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What we collect!
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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Auction Disc. : a complaint I've made before!

 

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Oct 2021
03:42:37pm
I know I'll get blasted for this because it's mostly my fault, but here goes anyway. I was looking through Vol II of my Minkus Russia album that I thought was complete. I came across two stamps I didn't have that were marked off my want list. I know it wasn't a mistake because I always mark the area where the stamp is to go. I remember buying them on SOR but not when and not who from. They were cheap and I'm sure that the person I bought them from decided they were too cheap to send and cancelled the order without informing me. I know this all comes down to me not keeping up-to-date with what's coming and I accept the blame. But could the sellers please inform the buyers before they cancel the order? I'm sure a lot of us would elect to receive the items even if they were not worth the postage. I just went on E-Bay and bought the items at a much higher price than I would have paid the original seller. Again, no need to blast me, I realize most of this is on me!!!
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jkc1999

23 Oct 2021
04:31:48pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

According to the rules for approvals you have no one to blame but yourself:

B4. Buyers who have not received an invoice within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent.

Had you requested an invoice, you would have received your stamps. . .

Jackie

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Oct 2021
05:36:26pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

I don't deny it's my fault, I just wanted to vent!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

23 Oct 2021
07:29:48pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

Like Harvey I shall repeat myself.

I invoice everybody with outstanding items at or towards the end of the month, whether it is 1 item or 101 items.

The buyer can either pay up or not. It also reminds buyers that I am still alive!!

It would be simpler if every seller used my approach as very few buyers adhere to rule B4 and sellers are left wondering whether a buyer is finished or not. Sellers are not mind readers.

Please do not say that the seller should contact the buyer. If the buyer can't be bothered to contact the seller you should not expect the seller to contact the buyer.

Edit Just to let folkies know that even with sending invoices every month I have actually just been paid by a member who started buying on the 4th of May and bought one or two items each month. Now that is taking the proverbial "mickey". Aye buyers can block sellers but sellers can't block buyers.

End of rant!!Big Grin

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Oct 2021
08:00:02pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

I like the way you do things Ian. If every seller invoiced once a month regardless of how many stamps we had, then I would happily pay! That's what we all should do. We should never make the seller wait for his/her money, even if it's only $0.50, because that's our problem not yours. That way I would get the stamps I bought with no problem. Anyone who wants to get an extension on the invoice can ask for one!

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jkc1999

23 Oct 2021
09:49:01pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

I appreciate Ian's way of doing business and I buy from him often.I even paid him this month before he invoiced me because I thought I forgot to pay him! That being said, Harvey, this has happened to you more than once. At this point my suggestion to you is to keep track of what you buy and from who and follow the rules and contact them when you are done buying if you haven't received an invoice. Problem solved. This is also why I limit my purchases to a handful of favorite sellers that I have developed a relationship with. I personally can't keep track of more than 3-4 purchases at a time. I also use the tools for buyers to check my open lots and invoices.

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DaveSheridan
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23 Oct 2021
11:27:26pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

This thread has just reminded me to pay you Ian!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

24 Oct 2021
07:25:55am

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

Dave, you would have been "reminded" in a few days time and thanks for the payment.

(I thought you might have been waiting for the Postal system there to improve)

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DaveSheridan
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24 Oct 2021
08:15:01am
re: a complaint I've made before!

Will it ever improve? Sydney to Melbourne - 14 days. Bring back the post-riders I say!

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

24 Oct 2021
09:38:51am
re: a complaint I've made before!

My problem is that I buy indiscriminately from anyone who has a stamp I don't have. So I end up with a stamp or two from a seller who rarely deals in any of my areas. The stamp just sits there and since I usually don't contact the seller it gets put back in the dealers stock. This is my problem and it is my fault when the item is put back. I'm going to follow Jackie's advice and just buy from a handful of dealers who frequently have items in my collecting areas. I guess I am so used to buying on other forums where you are contacted immediately after the sale that I don't do it here. Just out of curiosity, how many of you buyers actually contact the seller and how many of you do as I do and just wait for an invoice?

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joshtanski
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24 Oct 2021
10:39:05am
re: a complaint I've made before!

I have not been buying on SOR that much these days, but I would just wait for the seller to invoice. It baffles me that the seller would cancel the order on you rather than just sending the invoice.

