Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
This is the effects of the USPS stamp issuing program along with inflation and possible smaller print runs.
From a recent Linn's ad.
The starter album
The premium.
Mystic's album - This used to sell around $45 for years (back then it came with 3 binders and you had to buy more if you added many stamp).
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Wow those are pricey! What beginner would think about spending so much? Certainly not any child……
Interesting that the Minuteman album is listed as 1847-2020 but the fine print says “pages through 2015”
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Ack! I believe I paid less than $20 for my first Minuteman album in 1972.
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After pricing albums when I got back into collecting a few years ago I quickly figured a traditional album was out of the question. Tried Steiner pages for a while but settled on Lighthouse stockbooks for the flexibility.
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I think part of the evolution that philately experienced with the advent of the internet was that collectors no longer needed to reply upon being told by some publisher ‘what’ and ‘how’ to collect. I think this trend will continue as us ‘old farts’ die off and we are replaced by collectors who are quite comfortable with finding the information they need to interface with the hobby in other ways.
Over the last 50 years I have moved further and further away from catalogs and albums. After doing plenty of ‘filling spaces’, I finally figured out that I gleaned more intrinsic enjoyment from learning than simply chasing elusive stamps or covers. Once I ‘broke the chains’ of catalogs and albums the hobby really exploded for me. Offering far more collecting opportunities; I am not sure that I would still be collecting if this had not happened.
Don
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Absolutely agreeing with you Don..
When I got back to collecting, I decided I must have something representative of every US stamp issue somewhere in my hoard. I didn't care if it was a single, a block, plate block or any kind of cover. So I wound up creating my own albums from 2 pocket pages. I cut 80lb card stock to fit the 7x5.5" pockets. And everything is just gravity held in there, other than more expensive stamps that are in stock cards in the page. That eliminated the need to buy mounts, which are probably worth more than most of my stamps these days!
In my albums I can include anything I think is neat! It's kinda like you would do for an exhibit.
And my New Jersey cover collection.. no pages exist, so I forged my own way
And now I'm working up a page for a new album. I've decided to collect state capitals on my Scott 300.
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My good friend found me a set of 2022 scott catalogs 13 volumes for $70 that looked like they had never been opened. If i treat these with care...i think i can break the chain of albums and catalogs. I knew i would have to replace my battered 2017 catalogs and was concerned about the $$$$. So that anxiety has been relieved.
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I believe some level of organization is important for beginning collectors but the "traditonal" method (a commercially printed album) is unaffordable.
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With the internet being so mainstream in todays world, many newbie collectors find cheap used albums online.
I have spoken to many kids of various ages at stamp shows I have been to asking about how they started out and most have said they - or a parent or relative - acquired a used for their initial foray into the world of stamps.
A few even said they were saving up to eventually "buy a new good one!"
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What do we mean by 'beginner'? The internet is awash with under $10 softcover albums like the kind I had when I was 8, and kits that include 100 stamps and hinges can with can still be found under $20. There are a couple of Harris beginner U.S. albums for under $50, and the Statesman, which is now twice as big as the one I have, is under $100 per volume. Does a 'beginner' need an album with complete coverage? I got my Scott National when I was in high school (early 80s) and it seemed very expensive to me at the time.
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"Beginner" is definitely a relative term regarding someone new to philately AND when speaking of a first stamp album.
A 'first' stamp album is a first for the new collector, but does not always mean what we generally think of as a "Beginner's Album."
It can be ANY used album they find for sale - 'Beginners' or not.
My first album was a used Traveller Stamp Album I purchased at a garage sale when I was 8. I believe I paid a dollar.
My neighbor and classmate got a used GIANT Citation Album - from an Uncle I think - for his first album.
I was jealous!
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I define beginner as someone new to collecting stamps and not familar with much about collecting. It may be most beginners (young or old) get started from a collection from a relative. If you read online, the first questions is often "How much is it worth"?
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I am close to completing a 3 year project of moving my U.S. collection from Minuteman albums, which were fire damaged, to National albums. I love the National albums! Next, my Canada to 1999 deserves a nice album, too. A good set of golf clubs will run 800-1000 dollars. Once you have the albums, they rarely need to be replaced. It is just how you like to collect. A lot of people collect in a way that doesn’t fit albums. It is great to have so many options!
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@smaier:
"Wow those are pricey!"
@BenFranklin1902:
"I believe I paid less than $20 for my first Minuteman album in 1972."
I see two reasons for the high prices of the albums: the first, paper and printing costs have gone up, and the second, there have been many more stamps issued in the meantime, and what's more, there are more stamps per year now than, say, in 1972 or even earlier. Maybe even a third: The money has lost some of its value over time.
Martin
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Stock pages (in my case Vario pages) are much cheaper, if still not cheap, per se (60¢ a page or so if you are lucky).
My first US album I got for very little. I still have another one I bought that I haven't finished cleaning out. One can also make/print their own pages these days.
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I have never ever bought a printed album new.
All my albums have come from mixed box lots at Auction. From the same source 15 years ago I accquired a disc of the Steiner Pages. All at much reduced prices.
I have printed albums of France, Germany, Berlin, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Nigeria, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Bosnia Herzogovenia, Great Britain and several others made from the Steiner Pages. eg Sudan, Kenya Uganda and Tanganyika, Northern Rhodesia, Southern Rhodesia, Rhodesia and Nyasaland, Pakistan, Bohemia and Moravia, Belgian Congo and Ruanda-Urindi.
There are numerous internet sites that one can download album pages from.
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Want to start a collection with preprinted pages for your self or for a Christmas present. See my posting in stamps for sale.
