Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
08:15:18pm
Please stop describing your hinged unused stamps as simply "mint hinged", or "MH".
The marketplace has a general methodology when describing degree of hinging, at a minimum:
Mint Hinge remnant (MHR) (evidence of remaining hinge material) -- could be modified as "Light Hinge remnant, if applicable.
Mint hinged. (MH) Not "light" (see next one), but no remaining hinge.
Mint, lightly hinged (MLH) - a hinge mark over a small area, but no actual disturbance of the gum.
These are so commonly used that Scott describes them in its introduction, and ebay requires these modifiers as part of a listing to allow their use as search criteria.
By listing all your items as "mint hinged", with no gradations, experienced buyers will naturally assume the worst, and pay accordingly. If you are offering pre-1935 hinged stamps and I see no gradations of hinging in your listings, with everything described as MH, I am going to assume that they are all MHR (mint with hinge remnants) and I won't be buying. On the other hand, if I see a listing as "mint, lightly hinged", I will know that you respect the stamp enough to give it a proper description and I am much more inclined to buy. Of course, before there is any long-term buying, I will test a few to see if we are on the same wavelength as far as the description is concerned.
Other buyers, if you agree with me, don't just "Like" this post, add to the thread to show the sellers there is agreement on this issue.
Sellers, save the counter-arguments of "it's too much work". Selling stamps is work (I know, I started in 1975). Yes, you can save the work, but expect buyers to expect the minimum condition and pay accordingly.
Roy
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
MHR - covers a multitude of conditions.
Picking old albums with proper non peelable hinges it is usually safer to slit the hinge at the fold, leaving a neat single thickness hinge remnant that is not detectable from the front.
MHR also covers those over moistened stamps with a huge visible bulge which if of any real value should be soaked and pressed unless there is a good stamp doctor handy who can often convert those to MLH if the stamp is valuable enough (used to cost $5 back in the day).
All bulged stamps I come across end up in bulk donation lots or are soaked and pressed and sold as no gums.Life is too short and I can't do the show circuit anymore.
Just my opinion .. the only stamp I ever had returned due to condition in 35 years of dealing was an expensive early Hong Kong that I described as MNH., the customer was apologetic but stated he thought he saw the shadow of a hinge while viewing it with a Sign O Scope. I couldn't find it with my Sign O Scope using any of the normal filters, nor could I find it by playing with it's image on the computer and its array of viewing options. I did relist it as MLH just to be on the safe side.
Login to Like
this post
Last month I bid on a auction lot of New Zealand 1935 definitives, described as MHR, mint with hinge remnants. I received them finally on Friday. Heavily hinged is my opinion. Half the stamps were covered in the hinge, but the folded over bit had been cut off, some not very well. Hinge descriptors seem to be in the eye of the beholder!
Login to Like
this post
09:45:18am
"Hinge descriptors seem to be in the eye of the beholder!"
That's right, and even if minimum standards of description are applied, that's why I said:
"Of course, before there is any long-term buying, I will test a few to see if we are on the same wavelength as far as the description is concerned."
"Half the stamps were covered in the hinge, but the folded over bit had been cut off, some not very well."
If that were in my listings, they would have been described as MHHR = "Mint, Heavy Hinge Remnant". And if the value was high enough to justify the extra time, both sides would have been shown.
Roy
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
11:17:09am
Am I the only person out there who, as long as I am not expecting a stamp to be mint NH, doesn't give the slightest damn how much of a hing remnant remains! All hinge remnants can be removed if you wish to do so. I tend to leave them so as not to cause damage by removing them. I also don't mind pencil markings on the back of the stamps since I think it adds to the character of the stamp. I honestly think we should be less picky, especially with hard to find material. Again, as I have said many times, this is just my opinion. I also collect many types of early glass and china and sometimes, because of the rarity of some items, I am willing to put up with imperfections. I ordered a beautiful piece of early Roman Glass on line a while ago. It had some repairs and you have to expect that with pieces that have been around that long. I am missing one US airmail, the higher denomination Zeppelin, and hinge remnants would be fine as long as it was in the right price range! We don't want to turn a "hard to find" item into an "impossible to find" item! Again, "different strokes ...".
6 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Request noted.
I'll set my staff to it:-
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
12:00:23pm
"Am I the only person out there who, as long as I am not expecting a stamp to be mint NH, doesn't give the slightest damn how much of a hing remnant remains!"
After 45 years of dealing, my answer is: "Probably".
"I am missing one US airmail, the higher denomination Zeppelin, and hinge remnants would be fine as long as it was in the right price range!"
