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General Philatelic/Identify This? : New Zealand Query

 

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
11:31:14am
Image Not Found

The stamps on the left are imperforate.

Some countries in the past have deliberately issued imperforated sheetlets.

Has New Zealand done the same?

My Stanley Gibbons New Zealand catalogue only goes up to 2005.
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sheepshanks
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29 Mar 2021
02:49:13pm
re: New Zealand Query

Only suggestion I can come up with is they were from a self adhesive sheet and cut rather than peeled from the backing paper.
This link has technical details.
https://virtualnewzealandstamps.blogspot.com/2015/04/2009-2010-scenic-definitives.html#more

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sheepshanks
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29 Mar 2021
03:33:15pm
re: New Zealand Query

Looking at a blown up image, the word Tolaga on the perfed stamp appears different to that on the other two, or is that a mark on the mount?
Can you read the cancellation date on the imperf stamps, the printed date looks to be the same, 2009.
Maybe someone is faking NZ stamps as well as UK ones!

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
03:34:42pm
re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:- Thanks for that link.

Unfortunately no further forward. No mention of booklets, coils, sheetlets that contain 2 x 30cent stamps together.


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sheepshanks
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29 Mar 2021
03:39:34pm
re: New Zealand Query

That link does say the SA are tagged with red phosphor.
2009 Technical information.
Date of issue:
1 July 2009.
Stamps:
One self-adhesive and six gummed stamps.
Denominations:
30c, $1.80 (gummed and self-adhesive), $2.30, $2.80, $3.30, $4.00.
Designed by:
Stamps Business, New Zealand Post, Wellington.
Printer and process:
Southern Colour Print, New Zealand by offset lithography.
Number of colours:
Four process colours (self-adhesive tagged with red phosphor).
Stamp size:
30mm x 25mm.
Paper type:
Gummed: Tullis Russell 104gsm red phosphor gummed stamp paper; self-adhesive: Avery Dennison B100 PS1 Gloss Back Adhesive 210gsm.
Stamps per sheet:
30c - 100 stamps, $1.80, $2.30, $2.80, $3.30, $4.00 - 50 stamps.
Perforation gauge:
Gummed: 13.33; self-adhesive: die cut.

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
03:52:14pm
re: New Zealand Query

I must have missed what to click on to get the specification.

The 30cent was only on gummed paper not self adhesive.

I looked at them under UV light, both long and short wave. When compared side by side there was no noticable difference between them that could be spotted by the naked eye.

There are no ghost perforation marks between the two under magnification that I can see.

They may be genuine imperforated or part of a sheet of printers waste.

Its just a shame they are not on cover.

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sheepshanks
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29 Mar 2021
04:06:48pm
re: New Zealand Query

Ian, just realised that I was reading that wrong (thinking both 30 cents and 1,80 were SA), Maybe contact the owners of that website with your query.
Did you check on that Tolega anomaly?
My 2014 Scott does not have any variations or SS shown for that value.
The specs were further down the page, easily missed.

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sheepshanks
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29 Mar 2021
04:16:21pm
re: New Zealand Query

Apparently there was a 2018 reprint where the imprint is different but have not found an image.
Image Not Found
Issued as counter roll and booklet
Edit.
Looking at the perfed stamp again, the letter "d" of Zealand looks a different typeface?

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
06:40:54pm
re: New Zealand Query

I did find the specs down near the bottom of the page. I was looking for pictures so the brain ignored all the writing after 2009.

The tolega anomaly appears to be caused by a miniscule shift of the green colour.

I'll have a look at the d later. (I can't do it now as the missus is asleep and the stamp is in the next room)

I won't contact that site as they are in the process of trying to offload it.

I'll try and find photos of the coil and booklet.

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
07:33:56pm
re: New Zealand Query

Where did you find mention of a reprint in 2018 and they were available in coils and Booklets as 30c in 2018 was never a postal rate.
50 cents appears to be the smallest value stamp in booklets from 2009.