Josh

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

24 Oct 2021
01:33:41pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

Josh, it baffles me as well. But it has happened several times!

Edit: It seems to happen with Poland and Russia stamps. The reason, I guess, is that quite often I'll be going through World books and find a stamp from these countries that I need and that might be the only one from that book. I'm not trying to suck up here, but this doesn't happen with Ian, I always seem to find enough of his stuff that it's not a problem. I really have to stay away from these types of books since quite often I end up buying stamps I already have since the pictures are often not very good!!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

24 Oct 2021
01:53:38pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

We Sellers go into the Sellers section of the Auctions and approvals and the invoicing section on a regular basis.

Why do buyers not go into the Buying section of the Auctions and Approvals section to see what they have bought and who from?

Do they not know it exists?

Sellers have to get to know the ins and outs of the Selling system. Is it too much to ask that buyers get to know the ins and outs of the Buying system?

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

24 Oct 2021
02:31:35pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

Assuming this happened as Harvey described: ordered a stamp and nothing further ever happened, then we have multiple people modifying the terms we spent countless hours creating for your own good.

All the fail safes in the world won't do bupkus if everyone just follows their own instincts, projecting others' preferences or assuming others will actually follow those rules. I guess most of this is just people trying to be extra nice, but that's not the result.

In the absence of following our rules, can you guys at least communicate that you're planning on doing something else so that your counterpart has an opportunity to wave you off or confirm your intention works.

David, who sometimes wonders why he bothers given others prediliction to sabotage the edifice.

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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

24 Oct 2021
07:10:27pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

Unfortunately our members are human beings with their own limitations, foibles, desires, "logic", beliefs and made up understanding of the rules.

Some will not have even read the rules.

If the buying rules were crystal clear what the system was, for example, you buy it, you pay for it within X days, no matter what the amount is whether it be an auction lot or from an approval book then everyone knows what the system is.

However having Rule A7 allows for misunderstandings, assumptions, alterations and airy fairy ideas of what the rules are. Due to this rule sellers have NO OPTION but to agree to a "mutual understanding" otherwise they would lose future sales because buyers do not like to hear the words "NO! That is NOT acceptable" from a seller.

Yes we are a club. We understand that flexibility may be required. But would you go into a shop and ask for your newspaper and a bar of chocolate to be put aside and not go back into that shop for 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks or 5 months!!

Of course you would not!

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

24 Oct 2021
07:22:00pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

A little addition to the comment at the end of Ian's post... I used to have an antique shop in a barn on my property. People would always expect a deduction and I usually gave one. One day, after already offering a fair reduction in price, I was asked if I could "do a little better". I got a bit ticked and told him that the next time he stopped at a McDonald's he should try to haggle on the price of a Big Mac. He got the point and bought the item. We see something, rules or prices, and assume we can ignore them and do what we want. We're all to blame because we all do it!

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

24 Oct 2021
07:50:15pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

Many years ago I had a customer that wanted a discount and I said to him

" At the price that you want to pay I would be better off coming here every week and giving you a £100 in crisp new notes NOT to buy from me".

I had another one say to me that I was a poor salesman because I refused to sell to him. The product he wanted to buy was the wrong product for his situation.

There is business worth doing and business that is not worth doing.

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Kapul
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24 Oct 2021
11:34:06pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

Over the years I have developed some standard replies to people looking for a discount on items.
Q.What would you really like for this $100 chair. A. $130 but I don’t think I would get it so I will settle for $100.
Q. You know in ???? (a town 105km away) I can get this $22 item for $20. A.Be careful driving there the road is a bit slippery at the moment.
Q. You have this priced at $100, I’ll give you $75. A. If I wanted $75 I would have put that on the price tag.
As HARVEY said try getting a discount at your local McDonalds or supermarket or a discount of the registration of your motor car. No one is ever being forced to buy something, if you don’t like the price don’t buy it, and don’t insult the seller with stupid offers.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

25 Oct 2021
06:27:46am

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

" No one is ever being forced to buy something, if you don’t like the price don’t buy it, and don’t insult the seller with stupid offers"



Well said!
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jkc1999

25 Oct 2021
07:00:09am
re: a complaint I've made before!

There are a lot of places in the world where haggling about the price, even in shops or restaurant, is expected and enjoyed by all parties. I lived in Asia for a number of years and to pay full price for anything was done only by the rich American or European tourists Happy. Lowball starting offers were common and it was a game. They weren't going to sell at a price they couldn't live with, and the buyer wouldn't buy if they didn't feel comfortable with the price Happy

Back to Stamporama, sellers should send invoices, and buyers should keep tracker of what they have bought and communicate with sellers if they want an invoice when they are done buying and haven't received one. I have a couple of sellers who send invoices weekly, one monthly, and one every time the auction cycle is completed for his items. I have never had a seller not invoice me, the whole situation sounds odd. Perhaps something happened--I've had a number of ebay sellers disappear this past 18 months.