"right price range"
And you just proved my point. We are not talking about whether or not the stamp can find a happy home, but that the condition matters to the price a collector is willing to pay. An inadequately described stamp leads to optimism on the part of the buyer at the time of purchase, and disappointment at the time of delivery --- and mistrust of future offerings from that seller.
All I am trying to do is help sellers build a happy and continuing clientele -- at least those sellers who will listen.
Roy
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
12:24:21pm
Of course condition matters, DUH!! If it has a hinge remnant that means it is MH, not MNH. I would be willing to pay a MH type price whether or not there is a remnant, but obviously mot a MNH price. To me, remnants of hinges make no difference, as long as there is no damage to the stamp itself. And obviously I do not consider hinge remnants to be damage. If that were the case we had better redefine the condition "damage"!
Login to Like
this post
Yes I can appreciate if one is buying an expensive stamp that has been hinged one has to be careful of the condition and that is why a scan of the gum side may be useful.
However for the past couple of decades the stamp hinges being sold and used have been pretty rotten. They all leave remnants and/or marks to a lesser or greater degree (mostly greater) when peeled or should I say ripped off the stamp.
To me the definition of MH = Mint hinged = been hinged, has remnants, has left the hinge gum behind, disturbed the original gum, and possibly a combination of all 4, therefore NOT PRISTINE! (Hope for the Best, Plan for the Worse)
Of course a buyer can enquire condition from the seller or ignore the sellers offering completely. That is the buyers privilage.
To suggest that a seller may get a better price for a MH or MLH or MLHR or MHR is just incorrect here on stamporama as there are insufficient members to bid a listed item up.
The percentage of lots getting 2 or more bids here is extremely low. I for one list the majority of my items as Buy It Now. I name my price and that is it. If you want to ask questions before you buy then you are free to ask and I shall respond.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I'm tired of buying stamps that say "Mint Never Hinged", then get the stamp, and the back is a world of problems with disturbed gum, writing, finger prints, hinge remnants, thins, and hinge marks.
Login to Like
this post
For myself, I'm very happy that when a mint stamp has been hinged in any way I can buy it a considerable discount from the MNH price.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I’m in 100% agreement with Roy. I never buy a stamp unless,
a) it is illustrated with large, clear images of both the front and back, or
b ) it is clearly and completely described in terms of centring, gum condition, freshness and hinging.
I fight the “Battle of the Hinge Bulge by refusing to buy stamps with hinge bulges. I still regret buying an expensive, unused (NG) Italian stamp, which seems more like a filler to me than a mint stamp.
We often hear stamps described as “miniature works of art”. If they are, then why do so many collectors and dealers treat them like dirt, and fail to describe them accurately?
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
I agree with what everyone has said to one point or another.
Here is the problem and I have no idea how to fix it. The internet dominates todays market mediums such as eBay or auction houses and even the few brick and mortar shops left. So face to face social interaction is very limited or doesn't take place anymore which reflects in the use of descriptive acronyms such as: MNH, MH, MNG. MVLH etc. etc. etc. Many buyers and sellers for that matter do not truly understand philatelic terminology or how to use it and the the market reflects this.
This use of philatelic terms has most certainly caused the loss of true definitions in my eyes. Due in large part to the collectors who seek out MNH with certificates and nothing else. So the market of sellers will more often than not pander to those individuals and rightfully so that is what is in demand. I'd do the same if I had the inventory and space to do so because that is where the money is at.
However I can remember a time that when I went to my favorite brick and mortar shop wasn't just selling MNH. They sold everything that had to do with philately. The owner and his employees would tell me after I became educated enough. Use the correct terminology for the acronym or they wouldn't sell to me. Talk about an education and it was free.It was even more helpful that I had the best mentor in the world who shared the same interest in philately and that person was my grandmother. Believe me if I used the incorrect term I heard about it. 
Login to Like
this post
lovely you had a grandma, Sarge, who schooled you. What an incredible gift.
Login to Like
this post
"...lovely you had a grandma, Sarge, who schooled you"
I had a grandma who schooled me too. Much nicer that yours used stamps and not a wooden spoon...
But seriously Jeremy/Sarge, I've enjoyed reading your posts since your return to action!
Dave.
Login to Like
this post
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
19 Sep 2021
08:15:18pm
This is a request, not a Stamporama policy. Follow it if you like, but I believe your results will improve if you do (certainly from me).
Please stop describing your hinged unused stamps as simply "mint hinged", or "MH".
The marketplace has a general methodology when describing degree of hinging, at a minimum:
Mint Hinge remnant (MHR) (evidence of remaining hinge material) -- could be modified as "Light Hinge remnant, if applicable.