I've hunted the internet and can find no mention that the 30c is imperf or as a coil or in a booklet.
The PE45a mentioned in your last post is a major perf shift error.


I'll email a New Zealand stamp dealer tommorrow for information.

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sheepshanks
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29 Mar 2021
08:29:33pm
re: New Zealand Query

I websearched Talaga 30c stamp and this was one of the sites returned. New issue notes for 2018. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree?
https://323yfe3mr9mijtj8a3j9xqh6-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ACS-8431-CP-Newsletter-December-2018_WEB.pdf

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
08:54:30pm
re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

The imperf stamps are dated 2009 so they cannot be the 2018 variant as they would be dated 2018.

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sheepshanks
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29 Mar 2021
09:12:46pm
re: New Zealand Query

This is very true, not sure my brain is working properly today.
Perhaps someone photocopied them and cut them out, but that would not account for the phosphor.
Will be interesting to know the real reason, hopefully for you they will prove to be an imperf pair.

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Brechinite

30 Mar 2021
11:50:28am
re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

I've just emailed a New Zealand dealer. Its the middle of the night there but hopefully they will respond tommorrow.

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sheepshanks
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01 Apr 2021
07:11:25pm
re: New Zealand Query

Ian I think I may have found an answer for you.
From this website,
https://stampsnz.com/2009_best_new_zealand_post_reward_points.html

"Each year New Zealand Post produces a limited number of miniature sheets, imperforate sheets of stamps and such as a reward for direct customers. These items can only be purchased from bonus Points accumulated from purchases in the year. None of the items here are available for general sale.

As there are so few produced, the items are quite hard to come by."

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Brechinite

01 Apr 2021
08:33:39pm
re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

Much appreciated and nice try.

However there is no miniature sheet with two 30c stamps side by side imperforated, so far.

I emailed Campbell Patterson a couple of days back but they are yet to respond.

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sheepshanks
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01 Apr 2021
09:03:03pm
re: New Zealand Query

Ian, I read it that they produce imperforate sheets other than those shown on the above website. Maybe as one-offs for their direct customers, could be any design was how I took it.

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
05:21:45am
re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

The site that you linked is not New Zealand Posts' site.

It appears to be a Commercial Site that lists New Zealand stamps for sale.

The "Best of" series for rewarding loyal customers of New Zealand are shown on the site, if you notice that the prices they show for them allows for their scarcity.

If anyone finds them in a collection or mixed box at auction buy them as they are at a premium.

The imperf sheets are few and far between and are not an annual event.

Here is an interesting site:-
https://shop.completestamp.com/collectables/new-zealand-stamps-postal-history?category=Errors - 2000 - on Issues&

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sheepshanks
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02 Apr 2021
12:43:18pm
re: New Zealand Query

Ian, sorry to belabour a point, this is from NZ post website regarding their rewards points program.
" 2000 points One set of imperforated stamp sheets of each denomination, selected from one of our stamp issues from the current calendar year stamp programme."

It's possible a dealer buying bulk new issues would accumulate those points, they are allocated at one point for every dollar spent. Maybe they chose to use them as postage at some time or whoever bought the sheet from them used them.
Presume you have not had an answer back from the dealer?

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
07:52:56pm
re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks

You must have done better than me as I searched their site for the rewards programme but nothing came up and I tried various keywords all to no avail. If you could post the link I would be grateful.
Still no response from Campbell Paterson.

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sheepshanks
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02 Apr 2021
07:58:21pm
re: New Zealand Query

Ian, this is the page.
https://collectables.nzpost.co.nz/about-kiwi-collector-rewards/
It was under account information, which only appears after you click on help and information.

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
08:19:47pm
re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

Thanks. To get an imperf sheet you need to buy $2000 worth of items in a year. That counts me out.

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sheepshanks
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02 Apr 2021
08:34:41pm
re: New Zealand Query

"That counts me out"


Well maybe she who must be obeyed could put it down as a business expense.
I guess a serious new issue collector or stamp dealer would spend far more than that, but not the like of us part timers, although if it is you that has just one the Euro jackpot of £122 million, I guess you could now afford any stamps you want.