Communication is key and the rules address this with responsibilities of the buyer and seller both spelled out pretty clearly. If both sides are communicating, this shouldn't happen Happy

Jackie

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

25 Oct 2021
08:25:49am

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

"I've had a number of ebay sellers disappear this past 18 months. "



I quit ebay a couple of months back simply due to their change in payment policy.

They wanted my bank details. There is only one online organisation that has my bank details and that is paypal.

Ebay want to become all things to everyone to increase their profits.

My philosophy is quite simple get your telecom equipment from a telecom company, get your electricity from an electricity company, get your gas from a gas company, get your books from a book store. You wouldn't get your hair cut from a green grocer so why allow ebay to get access to your bank account when they cannot run their own selling platform competantly in my opinion.
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Gudgie

P!ease ask by private message if you wish my home address.

25 Oct 2021
06:27:00pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

One of many complaints Harvey has made before now!!!

Harvey, if you click on Auction at any time, towards the right hand side you will see a section marked Buyers, and another marked Sellers. If you ever buy any items you should regularly check the Buyers button and it will show you all open orders, all unpaid and paid invoices, and it will also advise you which items have been shipped. Most people who buy on SoR regularly use that facility, but people seem to be tiptoeing around it so as not to upset you and have you start another of your rants.

I owned and ran a business for 30 years and everyone asked me for discounts off List Prices. Almost everyone got a discount and most were happy with it. However, if you were rigid and never varied from your rules in the office supplies game, then you would not last very long. Most people on SoR are amenable to an approach for a discount when there is a carrot being dangled. It doesn't hurt to ask, and if you take offence by a refusal, then you must have very thin skin.

I'm very pleased to say that I always pay immediately an invoice is provided, and with 1 exception where I asked Dave at Holocaust Stamps for a delay in invoicing to allow him to provide as many additional stamps as he wished to my order, I have always paid immediately the invoice arrives. Mind you, I read the Buying and the Selling Rules before I started buying. It would help everyone if they did likewise.

Here endeth my rant.

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

25 Oct 2021
07:17:04pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

"One of many complaints Harvey has made before now!!!"
"but people seem to be tiptoeing around it so as not to upset you and have you start another of your rants."

Thanks for that, I guess it's time to keep my mouth shut! I have a right to express an opinion, but if that's not the case, well, so be it... I'll still continue to buy, but I think I've had it with the discussion area unless I have a philatelic question. Opinions are obviously not appreciated by some members!

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Gudgie

P!ease ask by private message if you wish my home address.

25 Oct 2021
08:13:38pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

Harvey,
I must apologise for my earlier comment. You don't complain a great deal. You do contribute many enjoyable and meaningful items on all subjects to Stamporama forums, and my earlier comment was out of order. Please don't change. I'm the goofball whose contributions tend to be complaints about other members. I should not have written such an idiotic and offensive item and I apologise unreservedly. Incidentally, nobody messaged me to say how stupid my comment was but I suspect many members felt I was out of order.
Anyhow, I am so sorry for any offence I caused.
gudgie

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

25 Oct 2021
09:30:18pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

No problem John and no offence taken. I quite often have to open my mouth to change feet and sometimes I do complain too much. I seem to get crankier the older I get!! Have a great week and thanks for the apology, not everyone would do that - it shows character that sometimes I don't have! Thanks again!!

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

25 Oct 2021
10:09:22pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

It's the same at flea markets:

1. How much do you want for it? $1.00. I can get it cheaper at Walmart. Then got to Walmart and buy it.

2. How much? $5.00. Will you take $3? Yeah, all right. I'll give you $2 then. I'll take $7 for it. But you said you'll take $3. That was the agreement before you changed it, $7 now.