Mint hinged. (MH) Not "light" (see next one), but no remaining hinge.
Mint, lightly hinged (MLH) - a hinge mark over a small area, but no actual disturbance of the gum.
These are so commonly used that Scott describes them in its introduction, and ebay requires these modifiers as part of a listing to allow their use as search criteria.
By listing all your items as "mint hinged", with no gradations, experienced buyers will naturally assume the worst, and pay accordingly. If you are offering pre-1935 hinged stamps and I see no gradations of hinging in your listings, with everything described as MH, I am going to assume that they are all MHR (mint with hinge remnants) and I won't be buying. On the other hand, if I see a listing as "mint, lightly hinged", I will know that you respect the stamp enough to give it a proper description and I am much more inclined to buy. Of course, before there is any long-term buying, I will test a few to see if we are on the same wavelength as far as the description is concerned.
Other buyers, if you agree with me, don't just "Like" this post, add to the thread to show the sellers there is agreement on this issue.
Sellers, save the counter-arguments of "it's too much work". Selling stamps is work (I know, I started in 1975). Yes, you can save the work, but expect buyers to expect the minimum condition and pay accordingly.
Roy
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
09:25:21pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: A request to auction sellers
MHR - covers a multitude of conditions.
Picking old albums with proper non peelable hinges it is usually safer to slit the hinge at the fold, leaving a neat single thickness hinge remnant that is not detectable from the front.
MHR also covers those over moistened stamps with a huge visible bulge which if of any real value should be soaked and pressed unless there is a good stamp doctor handy who can often convert those to MLH if the stamp is valuable enough (used to cost $5 back in the day).
All bulged stamps I come across end up in bulk donation lots or are soaked and pressed and sold as no gums.Life is too short and I can't do the show circuit anymore.
Just my opinion .. the only stamp I ever had returned due to condition in 35 years of dealing was an expensive early Hong Kong that I described as MNH., the customer was apologetic but stated he thought he saw the shadow of a hinge while viewing it with a Sign O Scope. I couldn't find it with my Sign O Scope using any of the normal filters, nor could I find it by playing with it's image on the computer and its array of viewing options. I did relist it as MLH just to be on the safe side.
Login to Like
this post
re: A request to auction sellers
Last month I bid on a auction lot of New Zealand 1935 definitives, described as MHR, mint with hinge remnants. I received them finally on Friday. Heavily hinged is my opinion. Half the stamps were covered in the hinge, but the folded over bit had been cut off, some not very well. Hinge descriptors seem to be in the eye of the beholder!
Login to Like
this post
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
20 Sep 2021
09:45:18am
re: A request to auction sellers
"Hinge descriptors seem to be in the eye of the beholder!"
That's right, and even if minimum standards of description are applied, that's why I said:
"Of course, before there is any long-term buying, I will test a few to see if we are on the same wavelength as far as the description is concerned."
"Half the stamps were covered in the hinge, but the folded over bit had been cut off, some not very well."
If that were in my listings, they would have been described as MHHR = "Mint, Heavy Hinge Remnant". And if the value was high enough to justify the extra time, both sides would have been shown.
Roy
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
20 Sep 2021
11:17:09am
re: A request to auction sellers
Am I the only person out there who, as long as I am not expecting a stamp to be mint NH, doesn't give the slightest damn how much of a hing remnant remains! All hinge remnants can be removed if you wish to do so. I tend to leave them so as not to cause damage by removing them. I also don't mind pencil markings on the back of the stamps since I think it adds to the character of the stamp. I honestly think we should be less picky, especially with hard to find material. Again, as I have said many times, this is just my opinion. I also collect many types of early glass and china and sometimes, because of the rarity of some items, I am willing to put up with imperfections. I ordered a beautiful piece of early Roman Glass on line a while ago. It had some repairs and you have to expect that with pieces that have been around that long. I am missing one US airmail, the higher denomination Zeppelin, and hinge remnants would be fine as long as it was in the right price range! We don't want to turn a "hard to find" item into an "impossible to find" item! Again, "different strokes ...".
6 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
11:55:18am
Auctions - Approvals
re: A request to auction sellers
Request noted.
I'll set my staff to it:-
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
20 Sep 2021
12:00:23pm
re: A request to auction sellers
"Am I the only person out there who, as long as I am not expecting a stamp to be mint NH, doesn't give the slightest damn how much of a hing remnant remains!"
After 45 years of dealing, my answer is: "Probably".
"I am missing one US airmail, the higher denomination Zeppelin, and hinge remnants would be fine as long as it was in the right price range!"