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I usually pay around 65 cents each for packs of 50. I think Santa is bringing me some more.
Varios are an INVESTMENT unlike mounts, hinges, and album pages since they can be reused many times as needs change so money will spent.
My initial statement was that a "collecting solution" could be bundled around stock pages and marketed to those new to collecting. I wil expand this later when I have more time.
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I make my own album pages. My choice of type and format has evolved over the years based on experience and personal preferences.
Someone who is just starting out may not have an area of specific interest and might not know how to get started, see the high album prices, and think that stamp collecting is not for them. They may not know what vario pages are or even where to get them. Making their own album pages has never occurred to any of our new collectors.
That makes local stamp clubs and mentors even more important. Education and discussion with experienced collectors can really help those starting out. Have seen that over and over when we get new members at our club.
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I agree with Sally. Been making my own pages for decades now...up to 40 loose-leaf albums now. You can always be up to date, and the home computer makes it a relatively easy task. I believe money's better spent on stamps than on albums.
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"I usually pay around 65 cents each for packs of 50. I think Santa is bringing me some more."
I bought two cases in bulk at one point for a really good price. One is still sealed. Worse comes to worse I can sell them off.
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I either purchase album pages from Steiner, or make my own album pages using Album Easy. I have a specialized Bermuda Album that was originally published by Battle Green Stamps back in the 80s. I bought supplements for them for a long time, but started making my own several years ago.
For my other collections, I either modify the Steiner pages or just make my own. I get a good deal of satisfaction doing that.
I think the real problem is for beginners, as they most likely do not know about Steiner or making one's own pages. The price tag on the Minute Man just might have people asking themselves if this is the right hobby for them. You'd think it would be in Scott / Amos' self interest to keep the barriers to entry low in order to attract new collectors to the hobby.
David
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I believe Scott has lost a lot of business to Mystic. But Mystic can use the album as a loss leader since they also sell stamps. Mystic Stamp is the top recruiter for APS.
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The times have changed, in the 1960s you could be a worldwide collector with 2 or 3 Scott International or Minkus Global albums. A person trying to collect the whole world today would have to be a billionaire or nuts...or both. So we have to pick and choose our interests. I suppose its possible to collect the United States from page 1 if you have the means.
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05:47:40pm
"I suppose its possible to collect the United States from page 1 if you have the means."
I believe that type of collecting / collection is ending with us. I'm almost 72 and that probably is about average for this group. I know very few people who still collect. People my age or older are "down sizing", how I hate those words, and younger people are not into accumulating "stuff". It's almost like they see this sort of materialism as what is wrong with the world, and maybe they have a point! Also it would be impossible now, I think, to start a good collection of classic material unless you were very very well off! And with the huge debt that the younger people have on their backs now and the huge cost of everything from food to gas to oil, etc. accumulating stamps, or anything else that is an extra, is almost impossible. Enjoy your philately because I humbly believe, with some exceptions, that we will be almost the last people to do so! This is just my opinion and I hope I am wrong but I have been in the antique business for a very long time and have seen this coming! That was my vent for the day!!
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For one wanting to get into worldwide classic collecting, Amos is selling the 1840-1940 "Part 1" Internationals with 4 binders for nearly $700, and the Minkus Global 1840-1952 for about $450 (but one would need an extra binder as only one is provided). The most recent supplements (2021 for Scott and 2022 for Minkus) are about $420 and $325. So two years of modern pages will cost more than the classic album sets do. I really have to wonder how many new supplements they actually sell, how many collectors try to keep up with even some of the issues of the last decade or so, beyond a few favorite countries....
Yeah, they don't make the Senior Statesman or Citation albums anymore.... but they would be so limited in scope if they did exist, especially as compared to the 60s and 70s, just look at the current two-volume Statesman. The best approach for a wanna-be worldwide collector would be to buy an intact collection as come up in auctions or from dealers who specialize in large lots.
Once upon a time I intended to make a collection from Steiner pages. However, I couldn't come up with a good system... I only wanted to print out pages if I needed them for the stamps I had as again there are just so many pages. But I realized I would have to check if I already had the page when I wanted to add a stamp to the collection. That extra step just seemed not worth it to me and I decided to just hoard and (now) sell rather than try to create any kind of functional worldwide collection.
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Jerryderrstamps
Your description on using Steiner pages is exactly how I collect. I only print out the pages as I need them. Early on for a country, I print a lot of pages but over time I usually have a printed page since I do not collect much after 1980. I also scan every page after adding stamps and update my inventory file in StampManage.
I do not keep a country in a dedicated binder except for a select few such as Great Britain, Canada, etc. This keeps the binder count down until you have to get more.
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The cost of printing your own pages is works out IF you are using poor quality paper; but if you are using Lignin free paper the cost of printing your own Worldwide pages is prohibitive. The high cost is why none of the album makers use good quality paper for ANY album they sell.
Note that “acid free” paper is a marketing ploy and should not fool anyone who invests a few minutes looking into what the term ‘acid free’ actually means. ‘Acid free’ simply means that they threw a handful of buffering chemicals into the paper pulp slurry during production but as long as the paper contains any Lignin, it will turn acidic over time. Adding some buffer into a paper slurry is like adding some buffer into a hot tub or pool or eating an antacid after eating spicy food. It will neutralize for a short time but once the buffer is ‘used up’ the acidic conditions bounce right back. Lignin is part of wood or woody plant cells (it is what makes trees and branches strong) so any paper made with wood or woody plants will turn acidic. This is what makes Lignin free paper expensive, it is typically made with rag and not wood products.