3. How much? $10. I can't resell it at that price! I'm not your wholesaler.

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angore
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26 Oct 2021
07:12:32am
re: a complaint I've made before!

Back to the original post...

I keep track of all my purchases in StampManage so when I purchase something I will update the status field for the stamp in the inventory as awaiting delivery. I code it with AWD and seller name with date such as "AWD SC 10-21-21." When it arrives I clear the field. This is better than just marking off a want list since stamps not invoiced (Harvey's situation) or missing in shipment would give a false inventory status. This method has reduced duplicate purchases.

It also helps re-identify SOR approval items since catalog numbers (just book, page, position) do not show in SOR invoices. I do not track if I have been invoiced but have
not had that situation. This would catch it and can deal with it then. I would avoid sellers that do not invoice.

Example...

Image Not Found




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hfbaker
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26 Oct 2021
03:48:53pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

Harvey:

"Opinions are obviously not appreciated by some members!"



Yet your opinions are very much appreciated by other members. I, for one, am a fan of your comments. I believe it is wrong for a seller to cancel a purchase without checking with the buyer first. Some may think they are doing you a favor by not invoicing a small purchase where the shipping and handling is a multiple of the items value. Some buyers may be hoping to find other items from the same buyer so as to lower the delivery cost as a percentage of the purchase, but this is not always possible. It is a nice gesture if the seller is willing to "let you off the hook" in such cases, but it should only be done with the buyer's consent.
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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

26 Oct 2021
05:03:57pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

Thanks Harry, greatly appreciated.

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d1stamper
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26 Oct 2021
07:18:17pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

After sending three or more invoices for the same items and to the same buyer and the buyer does not pay.

Should I notify the buyer that I am cancelling the sale?

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

26 Oct 2021
07:28:17pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

Doug - "yes", I think you've done your bit! Assuming, of course, the messages were received and I think we can tell if the messages have been opened. If the messages were not opened the person might not be well. I'm not sure what to do if the messages were not opened.

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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

26 Oct 2021
08:04:34pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

"BUYING RULES

B3. Buyers must pay for auction lots purchased within 5 business days of receipt of an invoice from the seller, unless other terms have been specifically stated by the seller in the item listing or invoice. Buyers must notify the seller regarding any delay in payment. All time frames assume electronic payment and communication; time may be extended for those paying by check, money order, cash, or stamps (assuming those are accepted per the seller’s terms).

B4. Buyers who have not received an invoice within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent"

.

Lays out in clear english who is responsible for what and when.

'Nough Said

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sheepshanks
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26 Oct 2021
08:42:25pm
re: a complaint I've made before!

"within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent"



Now is it just me that finds this ambiguous, on the basis that the buyer perhaps has not finished purchasing from the seller. So waits for possibly more items to purchase.
None of which, of course, should deter buyers and sellers from communicating their intentions.

Personally I always pay on receipt of an invoice, whatever the amount, and yes it is sometimes more in postage than the items bought, but that is my problem. If I want them I should be prepared to pay.
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Brechinite
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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

27 Oct 2021
05:06:03am

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

" So waits for possibly more items to purchase."



How long should the seller wait for the buyer to buy more:-

3 days, a week, 10 days, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a month, 2 months, 3 months, 5 months???


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27 Oct 2021
08:47:59am
re: a complaint I've made before!

Exactly so Ian, my suggestion would be to remove B4 and for sellers to send an invoice, which if not paid within the time limit specified, will be reported to management who can liaise and if necessary withdraw purchasing rights until paid.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

27 Oct 2021
08:56:20am
re: a complaint I've made before!

B4 exists as a means of completing a loop. Buyers change emails or their server rejects an invoice. B4 adds responsibility to the buyer as well as the seller.

Since everyone freely changes the rules, i'm not worried about "musts" etc.

These rules, on both ends, give us auctioneers platforms from which to build a case if we must decide on faults (although we always prefer to solve a problem rather than punish a participant).

David, one of the three auctioneers trying to look out for you on both ends of the philatelic transaction

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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons

27 Oct 2021
10:02:51am

Auctions - Approvals
re: a complaint I've made before!

" B4 adds responsibility to the buyer as well as the seller."



That's it. Both have responsibilities.