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
08:57:45pm
re: New Zealand Query

I haven't checked my lottery ticket yet!

I always let "she who thinks she must be obeyed" check it first!

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Brechinite

03 Apr 2021
11:12:17am
re: New Zealand Query

She checked the lottery ticket and we WON!!!!!







Yes £121,999,997.20






less than £122,000,000


YUP the enormous sum of £2.80


CryingCryingCrying


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sheepshanks
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03 Apr 2021
11:29:15am
re: New Zealand Query

Nearly covered the ticket cost then. All I won last night was a free play.

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Brechinite

07 May 2021
03:34:48pm
re: New Zealand Query

Just to let people know.

I have been unable to find any further information as to where these originate or value. I have tried a few "reputable" authorities but have never had a response so far.

Image Not Found

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Brechinite

11 May 2021
11:20:57am
re: New Zealand Query

I've heard back from New Zealand Post.

They confirm that the stamps came from an imperf sheet of stamps which was part of their rewards scheme and issued during 2010.

They would not tell me how many of these sheets were produced or distributed.

To earn the complete set of imperf sheets for the 2009 Scenic Definitives, of which the 30c is one of the set of 6 stamps, you have to purchase NZ$2000 (US$1453.91 at todays rate) worth of items from New Zealand Post.

I presume that most collectors would keep the imperf sheets for themselves thus I think that there would be few Used examples.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

30 May 2021
01:25:49am
re: New Zealand Query

" ... None of the items here are available for general sale. ..."

Would that not mean they are labels and not legitimately, "postage stamps ?"

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Brechinite

30 May 2021
05:07:01am
re: New Zealand Query

It all depends on your own definition postage use.

The pair I own have been used and been through the postal system.

It would have been great if the stamps were on a cover.

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Author/Postings
Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
11:31:14am

Image Not Found

The stamps on the left are imperforate.

Some countries in the past have deliberately issued imperforated sheetlets.

Has New Zealand done the same?

My Stanley Gibbons New Zealand catalogue only goes up to 2005.

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"Gonnae no dae that!..........Just gonnae no!"
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sheepshanks

29 Mar 2021
02:49:13pm

re: New Zealand Query

Only suggestion I can come up with is they were from a self adhesive sheet and cut rather than peeled from the backing paper.
This link has technical details.
https://virtualnewzealandstamps.blogspot.com/2015/04/2009-2010-scenic-definitives.html#more

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sheepshanks

29 Mar 2021
03:33:15pm

re: New Zealand Query

Looking at a blown up image, the word Tolaga on the perfed stamp appears different to that on the other two, or is that a mark on the mount?
Can you read the cancellation date on the imperf stamps, the printed date looks to be the same, 2009.
Maybe someone is faking NZ stamps as well as UK ones!

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
03:34:42pm

re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:- Thanks for that link.

Unfortunately no further forward. No mention of booklets, coils, sheetlets that contain 2 x 30cent stamps together.


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sheepshanks

29 Mar 2021
03:39:34pm

re: New Zealand Query

That link does say the SA are tagged with red phosphor.
2009 Technical information.
Date of issue:
1 July 2009.
Stamps:
One self-adhesive and six gummed stamps.
Denominations:
30c, $1.80 (gummed and self-adhesive), $2.30, $2.80, $3.30, $4.00.
Designed by:
Stamps Business, New Zealand Post, Wellington.
Printer and process:
Southern Colour Print, New Zealand by offset lithography.
Number of colours:
Four process colours (self-adhesive tagged with red phosphor).
Stamp size:
30mm x 25mm.
Paper type:
Gummed: Tullis Russell 104gsm red phosphor gummed stamp paper; self-adhesive: Avery Dennison B100 PS1 Gloss Back Adhesive 210gsm.
Stamps per sheet:
30c - 100 stamps, $1.80, $2.30, $2.80, $3.30, $4.00 - 50 stamps.
Perforation gauge:
Gummed: 13.33; self-adhesive: die cut.