Luckily for stamp album makers, the paper acidification process is only seen within a single generation if environmental conditions are poor. With very good environmental conditions the acidification process will take longer. This also allows hobbyists to ‘not care’ about being temporary stewards of the material we own. You will often hear, ‘I don’t care, I’ll be dead and buried when my inexpensive album paper affects my stamps’.
But investing time, money and effort in a true family heirloom with a case of ‘acid free’ paper from a Big Box store is false economy.
Don
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I found the following paper that states it's lignin free - 80lb - 14c each sheet in packs of 250 - that doesn't seem excessive. The card stock I used to use was 110 lb so I don't know if the 80lb would be suitable for a collection but certainly much more sturdier than normal printer paper!
https://www.lcipaper.com/8-12-x-11-paper-lci-felt-70lb-warm-cream/pd/LCFELT811WW70T.html
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0.14 per page is 7 times the cost of plain paper (.02 per page). So, if a worldwide collector put together ten 3” binders at 500 pages per binder, they would need about 5000 pages. For plain paper that would be around $100 and for Lignin free paper that would be $700, in my mind that is a significant cost delta. And a difference that likely explains why album publishers do not use quality paper.
Since the advent of ‘print your own’, I have seen very few people say they use a rag paper. If folks have made an informed decision and understand the impact, then all is good. But I am disappointed that the philatelic press has not done a better job in educating folks on this topic. I also do not understand why this is not discussed more of forums and those websites which promote self-printed pages. To me, it feels a bit like an ‘inconvenient truth’ for the hobby.
Don
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Harvey....your post is depressing.
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10:36:36am
"Harvey....your post is depressing."
Yup, it sure is!!!
I closed down my antique shop a few years ago because it had turned into a huge waste of time! To be clear, it was an actual antique store containing very little junk. I always kept track of how many people were there on each day. In the early years of the shop (1980's and 1990's) most days in the summer meant at least 50 adults and sometimes up to 100. Shops in urban areas saw many more than this. Sales were sometimes close to $1000 / day but usually in the $100's. By about 2015 there were days in the summer where I saw nobody and many days where I sold very little. Even the shows were a waste of time!! Many of the older people were trying to sell as opposed to buy and most of the younger people were treating it like a road trip to a museum with absolutely no idea what they were looking at. It was basically older people trying to get rid of "stuff" their kids didn't want and younger people who were just trying to look as a kind of entertainment. Most dealers were selling on line and even that was not easy or productive! The majority of the antique shops are now gone and all of the stamp stores!
I could see what was coming and got out of the business! I think stamp collecting in on the same, not very pretty, road!!
EDIT: I know this is a bit off topic, sorry about that! I am amazed by the prices you are quoting for albums. No wonder people are printing their own pages. My albums are a bit ragged but I would not want to try to replace them!!
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Hi Harvey,
I am positive about the hobby's future until I see some actual evidence that its health is not good. And I am not talking about 1980s metrics like 'brick and mortar stamps store have closed' or 'stamp shows are struggling' or 'APS membership has shrunk'. These are all symptoms of change to be sure, but the change was in the way that people collect and shop in the post-internet era. My wife and I owned a retail store too for years in my small town. A lot of the local retailers got hit hard when a new shopping mall and a new Walmart came to town in the 1980s. Now, that same mall has less than 15% occupancy and the Walmart closed in the post-internet era. Additionally, I think that all collectibles in general saw a more significant impact post-internet. Material became available like no other time in the history of collectibles like antiques, baseball cards, and stamps. The lure of visiting a local store is pressed to compete with instant 24/7 availability of online shopping.
When I became VP of my local stamp club back in the early 1970s, I heard the same 'the hobby is dying' mantra. That was over 50 years ago yet the hobby is still going. I think that without question the hobby has greatly changed and part of that change includes trying to figure out how to measure the hobby’s health. But I am pretty sure that a huge part of that ‘health calculation’ now includes factoring in online activities. From my chair, which includes ownership in a legacy mom and pop retail store and a personal philatelic website which grew from 0 traffic to now having been visited by over 10 million hobbyists in less than ten years, my outlook is for the hobby’s health is positive.
Don
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04:06:26pm
"back in the early 1970s"
Don, I really hope you're right. I'd like philately to be healthy for many years!! But this is not the early 1970s, which is when I started collecting! I just can't imagine that a person under 50, who does not believe in possessing things, will decide to collect stamps. There will be exceptions of course and hopefully there will be enough to keep the hobby relatively healthy.
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Don, I guess I am contrasting the cost of printing pages (and I didn't include toner which would be the same no matter what paper was used) as compared to buying printed pages from the various publishers. I guess it comes down to if you feel the stamps you are going to put on the pages are worth the added expense of using a paper that will be less harmful to the stamps. Other than the fact that the stamps will be in better condition if the collection is someday sold, the buyer isn't going to care what kind of paper you used.
If I were to start a new collection today, I'd look to used hingeless albums, with or without stamps, and collect to the spaces in those. As used albums don't have a lot of resale value (used binders are a different story!) they can often be found at good prices.
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I do not agree with any advice that says if one does not use expensive paper, it is automatically wrong or not a better method (cost, customization, etc).
New collectors should be informed about far greater risks to their collection - storage conditions, using hinges especially improperly, using mounts improperly, handling with fingers, sunlight, putting pencil marks on back, smoke, glassine products, etc. These are far greater risks near term. Paper quality usually comes into play more in poor storage conditions or very long term if then.
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"...I do not agree with any advice that says if one does not use expensive paper,..."
Straw man? I do not see anyone making that argument.
Al,
Of course, the problem is that as we have seen countless times before, while a collector might be aware of the role of the environment plays, family members often do not. So using the correct rag paper is a type of insurance. If I drop dead, my family members can ‘get away’ with less-than-ideal environmental conditions if I have used the correct conservation approaches.
