Mar 2020
06:01:00am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Mel,
I told you in the previous post,

"If you really want some information on this stamp goto the folowwing link :
http://stampforgeries.com/forged-stamps-of-theresienstadt/
"



on the first picture there are numbers on the stamp.
when you move your mouse over one of these numbers you get the description just like SForgCa did in his picture here.

I even guess that the link I gave you is HIS site.
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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
11 Mar 2020
08:05:38am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

I have already been to that site and have it bookmarked. In fact that is where I got most of my information regarding the stamp I have and where I found the information regarding Mr. Detlef Pfeiffer. That site only shows 6 items to look for. The picture posted by SForgCa shows 8 different items to look for and for the reason I was looking to add an additional source.

My stamp is on its way to Mr. Detlef Pfeiffer and when it returns, I will post here.

Mel

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SForgCa

11 Mar 2020
09:50:25am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

"HockeyNut -I even guess that the link I gave you is HIS site."


That would not be the case

When MBO1142 gets his Cert. I will post a link to a "somewhat different" article than the one linked

With any luck, the cert will be like this one
Image Not Found

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
11 Mar 2020
11:04:22am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
08 Jun 2020
02:17:53pm

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

GUESS WHAT CAME IN THE MAIL TODAY, 2 1/2 MONTHS AFTER MAILING FROM GERMANY!!!!!

Image Not Found

I am no a happy camper.

Mel

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lemaven

08 Jun 2020
02:39:19pm

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Mel.

After waiting so long for the certificate I was surprised to read your comment, "I am no a happy camper". Very sorry to hear you are disappointed, so being the friend I am ... I will take the stamp off your hands.

Meanwhile, I'll keep my fingers crossed this was just bad grammar caused by months of isolation, not a bad typo or a stuck "w" key...

Dave.

Big Grin

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mbo1142

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
08 Jun 2020
03:56:59pm

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Dave,

Nice try.Rolling On The Floor Laughing I was so excited that I did not even spel check Big Grin

Mel

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HockeyNut

09 Jun 2020
05:31:32am

re: Theresienstadt Getto-Labor Camp Parcel Admission Stamp

Congratulations Mel.

Great piece to have and now certified too.

Happy

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