"right price range"
And you just proved my point. We are not talking about whether or not the stamp can find a happy home, but that the condition matters to the price a collector is willing to pay. An inadequately described stamp leads to optimism on the part of the buyer at the time of purchase, and disappointment at the time of delivery --- and mistrust of future offerings from that seller.
All I am trying to do is help sellers build a happy and continuing clientele -- at least those sellers who will listen.
Roy
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
20 Sep 2021
12:24:21pm
re: A request to auction sellers
Of course condition matters, DUH!! If it has a hinge remnant that means it is MH, not MNH. I would be willing to pay a MH type price whether or not there is a remnant, but obviously mot a MNH price. To me, remnants of hinges make no difference, as long as there is no damage to the stamp itself. And obviously I do not consider hinge remnants to be damage. If that were the case we had better redefine the condition "damage"!
Login to Like
this post
03:27:30pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: A request to auction sellers
Yes I can appreciate if one is buying an expensive stamp that has been hinged one has to be careful of the condition and that is why a scan of the gum side may be useful.
However for the past couple of decades the stamp hinges being sold and used have been pretty rotten. They all leave remnants and/or marks to a lesser or greater degree (mostly greater) when peeled or should I say ripped off the stamp.
To me the definition of MH = Mint hinged = been hinged, has remnants, has left the hinge gum behind, disturbed the original gum, and possibly a combination of all 4, therefore NOT PRISTINE! (Hope for the Best, Plan for the Worse)
Of course a buyer can enquire condition from the seller or ignore the sellers offering completely. That is the buyers privilage.
To suggest that a seller may get a better price for a MH or MLH or MLHR or MHR is just incorrect here on stamporama as there are insufficient members to bid a listed item up.
The percentage of lots getting 2 or more bids here is extremely low. I for one list the majority of my items as Buy It Now. I name my price and that is it. If you want to ask questions before you buy then you are free to ask and I shall respond.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
09:19:21pm
re: A request to auction sellers
I'm tired of buying stamps that say "Mint Never Hinged", then get the stamp, and the back is a world of problems with disturbed gum, writing, finger prints, hinge remnants, thins, and hinge marks.
Login to Like
this post
re: A request to auction sellers
For myself, I'm very happy that when a mint stamp has been hinged in any way I can buy it a considerable discount from the MNH price.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: A request to auction sellers
I’m in 100% agreement with Roy. I never buy a stamp unless,
a) it is illustrated with large, clear images of both the front and back, or
b ) it is clearly and completely described in terms of centring, gum condition, freshness and hinging.
I fight the “Battle of the Hinge Bulge by refusing to buy stamps with hinge bulges. I still regret buying an expensive, unused (NG) Italian stamp, which seems more like a filler to me than a mint stamp.
We often hear stamps described as “miniature works of art”. If they are, then why do so many collectors and dealers treat them like dirt, and fail to describe them accurately?
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
04:40:29pm
re: A request to auction sellers
I agree with what everyone has said to one point or another.
Here is the problem and I have no idea how to fix it. The internet dominates todays market mediums such as eBay or auction houses and even the few brick and mortar shops left. So face to face social interaction is very limited or doesn't take place anymore which reflects in the use of descriptive acronyms such as: MNH, MH, MNG. MVLH etc. etc. etc. Many buyers and sellers for that matter do not truly understand philatelic terminology or how to use it and the the market reflects this.
This use of philatelic terms has most certainly caused the loss of true definitions in my eyes. Due in large part to the collectors who seek out MNH with certificates and nothing else. So the market of sellers will more often than not pander to those individuals and rightfully so that is what is in demand. I'd do the same if I had the inventory and space to do so because that is where the money is at.
However I can remember a time that when I went to my favorite brick and mortar shop wasn't just selling MNH. They sold everything that had to do with philately. The owner and his employees would tell me after I became educated enough. Use the correct terminology for the acronym or they wouldn't sell to me. Talk about an education and it was free.It was even more helpful that I had the best mentor in the world who shared the same interest in philately and that person was my grandmother. Believe me if I used the incorrect term I heard about it.
Login to Like
this post
re: A request to auction sellers
lovely you had a grandma, Sarge, who schooled you. What an incredible gift.
Login to Like
this post
02:55:48pm
re: A request to auction sellers
"...lovely you had a grandma, Sarge, who schooled you"
I had a grandma who schooled me too. Much nicer that yours used stamps and not a wooden spoon...
But seriously Jeremy/Sarge, I've enjoyed reading your posts since your return to action!
Dave.
Login to Like
this post