The margin of error is also supplemented by adding additional value. People will indeed pay more for collections which use quality hinges and mounts and true archival paper. And it will most certainly reduce value if there is even a hint of toning of stamps. Keep in mind, the pages and stamps do not have to become brittle to impact value. And if anyone thinks that toning is not an issue, there are literally tens of thousands of toned stamps for sale right now on eBay.
Lastly, we are only temporary stewards of the material we own. If folks do not care about proper conservation, then so be it. I support private ownership rights and if someone wants to light their cigars with rare stamps I think they have a right to. But as we all know, having a right does not make it the right thing to do.
What I have seen in regard to ‘print-your-own movement’ includes a fair amount of false economy, people duped by claims of ‘acid free’ paper, people being duped by a significant amount of philatelic supplies that are acidic out of the box (as your own discovery showed). The overwhelming majority of people who use lower quality paper do not even bother to periodically check for acidic conditions. If someone wants to take the position of ‘I don’t care about good stewardship’ then take the position and stand by it. But is that position a good thing to promote across the hobby? Put another way, should we be placing the conservation bar high or is it ok to place the bar at its lowest level?
And again, as my post above emphasized, if folks are making informed decisions then great. But I do not see how anyone could argue that in terms of paper selection that there is not a need to improve conservation education.
Don
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My conservativeship is not using hinges (no matter the value) or expensive paper for no real significant benefit but using HAWID style mounts. I think using mounts offers more preservation value since it protects against more risks including paper. I believe using mounts demonstrates far better than stewardship.
I try not to store directly on manila pages, Hagner pages, or in dealer cards. The paper I use has never tested acidic but I have seen manila pages and dealer cards test acidic that I have obtain from various stamp purchases.
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Al,
I based my opinion on the 17 posts that I can quickly find where the person, in threads about choosing paper for self-printed pages, that they were covered since they purchased ‘acid free’ paper. I also based my opinion the fact that there is little ever posted about the truth about the marketing ploy of ‘acid free’ paper.
What has led you to your opinion?
I think your statement about me focusing on only one aspect of conservation is unfounded. I can supply many examples of threads where I post about everything from ‘protector sheets’, the splitting up of large multiples, Crystal Mounts, vintage hinges, conserving covers, split back mounts, etc.
If you are talking only about THIS thread, I was following the flow which had decidedly moved to discussing albums and Steiner pages. Hence why I was “focused” on paper buying education and decisions.
Obviously, you are a fan of Steiner, have chosen cheap paper, and are defending your direction. No need to, I have repeatedly said that if folks have made an educated decision then all is good.
Don
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I have chosen not to use paper advertised as lingen free paper.
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For what it's worth (probably not much) here's my thoughts.
If a beginner is starting a collection, chances are that their first album will have been purchased by a parent/adult and most likely of a general page or two country style.
Quite often purchased as a starter kit, with hinges, tweezers, magnifying glass, I believe most postal authorities sell such.
As we progress with collecting, various other systems have there own appeal, varios, stockbooks, stock sheets, self printed and commercial albums according to what and how we collect and organisational skills.
Each of these comes with quite an upfront cost, out of reach of pocket money and a drain on a new families resources, you can't get much protein eating stamps (maybe a high from the hinge glue!). They also vary greatly in quality, remembering those oriental stock books of the past.
Many of our stamp purchases today, have at one time been stuck into albums with hinges and other means, some of these in old albums have been on paper that is 100 plus years old and certainly unlikely to be acid free. Let alone the envelopes that we collect as covers. We soak or otherwise remove the debris from the stamps, only to re-hinge or mount yet again.
For those who have very valuable items I understand the need to house the collection in the right conditions and with the best materials available, but as most of my own items are more as a collecting pleasure than of real value, I'm happy to keep using self made pages on card stock in binders/folders picked up cheap at thrift/charity/op shops. Quite often I feel I get more enjoyment from soaking stamps, than from actually mounting them, although it is good to see a complete page or set, especially if a couple of stamps are those elusive items.
As with Joe (Harvey) no one else in the family collects so my accumulation can be disposed of for whatever it adds to the estate value when I return to dust.
Each to their own, collect how you wish, just enjoy the hobby.
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It's not only the albums, but the very materials we collect that are seeing the marks of time. Artcraft was considered the top cachet maker and used the best materials. Now I'm seeing deterioration in these covers. Depending on the cover and the life it's led, I've got examples that the entire envelope has toned and ones with back glue aging and leaching onto the cover fronts as you can see on the above cover.
My one negative on eBay was from a numpty who declared I was selling moldy old covers as the envelope had toned and the glue had leached!
And the very stamps are showing their age. I was just using 1940s 3 cent commemoratives on mail and noticed that they separate easier, actually too easy, than I remember. Eventually as the paper shrinks, perfs will pull and separate.
People in every hobby have been doing the Chicken Little act on predicting the end of the hobby. Stamp collecting is popular enough today that Kelleher Auctions sends me a quality 80 page magazine for free, although I have never done business with them. That magazine is twice what any paid magazine in my model car hobby!
And in my model car hobby, a hobby so small that my club hosts the country's largest event, again people have been predicting the demise. But right now with all the Baby Boomers in retirement and rediscovering hobbies, that market is booming! Both major companies have seeked out new equity partners to expand, and are producing new product with this market as their target!
So figure that hobbies have another 20-30 years before we all die off.
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" I have chosen not to use paper advertised as lingen free paper."