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
03:52:14pm

re: New Zealand Query

I must have missed what to click on to get the specification.

The 30cent was only on gummed paper not self adhesive.

I looked at them under UV light, both long and short wave. When compared side by side there was no noticable difference between them that could be spotted by the naked eye.

There are no ghost perforation marks between the two under magnification that I can see.

They may be genuine imperforated or part of a sheet of printers waste.

Its just a shame they are not on cover.

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sheepshanks

29 Mar 2021
04:06:48pm

re: New Zealand Query

Ian, just realised that I was reading that wrong (thinking both 30 cents and 1,80 were SA), Maybe contact the owners of that website with your query.
Did you check on that Tolega anomaly?
My 2014 Scott does not have any variations or SS shown for that value.
The specs were further down the page, easily missed.

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sheepshanks

29 Mar 2021
04:16:21pm

re: New Zealand Query

Apparently there was a 2018 reprint where the imprint is different but have not found an image.
Image Not Found
Issued as counter roll and booklet
Edit.
Looking at the perfed stamp again, the letter "d" of Zealand looks a different typeface?

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
06:40:54pm

re: New Zealand Query

I did find the specs down near the bottom of the page. I was looking for pictures so the brain ignored all the writing after 2009.

The tolega anomaly appears to be caused by a miniscule shift of the green colour.

I'll have a look at the d later. (I can't do it now as the missus is asleep and the stamp is in the next room)

I won't contact that site as they are in the process of trying to offload it.

I'll try and find photos of the coil and booklet.

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
07:33:56pm

re: New Zealand Query

Where did you find mention of a reprint in 2018 and they were available in coils and Booklets as 30c in 2018 was never a postal rate.
50 cents appears to be the smallest value stamp in booklets from 2009.

I've hunted the internet and can find no mention that the 30c is imperf or as a coil or in a booklet.
The PE45a mentioned in your last post is a major perf shift error.


I'll email a New Zealand stamp dealer tommorrow for information.

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sheepshanks

29 Mar 2021
08:29:33pm

re: New Zealand Query

I websearched Talaga 30c stamp and this was one of the sites returned. New issue notes for 2018. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree?
https://323yfe3mr9mijtj8a3j9xqh6-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ACS-8431-CP-Newsletter-December-2018_WEB.pdf

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Brechinite

29 Mar 2021
08:54:30pm

re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

The imperf stamps are dated 2009 so they cannot be the 2018 variant as they would be dated 2018.

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sheepshanks

29 Mar 2021
09:12:46pm

re: New Zealand Query

This is very true, not sure my brain is working properly today.
Perhaps someone photocopied them and cut them out, but that would not account for the phosphor.
Will be interesting to know the real reason, hopefully for you they will prove to be an imperf pair.

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Brechinite

30 Mar 2021
11:50:28am

re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

I've just emailed a New Zealand dealer. Its the middle of the night there but hopefully they will respond tommorrow.

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sheepshanks

01 Apr 2021
07:11:25pm

re: New Zealand Query

Ian I think I may have found an answer for you.
From this website,
https://stampsnz.com/2009_best_new_zealand_post_reward_points.html

"Each year New Zealand Post produces a limited number of miniature sheets, imperforate sheets of stamps and such as a reward for direct customers. These items can only be purchased from bonus Points accumulated from purchases in the year. None of the items here are available for general sale.

As there are so few produced, the items are quite hard to come by."

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Brechinite

01 Apr 2021
08:33:39pm

re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

Much appreciated and nice try.

However there is no miniature sheet with two 30c stamps side by side imperforated, so far.

I emailed Campbell Patterson a couple of days back but they are yet to respond.

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sheepshanks

01 Apr 2021
09:03:03pm

re: New Zealand Query

Ian, I read it that they produce imperforate sheets other than those shown on the above website. Maybe as one-offs for their direct customers, could be any design was how I took it.