It takes two to:-



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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Oct 2021
03:42:37pm

I know I'll get blasted for this because it's mostly my fault, but here goes anyway. I was looking through Vol II of my Minkus Russia album that I thought was complete. I came across two stamps I didn't have that were marked off my want list. I know it wasn't a mistake because I always mark the area where the stamp is to go. I remember buying them on SOR but not when and not who from. They were cheap and I'm sure that the person I bought them from decided they were too cheap to send and cancelled the order without informing me. I know this all comes down to me not keeping up-to-date with what's coming and I accept the blame. But could the sellers please inform the buyers before they cancel the order? I'm sure a lot of us would elect to receive the items even if they were not worth the postage. I just went on E-Bay and bought the items at a much higher price than I would have paid the original seller. Again, no need to blast me, I realize most of this is on me!!!

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jkc1999

23 Oct 2021
04:31:48pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

According to the rules for approvals you have no one to blame but yourself:

B4. Buyers who have not received an invoice within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent.

Had you requested an invoice, you would have received your stamps. . .

Jackie

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Oct 2021
05:36:26pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

I don't deny it's my fault, I just wanted to vent!

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Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
23 Oct 2021
07:29:48pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

Like Harvey I shall repeat myself.

I invoice everybody with outstanding items at or towards the end of the month, whether it is 1 item or 101 items.

The buyer can either pay up or not. It also reminds buyers that I am still alive!!

It would be simpler if every seller used my approach as very few buyers adhere to rule B4 and sellers are left wondering whether a buyer is finished or not. Sellers are not mind readers.

Please do not say that the seller should contact the buyer. If the buyer can't be bothered to contact the seller you should not expect the seller to contact the buyer.

Edit Just to let folkies know that even with sending invoices every month I have actually just been paid by a member who started buying on the 4th of May and bought one or two items each month. Now that is taking the proverbial "mickey". Aye buyers can block sellers but sellers can't block buyers.

End of rant!!Big Grin

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

23 Oct 2021
08:00:02pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

I like the way you do things Ian. If every seller invoiced once a month regardless of how many stamps we had, then I would happily pay! That's what we all should do. We should never make the seller wait for his/her money, even if it's only $0.50, because that's our problem not yours. That way I would get the stamps I bought with no problem. Anyone who wants to get an extension on the invoice can ask for one!

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jkc1999

23 Oct 2021
09:49:01pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

I appreciate Ian's way of doing business and I buy from him often.I even paid him this month before he invoiced me because I thought I forgot to pay him! That being said, Harvey, this has happened to you more than once. At this point my suggestion to you is to keep track of what you buy and from who and follow the rules and contact them when you are done buying if you haven't received an invoice. Problem solved. This is also why I limit my purchases to a handful of favorite sellers that I have developed a relationship with. I personally can't keep track of more than 3-4 purchases at a time. I also use the tools for buyers to check my open lots and invoices.

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DaveSheridan

23 Oct 2021
11:27:26pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

This thread has just reminded me to pay you Ian!

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
24 Oct 2021
07:25:55am

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

Dave, you would have been "reminded" in a few days time and thanks for the payment.

(I thought you might have been waiting for the Postal system there to improve)

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DaveSheridan

24 Oct 2021
08:15:01am

re: a complaint I've made before!

Will it ever improve? Sydney to Melbourne - 14 days. Bring back the post-riders I say!

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

24 Oct 2021
09:38:51am

re: a complaint I've made before!

My problem is that I buy indiscriminately from anyone who has a stamp I don't have. So I end up with a stamp or two from a seller who rarely deals in any of my areas. The stamp just sits there and since I usually don't contact the seller it gets put back in the dealers stock. This is my problem and it is my fault when the item is put back. I'm going to follow Jackie's advice and just buy from a handful of dealers who frequently have items in my collecting areas. I guess I am so used to buying on other forums where you are contacted immediately after the sale that I don't do it here. Just out of curiosity, how many of you buyers actually contact the seller and how many of you do as I do and just wait for an invoice?

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joshtanski

24 Oct 2021
10:39:05am

re: a complaint I've made before!

I have not been buying on SOR that much these days, but I would just wait for the seller to invoice. It baffles me that the seller would cancel the order on you rather than just sending the invoice.

Josh

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Harvey

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24 Oct 2021
01:33:41pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

Josh, it baffles me as well. But it has happened several times!