Al, we are in agreement! I concur that no one should ever buy paper 'advertised' as lingen free paper. Interestingly enough, I have never seen any paper advertised as lingen free. Perhaps that is paper made in Lingen Germany?
I would recommend that anyone who wants to develop a family heirloom and is going to invest many, many man-hours in designing and making pages; they consider using lignin free paper. The result will be a beautiful album which will hold up for decades to come, retain value, have a wonderful tactile quality and reduce risk of toning/acidification.
Don
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If you want paper for albums, may I suggest Exact Vellum Bristol, premium cardstock 67lb. It is both acid and lignin-free. Comes in various shades and 250 sheets to a package. Bought at Office Depot.
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I've worked in natural history collections for most of my career, where lignin-free paper (and pH balanced adhesives) have been SOP for many years--as the goal is to maintain specimens (plants in my case) for hundreds of years, hence stored in light-free, low temp, low humidity conditions.
I do not expect my stamp collection to last for hundreds of years in its current state (though I hope the stamps will) so I use (hopefully) acid-free stockbooks, with labels cut out of lignin-free paper and written in pencil, out of habit I guess. I cannot imagine anyone in my family hanging onto it, so I hope I've done what I can to make it useful to its next owner/curator.
By the way, I may consider "Lingen-free" paper in the future, for Roy's sake.
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51Studebaker:
"The cost of printing your own pages is works out IF you are using poor quality paper; but if you are using Lignin free paper the cost of printing your own Worldwide pages is prohibitive. The high cost is why none of the album makers use good quality paper for ANY album they sell. "
mbo1142:
"If you want paper for albums, may I suggest Exact Vellum Bristol, premium cardstock 67lb. It is both acid and lignin-free. Comes in various shades and 250 sheets to a package. Bought at Office Depot."
Interesting posts! Well this whole thread had been informative! I bought some "acid free" paper a couple months ago thinking I would get going on making my own pages (which was just a dream I guess...because I haven't yet). I'll have to check to see if the paper is also "lignin free." If not...I'll take a look at the Exact Vellum Bristol stuff at Office Depot. I also have some stuff tagged in Amazon.
I want my stamp collection (focused mostly on US plate blocks and mint singles) to be on quality paper. If the paper is .20 per page and pre-printed pages are .10 I guess that is the cost I'll live with for printing my own on quality pages. My daughter is getting the collection with instructions on where to "dump" the collection if she does not want to keep it. I want whatever dealer to know I took some time and money to mount my collection on quality paper and mounts. And I know she could get a dealer that doesn't know an anthill from Mt Rushmore...
The things I learn here....just amazing. I'll keep reading any updates to this thread.
Thanks for all the posts!
Mike
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"pre-printed pages are .10"
Preprinted Scott Specialty pages are about $.70 per page.
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If all of your stamps and plate blocks are in mounts, then the page never touches them.
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If you are interested in testing paper pH, you can purchase a pen off ebay.
I used the pen on this page recently. The yellow X's are from using the pe Purple is good.
The same pen on a recent receipt from an SOR seller. It tested ok on the day it was tested.
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In my neck of the woods Philately is doing well if the prices being paid in the local Auction Houses are to go by.
One lot estimated at £150 went for £2600, another lot estimated at £120 went for £950. Every other lot went for 25% above estimate. Buyers premium was still to be included at 26% plus VAT. (20% on the Buyers premium).
Run of the mill mixed boxes that went for £40 last year are going for £60 this year.
The market rules OK.
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For the traditional collector, getting albums is getting experience if someone wanted a complete set. Even the entry Minuteman would give a beginner pause. I know it would like be heresy for album seller to package some stock pages, binders. maybe a inexpensive gude, etc. in a kit as a marketing tool. It is that or possibly nothing at all.
This is the effects of the USPS stamp issuing program along with inflation and possible smaller print runs.
From a recent Linn's ad.
The starter album
The premium.
Mystic's album - This used to sell around $45 for years (back then it came with 3 binders and you had to buy more if you added many stamp).
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Wow those are pricey! What beginner would think about spending so much? Certainly not any child……
Interesting that the Minuteman album is listed as 1847-2020 but the fine print says “pages through 2015”
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Ack! I believe I paid less than $20 for my first Minuteman album in 1972.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
After pricing albums when I got back into collecting a few years ago I quickly figured a traditional album was out of the question. Tried Steiner pages for a while but settled on Lighthouse stockbooks for the flexibility.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I think part of the evolution that philately experienced with the advent of the internet was that collectors no longer needed to reply upon being told by some publisher ‘what’ and ‘how’ to collect. I think this trend will continue as us ‘old farts’ die off and we are replaced by collectors who are quite comfortable with finding the information they need to interface with the hobby in other ways.
Over the last 50 years I have moved further and further away from catalogs and albums. After doing plenty of ‘filling spaces’, I finally figured out that I gleaned more intrinsic enjoyment from learning than simply chasing elusive stamps or covers. Once I ‘broke the chains’ of catalogs and albums the hobby really exploded for me. Offering far more collecting opportunities; I am not sure that I would still be collecting if this had not happened.
Don
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Absolutely agreeing with you Don..
When I got back to collecting, I decided I must have something representative of every US stamp issue somewhere in my hoard. I didn't care if it was a single, a block, plate block or any kind of cover. So I wound up creating my own albums from 2 pocket pages. I cut 80lb card stock to fit the 7x5.5" pockets. And everything is just gravity held in there, other than more expensive stamps that are in stock cards in the page. That eliminated the need to buy mounts, which are probably worth more than most of my stamps these days!
In my albums I can include anything I think is neat! It's kinda like you would do for an exhibit.