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
05:21:45am

re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

The site that you linked is not New Zealand Posts' site.

It appears to be a Commercial Site that lists New Zealand stamps for sale.

The "Best of" series for rewarding loyal customers of New Zealand are shown on the site, if you notice that the prices they show for them allows for their scarcity.

If anyone finds them in a collection or mixed box at auction buy them as they are at a premium.

The imperf sheets are few and far between and are not an annual event.

Here is an interesting site:-
https://shop.completestamp.com/collectables/new-zealand-stamps-postal-history?category=Errors - 2000 - on Issues&

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sheepshanks

02 Apr 2021
12:43:18pm

re: New Zealand Query

Ian, sorry to belabour a point, this is from NZ post website regarding their rewards points program.
" 2000 points One set of imperforated stamp sheets of each denomination, selected from one of our stamp issues from the current calendar year stamp programme."

It's possible a dealer buying bulk new issues would accumulate those points, they are allocated at one point for every dollar spent. Maybe they chose to use them as postage at some time or whoever bought the sheet from them used them.
Presume you have not had an answer back from the dealer?

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
07:52:56pm

re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks

You must have done better than me as I searched their site for the rewards programme but nothing came up and I tried various keywords all to no avail. If you could post the link I would be grateful.
Still no response from Campbell Paterson.

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sheepshanks

02 Apr 2021
07:58:21pm

re: New Zealand Query

Ian, this is the page.
https://collectables.nzpost.co.nz/about-kiwi-collector-rewards/
It was under account information, which only appears after you click on help and information.

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
08:19:47pm

re: New Zealand Query

Sheepshanks:-

Thanks. To get an imperf sheet you need to buy $2000 worth of items in a year. That counts me out.

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sheepshanks

02 Apr 2021
08:34:41pm

re: New Zealand Query

"That counts me out"


Well maybe she who must be obeyed could put it down as a business expense.
I guess a serious new issue collector or stamp dealer would spend far more than that, but not the like of us part timers, although if it is you that has just one the Euro jackpot of £122 million, I guess you could now afford any stamps you want.

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Brechinite

02 Apr 2021
08:57:45pm

re: New Zealand Query

I haven't checked my lottery ticket yet!

I always let "she who thinks she must be obeyed" check it first!

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Brechinite

03 Apr 2021
11:12:17am

re: New Zealand Query

She checked the lottery ticket and we WON!!!!!







Yes £121,999,997.20






less than £122,000,000


YUP the enormous sum of £2.80


CryingCryingCrying


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sheepshanks

03 Apr 2021
11:29:15am

re: New Zealand Query

Nearly covered the ticket cost then. All I won last night was a free play.

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Brechinite

07 May 2021
03:34:48pm

re: New Zealand Query

Just to let people know.

I have been unable to find any further information as to where these originate or value. I have tried a few "reputable" authorities but have never had a response so far.

Image Not Found

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Brechinite

11 May 2021
11:20:57am

re: New Zealand Query

I've heard back from New Zealand Post.

They confirm that the stamps came from an imperf sheet of stamps which was part of their rewards scheme and issued during 2010.

They would not tell me how many of these sheets were produced or distributed.

To earn the complete set of imperf sheets for the 2009 Scenic Definitives, of which the 30c is one of the set of 6 stamps, you have to purchase NZ$2000 (US$1453.91 at todays rate) worth of items from New Zealand Post.

I presume that most collectors would keep the imperf sheets for themselves thus I think that there would be few Used examples.

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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
30 May 2021
01:25:49am

re: New Zealand Query

" ... None of the items here are available for general sale. ..."

Would that not mean they are labels and not legitimately, "postage stamps ?"

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Brechinite

30 May 2021
05:07:01am

re: New Zealand Query

It all depends on your own definition postage use.

The pair I own have been used and been through the postal system.

It would have been great if the stamps were on a cover.

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