Edit: It seems to happen with Poland and Russia stamps. The reason, I guess, is that quite often I'll be going through World books and find a stamp from these countries that I need and that might be the only one from that book. I'm not trying to suck up here, but this doesn't happen with Ian, I always seem to find enough of his stuff that it's not a problem. I really have to stay away from these types of books since quite often I end up buying stamps I already have since the pictures are often not very good!!

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
24 Oct 2021
01:53:38pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

We Sellers go into the Sellers section of the Auctions and approvals and the invoicing section on a regular basis.

Why do buyers not go into the Buying section of the Auctions and Approvals section to see what they have bought and who from?

Do they not know it exists?

Sellers have to get to know the ins and outs of the Selling system. Is it too much to ask that buyers get to know the ins and outs of the Buying system?

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
24 Oct 2021
02:31:35pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

Assuming this happened as Harvey described: ordered a stamp and nothing further ever happened, then we have multiple people modifying the terms we spent countless hours creating for your own good.

All the fail safes in the world won't do bupkus if everyone just follows their own instincts, projecting others' preferences or assuming others will actually follow those rules. I guess most of this is just people trying to be extra nice, but that's not the result.

In the absence of following our rules, can you guys at least communicate that you're planning on doing something else so that your counterpart has an opportunity to wave you off or confirm your intention works.

David, who sometimes wonders why he bothers given others prediliction to sabotage the edifice.

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
24 Oct 2021
07:10:27pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

Unfortunately our members are human beings with their own limitations, foibles, desires, "logic", beliefs and made up understanding of the rules.

Some will not have even read the rules.

If the buying rules were crystal clear what the system was, for example, you buy it, you pay for it within X days, no matter what the amount is whether it be an auction lot or from an approval book then everyone knows what the system is.

However having Rule A7 allows for misunderstandings, assumptions, alterations and airy fairy ideas of what the rules are. Due to this rule sellers have NO OPTION but to agree to a "mutual understanding" otherwise they would lose future sales because buyers do not like to hear the words "NO! That is NOT acceptable" from a seller.

Yes we are a club. We understand that flexibility may be required. But would you go into a shop and ask for your newspaper and a bar of chocolate to be put aside and not go back into that shop for 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks or 5 months!!

Of course you would not!

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

24 Oct 2021
07:22:00pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

A little addition to the comment at the end of Ian's post... I used to have an antique shop in a barn on my property. People would always expect a deduction and I usually gave one. One day, after already offering a fair reduction in price, I was asked if I could "do a little better". I got a bit ticked and told him that the next time he stopped at a McDonald's he should try to haggle on the price of a Big Mac. He got the point and bought the item. We see something, rules or prices, and assume we can ignore them and do what we want. We're all to blame because we all do it!

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
24 Oct 2021
07:50:15pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

Many years ago I had a customer that wanted a discount and I said to him

" At the price that you want to pay I would be better off coming here every week and giving you a £100 in crisp new notes NOT to buy from me".

I had another one say to me that I was a poor salesman because I refused to sell to him. The product he wanted to buy was the wrong product for his situation.

There is business worth doing and business that is not worth doing.

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Kapul

24 Oct 2021
11:34:06pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

Over the years I have developed some standard replies to people looking for a discount on items.
Q.What would you really like for this $100 chair. A. $130 but I don’t think I would get it so I will settle for $100.
Q. You know in ???? (a town 105km away) I can get this $22 item for $20. A.Be careful driving there the road is a bit slippery at the moment.
Q. You have this priced at $100, I’ll give you $75. A. If I wanted $75 I would have put that on the price tag.
As HARVEY said try getting a discount at your local McDonalds or supermarket or a discount of the registration of your motor car. No one is ever being forced to buy something, if you don’t like the price don’t buy it, and don’t insult the seller with stupid offers.

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
25 Oct 2021
06:27:46am

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

" No one is ever being forced to buy something, if you don’t like the price don’t buy it, and don’t insult the seller with stupid offers"



Well said!
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jkc1999

25 Oct 2021
07:00:09am

re: a complaint I've made before!