And my New Jersey cover collection.. no pages exist, so I forged my own way
And now I'm working up a page for a new album. I've decided to collect state capitals on my Scott 300.
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Auctions
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
My good friend found me a set of 2022 scott catalogs 13 volumes for $70 that looked like they had never been opened. If i treat these with care...i think i can break the chain of albums and catalogs. I knew i would have to replace my battered 2017 catalogs and was concerned about the $$$$. So that anxiety has been relieved.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I believe some level of organization is important for beginning collectors but the "traditonal" method (a commercially printed album) is unaffordable.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
With the internet being so mainstream in todays world, many newbie collectors find cheap used albums online.
I have spoken to many kids of various ages at stamp shows I have been to asking about how they started out and most have said they - or a parent or relative - acquired a used for their initial foray into the world of stamps.
A few even said they were saving up to eventually "buy a new good one!"
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
What do we mean by 'beginner'? The internet is awash with under $10 softcover albums like the kind I had when I was 8, and kits that include 100 stamps and hinges can with can still be found under $20. There are a couple of Harris beginner U.S. albums for under $50, and the Statesman, which is now twice as big as the one I have, is under $100 per volume. Does a 'beginner' need an album with complete coverage? I got my Scott National when I was in high school (early 80s) and it seemed very expensive to me at the time.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
"Beginner" is definitely a relative term regarding someone new to philately AND when speaking of a first stamp album.
A 'first' stamp album is a first for the new collector, but does not always mean what we generally think of as a "Beginner's Album."
It can be ANY used album they find for sale - 'Beginners' or not.
My first album was a used Traveller Stamp Album I purchased at a garage sale when I was 8. I believe I paid a dollar.
My neighbor and classmate got a used GIANT Citation Album - from an Uncle I think - for his first album.
I was jealous!
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I define beginner as someone new to collecting stamps and not familar with much about collecting. It may be most beginners (young or old) get started from a collection from a relative. If you read online, the first questions is often "How much is it worth"?
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08:07:52am
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I am close to completing a 3 year project of moving my U.S. collection from Minuteman albums, which were fire damaged, to National albums. I love the National albums! Next, my Canada to 1999 deserves a nice album, too. A good set of golf clubs will run 800-1000 dollars. Once you have the albums, they rarely need to be replaced. It is just how you like to collect. A lot of people collect in a way that doesn’t fit albums. It is great to have so many options!
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01:38:31pm
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
@smaier:
"Wow those are pricey!"
@BenFranklin1902:
"I believe I paid less than $20 for my first Minuteman album in 1972."
I see two reasons for the high prices of the albums: the first, paper and printing costs have gone up, and the second, there have been many more stamps issued in the meantime, and what's more, there are more stamps per year now than, say, in 1972 or even earlier. Maybe even a third: The money has lost some of its value over time.
Martin
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Stock pages (in my case Vario pages) are much cheaper, if still not cheap, per se (60¢ a page or so if you are lucky).
My first US album I got for very little. I still have another one I bought that I haven't finished cleaning out. One can also make/print their own pages these days.
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06:07:43pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I have never ever bought a printed album new.
All my albums have come from mixed box lots at Auction. From the same source 15 years ago I accquired a disc of the Steiner Pages. All at much reduced prices.
I have printed albums of France, Germany, Berlin, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Nigeria, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Bosnia Herzogovenia, Great Britain and several others made from the Steiner Pages. eg Sudan, Kenya Uganda and Tanganyika, Northern Rhodesia, Southern Rhodesia, Rhodesia and Nyasaland, Pakistan, Bohemia and Moravia, Belgian Congo and Ruanda-Urindi.
There are numerous internet sites that one can download album pages from.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Want to start a collection with preprinted pages for your self or for a Christmas present. See my posting in stamps for sale.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I usually pay around 65 cents each for packs of 50. I think Santa is bringing me some more.
Varios are an INVESTMENT unlike mounts, hinges, and album pages since they can be reused many times as needs change so money will spent.
My initial statement was that a "collecting solution" could be bundled around stock pages and marketed to those new to collecting. I wil expand this later when I have more time.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I make my own album pages. My choice of type and format has evolved over the years based on experience and personal preferences.
Someone who is just starting out may not have an area of specific interest and might not know how to get started, see the high album prices, and think that stamp collecting is not for them. They may not know what vario pages are or even where to get them. Making their own album pages has never occurred to any of our new collectors.
That makes local stamp clubs and mentors even more important. Education and discussion with experienced collectors can really help those starting out. Have seen that over and over when we get new members at our club.
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04:47:27pm
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I agree with Sally. Been making my own pages for decades now...up to 40 loose-leaf albums now. You can always be up to date, and the home computer makes it a relatively easy task. I believe money's better spent on stamps than on albums.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
"I usually pay around 65 cents each for packs of 50. I think Santa is bringing me some more."
I bought two cases in bulk at one point for a really good price. One is still sealed. Worse comes to worse I can sell them off.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I either purchase album pages from Steiner, or make my own album pages using Album Easy. I have a specialized Bermuda Album that was originally published by Battle Green Stamps back in the 80s. I bought supplements for them for a long time, but started making my own several years ago.
For my other collections, I either modify the Steiner pages or just make my own. I get a good deal of satisfaction doing that.
I think the real problem is for beginners, as they most likely do not know about Steiner or making one's own pages. The price tag on the Minute Man just might have people asking themselves if this is the right hobby for them. You'd think it would be in Scott / Amos' self interest to keep the barriers to entry low in order to attract new collectors to the hobby.
David
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I believe Scott has lost a lot of business to Mystic. But Mystic can use the album as a loss leader since they also sell stamps. Mystic Stamp is the top recruiter for APS.
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Auctions
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
The times have changed, in the 1960s you could be a worldwide collector with 2 or 3 Scott International or Minkus Global albums. A person trying to collect the whole world today would have to be a billionaire or nuts...or both. So we have to pick and choose our interests. I suppose its possible to collect the United States from page 1 if you have the means.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
12 Dec 2023
05:47:40pm
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
"I suppose its possible to collect the United States from page 1 if you have the means."
I believe that type of collecting / collection is ending with us. I'm almost 72 and that probably is about average for this group. I know very few people who still collect. People my age or older are "down sizing", how I hate those words, and younger people are not into accumulating "stuff". It's almost like they see this sort of materialism as what is wrong with the world, and maybe they have a point! Also it would be impossible now, I think, to start a good collection of classic material unless you were very very well off! And with the huge debt that the younger people have on their backs now and the huge cost of everything from food to gas to oil, etc. accumulating stamps, or anything else that is an extra, is almost impossible. Enjoy your philately because I humbly believe, with some exceptions, that we will be almost the last people to do so! This is just my opinion and I hope I am wrong but I have been in the antique business for a very long time and have seen this coming! That was my vent for the day!!
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
For one wanting to get into worldwide classic collecting, Amos is selling the 1840-1940 "Part 1" Internationals with 4 binders for nearly $700, and the Minkus Global 1840-1952 for about $450 (but one would need an extra binder as only one is provided). The most recent supplements (2021 for Scott and 2022 for Minkus) are about $420 and $325. So two years of modern pages will cost more than the classic album sets do. I really have to wonder how many new supplements they actually sell, how many collectors try to keep up with even some of the issues of the last decade or so, beyond a few favorite countries....
Yeah, they don't make the Senior Statesman or Citation albums anymore.... but they would be so limited in scope if they did exist, especially as compared to the 60s and 70s, just look at the current two-volume Statesman. The best approach for a wanna-be worldwide collector would be to buy an intact collection as come up in auctions or from dealers who specialize in large lots.
Once upon a time I intended to make a collection from Steiner pages. However, I couldn't come up with a good system... I only wanted to print out pages if I needed them for the stamps I had as again there are just so many pages. But I realized I would have to check if I already had the page when I wanted to add a stamp to the collection. That extra step just seemed not worth it to me and I decided to just hoard and (now) sell rather than try to create any kind of functional worldwide collection.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Jerryderrstamps
Your description on using Steiner pages is exactly how I collect. I only print out the pages as I need them. Early on for a country, I print a lot of pages but over time I usually have a printed page since I do not collect much after 1980. I also scan every page after adding stamps and update my inventory file in StampManage.
I do not keep a country in a dedicated binder except for a select few such as Great Britain, Canada, etc. This keeps the binder count down until you have to get more.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
The cost of printing your own pages is works out IF you are using poor quality paper; but if you are using Lignin free paper the cost of printing your own Worldwide pages is prohibitive. The high cost is why none of the album makers use good quality paper for ANY album they sell.
Note that “acid free” paper is a marketing ploy and should not fool anyone who invests a few minutes looking into what the term ‘acid free’ actually means. ‘Acid free’ simply means that they threw a handful of buffering chemicals into the paper pulp slurry during production but as long as the paper contains any Lignin, it will turn acidic over time. Adding some buffer into a paper slurry is like adding some buffer into a hot tub or pool or eating an antacid after eating spicy food. It will neutralize for a short time but once the buffer is ‘used up’ the acidic conditions bounce right back. Lignin is part of wood or woody plant cells (it is what makes trees and branches strong) so any paper made with wood or woody plants will turn acidic. This is what makes Lignin free paper expensive, it is typically made with rag and not wood products.
Luckily for stamp album makers, the paper acidification process is only seen within a single generation if environmental conditions are poor. With very good environmental conditions the acidification process will take longer. This also allows hobbyists to ‘not care’ about being temporary stewards of the material we own. You will often hear, ‘I don’t care, I’ll be dead and buried when my inexpensive album paper affects my stamps’.
But investing time, money and effort in a true family heirloom with a case of ‘acid free’ paper from a Big Box store is false economy.
Don
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I found the following paper that states it's lignin free - 80lb - 14c each sheet in packs of 250 - that doesn't seem excessive. The card stock I used to use was 110 lb so I don't know if the 80lb would be suitable for a collection but certainly much more sturdier than normal printer paper!
https://www.lcipaper.com/8-12-x-11-paper-lci-felt-70lb-warm-cream/pd/LCFELT811WW70T.html
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
0.14 per page is 7 times the cost of plain paper (.02 per page). So, if a worldwide collector put together ten 3” binders at 500 pages per binder, they would need about 5000 pages. For plain paper that would be around $100 and for Lignin free paper that would be $700, in my mind that is a significant cost delta. And a difference that likely explains why album publishers do not use quality paper.
Since the advent of ‘print your own’, I have seen very few people say they use a rag paper. If folks have made an informed decision and understand the impact, then all is good. But I am disappointed that the philatelic press has not done a better job in educating folks on this topic. I also do not understand why this is not discussed more of forums and those websites which promote self-printed pages. To me, it feels a bit like an ‘inconvenient truth’ for the hobby.
Don
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Harvey....your post is depressing.
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Dec 2023
10:36:36am
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
"Harvey....your post is depressing."
Yup, it sure is!!!