There are a lot of places in the world where haggling about the price, even in shops or restaurant, is expected and enjoyed by all parties. I lived in Asia for a number of years and to pay full price for anything was done only by the rich American or European tourists Happy. Lowball starting offers were common and it was a game. They weren't going to sell at a price they couldn't live with, and the buyer wouldn't buy if they didn't feel comfortable with the price Happy

Back to Stamporama, sellers should send invoices, and buyers should keep tracker of what they have bought and communicate with sellers if they want an invoice when they are done buying and haven't received one. I have a couple of sellers who send invoices weekly, one monthly, and one every time the auction cycle is completed for his items. I have never had a seller not invoice me, the whole situation sounds odd. Perhaps something happened--I've had a number of ebay sellers disappear this past 18 months.

Communication is key and the rules address this with responsibilities of the buyer and seller both spelled out pretty clearly. If both sides are communicating, this shouldn't happen Happy

Jackie

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
25 Oct 2021
08:25:49am

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

"I've had a number of ebay sellers disappear this past 18 months. "



I quit ebay a couple of months back simply due to their change in payment policy.

They wanted my bank details. There is only one online organisation that has my bank details and that is paypal.

Ebay want to become all things to everyone to increase their profits.

My philosophy is quite simple get your telecom equipment from a telecom company, get your electricity from an electricity company, get your gas from a gas company, get your books from a book store. You wouldn't get your hair cut from a green grocer so why allow ebay to get access to your bank account when they cannot run their own selling platform competantly in my opinion.
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Gudgie

P!ease ask by private message if you wish my home address.

25 Oct 2021
06:27:00pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

One of many complaints Harvey has made before now!!!

Harvey, if you click on Auction at any time, towards the right hand side you will see a section marked Buyers, and another marked Sellers. If you ever buy any items you should regularly check the Buyers button and it will show you all open orders, all unpaid and paid invoices, and it will also advise you which items have been shipped. Most people who buy on SoR regularly use that facility, but people seem to be tiptoeing around it so as not to upset you and have you start another of your rants.

I owned and ran a business for 30 years and everyone asked me for discounts off List Prices. Almost everyone got a discount and most were happy with it. However, if you were rigid and never varied from your rules in the office supplies game, then you would not last very long. Most people on SoR are amenable to an approach for a discount when there is a carrot being dangled. It doesn't hurt to ask, and if you take offence by a refusal, then you must have very thin skin.

I'm very pleased to say that I always pay immediately an invoice is provided, and with 1 exception where I asked Dave at Holocaust Stamps for a delay in invoicing to allow him to provide as many additional stamps as he wished to my order, I have always paid immediately the invoice arrives. Mind you, I read the Buying and the Selling Rules before I started buying. It would help everyone if they did likewise.

Here endeth my rant.

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

25 Oct 2021
07:17:04pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

"One of many complaints Harvey has made before now!!!"
"but people seem to be tiptoeing around it so as not to upset you and have you start another of your rants."

Thanks for that, I guess it's time to keep my mouth shut! I have a right to express an opinion, but if that's not the case, well, so be it... I'll still continue to buy, but I think I've had it with the discussion area unless I have a philatelic question. Opinions are obviously not appreciated by some members!

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Gudgie

P!ease ask by private message if you wish my home address.

25 Oct 2021
08:13:38pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

Harvey,
I must apologise for my earlier comment. You don't complain a great deal. You do contribute many enjoyable and meaningful items on all subjects to Stamporama forums, and my earlier comment was out of order. Please don't change. I'm the goofball whose contributions tend to be complaints about other members. I should not have written such an idiotic and offensive item and I apologise unreservedly. Incidentally, nobody messaged me to say how stupid my comment was but I suspect many members felt I was out of order.
Anyhow, I am so sorry for any offence I caused.
gudgie

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

25 Oct 2021
09:30:18pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

No problem John and no offence taken. I quite often have to open my mouth to change feet and sometimes I do complain too much. I seem to get crankier the older I get!! Have a great week and thanks for the apology, not everyone would do that - it shows character that sometimes I don't have! Thanks again!!

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
25 Oct 2021
10:09:22pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

It's the same at flea markets:

1. How much do you want for it? $1.00. I can get it cheaper at Walmart. Then got to Walmart and buy it.

2. How much? $5.00. Will you take $3? Yeah, all right. I'll give you $2 then. I'll take $7 for it. But you said you'll take $3. That was the agreement before you changed it, $7 now.

3. How much? $10. I can't resell it at that price! I'm not your wholesaler.

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angore

Collector, Moderator
26 Oct 2021
07:12:32am

re: a complaint I've made before!

Back to the original post...

I keep track of all my purchases in StampManage so when I purchase something I will update the status field for the stamp in the inventory as awaiting delivery. I code it with AWD and seller name with date such as "AWD SC 10-21-21." When it arrives I clear the field. This is better than just marking off a want list since stamps not invoiced (Harvey's situation) or missing in shipment would give a false inventory status. This method has reduced duplicate purchases.

It also helps re-identify SOR approval items since catalog numbers (just book, page, position) do not show in SOR invoices. I do not track if I have been invoiced but have
not had that situation. This would catch it and can deal with it then. I would avoid sellers that do not invoice.

Example...

Image Not Found




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hfbaker

26 Oct 2021
03:48:53pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

Harvey:

"Opinions are obviously not appreciated by some members!"



Yet your opinions are very much appreciated by other members. I, for one, am a fan of your comments. I believe it is wrong for a seller to cancel a purchase without checking with the buyer first. Some may think they are doing you a favor by not invoicing a small purchase where the shipping and handling is a multiple of the items value. Some buyers may be hoping to find other items from the same buyer so as to lower the delivery cost as a percentage of the purchase, but this is not always possible. It is a nice gesture if the seller is willing to "let you off the hook" in such cases, but it should only be done with the buyer's consent.
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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

26 Oct 2021
05:03:57pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

Thanks Harry, greatly appreciated.

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d1stamper

26 Oct 2021
07:18:17pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

After sending three or more invoices for the same items and to the same buyer and the buyer does not pay.

Should I notify the buyer that I am cancelling the sale?

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Harvey

I think, therefore I am - I think!

26 Oct 2021
07:28:17pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

Doug - "yes", I think you've done your bit! Assuming, of course, the messages were received and I think we can tell if the messages have been opened. If the messages were not opened the person might not be well. I'm not sure what to do if the messages were not opened.

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
26 Oct 2021
08:04:34pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

"BUYING RULES

B3. Buyers must pay for auction lots purchased within 5 business days of receipt of an invoice from the seller, unless other terms have been specifically stated by the seller in the item listing or invoice. Buyers must notify the seller regarding any delay in payment. All time frames assume electronic payment and communication; time may be extended for those paying by check, money order, cash, or stamps (assuming those are accepted per the seller’s terms).

B4. Buyers who have not received an invoice within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent"

.

Lays out in clear english who is responsible for what and when.

'Nough Said

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sheepshanks

26 Oct 2021
08:42:25pm

re: a complaint I've made before!

"within 5 business days of completing purchases with a seller must contact the seller to request that an invoice be sent"



Now is it just me that finds this ambiguous, on the basis that the buyer perhaps has not finished purchasing from the seller. So waits for possibly more items to purchase.
None of which, of course, should deter buyers and sellers from communicating their intentions.

Personally I always pay on receipt of an invoice, whatever the amount, and yes it is sometimes more in postage than the items bought, but that is my problem. If I want them I should be prepared to pay.
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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
27 Oct 2021
05:06:03am

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

" So waits for possibly more items to purchase."



How long should the seller wait for the buyer to buy more:-

3 days, a week, 10 days, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a month, 2 months, 3 months, 5 months???


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sheepshanks

27 Oct 2021
08:47:59am

re: a complaint I've made before!

Exactly so Ian, my suggestion would be to remove B4 and for sellers to send an invoice, which if not paid within the time limit specified, will be reported to management who can liaise and if necessary withdraw purchasing rights until paid.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
27 Oct 2021
08:56:20am

re: a complaint I've made before!

B4 exists as a means of completing a loop. Buyers change emails or their server rejects an invoice. B4 adds responsibility to the buyer as well as the seller.

Since everyone freely changes the rules, i'm not worried about "musts" etc.

These rules, on both ends, give us auctioneers platforms from which to build a case if we must decide on faults (although we always prefer to solve a problem rather than punish a participant).

David, one of the three auctioneers trying to look out for you on both ends of the philatelic transaction

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Brechinite

Neddie Seagoon from The Telegoons
27 Oct 2021
10:02:51am

Auctions - Approvals

re: a complaint I've made before!

" B4 adds responsibility to the buyer as well as the seller."



That's it. Both have responsibilities.

It takes two to:-



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