I closed down my antique shop a few years ago because it had turned into a huge waste of time! To be clear, it was an actual antique store containing very little junk. I always kept track of how many people were there on each day. In the early years of the shop (1980's and 1990's) most days in the summer meant at least 50 adults and sometimes up to 100. Shops in urban areas saw many more than this. Sales were sometimes close to $1000 / day but usually in the $100's. By about 2015 there were days in the summer where I saw nobody and many days where I sold very little. Even the shows were a waste of time!! Many of the older people were trying to sell as opposed to buy and most of the younger people were treating it like a road trip to a museum with absolutely no idea what they were looking at. It was basically older people trying to get rid of "stuff" their kids didn't want and younger people who were just trying to look as a kind of entertainment. Most dealers were selling on line and even that was not easy or productive! The majority of the antique shops are now gone and all of the stamp stores!
I could see what was coming and got out of the business! I think stamp collecting in on the same, not very pretty, road!!
EDIT: I know this is a bit off topic, sorry about that! I am amazed by the prices you are quoting for albums. No wonder people are printing their own pages. My albums are a bit ragged but I would not want to try to replace them!!
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Hi Harvey,
I am positive about the hobby's future until I see some actual evidence that its health is not good. And I am not talking about 1980s metrics like 'brick and mortar stamps store have closed' or 'stamp shows are struggling' or 'APS membership has shrunk'. These are all symptoms of change to be sure, but the change was in the way that people collect and shop in the post-internet era. My wife and I owned a retail store too for years in my small town. A lot of the local retailers got hit hard when a new shopping mall and a new Walmart came to town in the 1980s. Now, that same mall has less than 15% occupancy and the Walmart closed in the post-internet era. Additionally, I think that all collectibles in general saw a more significant impact post-internet. Material became available like no other time in the history of collectibles like antiques, baseball cards, and stamps. The lure of visiting a local store is pressed to compete with instant 24/7 availability of online shopping.
When I became VP of my local stamp club back in the early 1970s, I heard the same 'the hobby is dying' mantra. That was over 50 years ago yet the hobby is still going. I think that without question the hobby has greatly changed and part of that change includes trying to figure out how to measure the hobby’s health. But I am pretty sure that a huge part of that ‘health calculation’ now includes factoring in online activities. From my chair, which includes ownership in a legacy mom and pop retail store and a personal philatelic website which grew from 0 traffic to now having been visited by over 10 million hobbyists in less than ten years, my outlook is for the hobby’s health is positive.
Don
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This is my diabetic cat OBI! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Dec 2023
04:06:26pm
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
"back in the early 1970s"
Don, I really hope you're right. I'd like philately to be healthy for many years!! But this is not the early 1970s, which is when I started collecting! I just can't imagine that a person under 50, who does not believe in possessing things, will decide to collect stamps. There will be exceptions of course and hopefully there will be enough to keep the hobby relatively healthy.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Don, I guess I am contrasting the cost of printing pages (and I didn't include toner which would be the same no matter what paper was used) as compared to buying printed pages from the various publishers. I guess it comes down to if you feel the stamps you are going to put on the pages are worth the added expense of using a paper that will be less harmful to the stamps. Other than the fact that the stamps will be in better condition if the collection is someday sold, the buyer isn't going to care what kind of paper you used.
If I were to start a new collection today, I'd look to used hingeless albums, with or without stamps, and collect to the spaces in those. As used albums don't have a lot of resale value (used binders are a different story!) they can often be found at good prices.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I do not agree with any advice that says if one does not use expensive paper, it is automatically wrong or not a better method (cost, customization, etc).
New collectors should be informed about far greater risks to their collection - storage conditions, using hinges especially improperly, using mounts improperly, handling with fingers, sunlight, putting pencil marks on back, smoke, glassine products, etc. These are far greater risks near term. Paper quality usually comes into play more in poor storage conditions or very long term if then.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
"...I do not agree with any advice that says if one does not use expensive paper,..."
Straw man? I do not see anyone making that argument.
Al,
Of course, the problem is that as we have seen countless times before, while a collector might be aware of the role of the environment plays, family members often do not. So using the correct rag paper is a type of insurance. If I drop dead, my family members can ‘get away’ with less-than-ideal environmental conditions if I have used the correct conservation approaches.
The margin of error is also supplemented by adding additional value. People will indeed pay more for collections which use quality hinges and mounts and true archival paper. And it will most certainly reduce value if there is even a hint of toning of stamps. Keep in mind, the pages and stamps do not have to become brittle to impact value. And if anyone thinks that toning is not an issue, there are literally tens of thousands of toned stamps for sale right now on eBay.
Lastly, we are only temporary stewards of the material we own. If folks do not care about proper conservation, then so be it. I support private ownership rights and if someone wants to light their cigars with rare stamps I think they have a right to. But as we all know, having a right does not make it the right thing to do.
What I have seen in regard to ‘print-your-own movement’ includes a fair amount of false economy, people duped by claims of ‘acid free’ paper, people being duped by a significant amount of philatelic supplies that are acidic out of the box (as your own discovery showed). The overwhelming majority of people who use lower quality paper do not even bother to periodically check for acidic conditions. If someone wants to take the position of ‘I don’t care about good stewardship’ then take the position and stand by it. But is that position a good thing to promote across the hobby? Put another way, should we be placing the conservation bar high or is it ok to place the bar at its lowest level?
And again, as my post above emphasized, if folks are making informed decisions then great. But I do not see how anyone could argue that in terms of paper selection that there is not a need to improve conservation education.
Don
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
My conservativeship is not using hinges (no matter the value) or expensive paper for no real significant benefit but using HAWID style mounts. I think using mounts offers more preservation value since it protects against more risks including paper. I believe using mounts demonstrates far better than stewardship.
I try not to store directly on manila pages, Hagner pages, or in dealer cards. The paper I use has never tested acidic but I have seen manila pages and dealer cards test acidic that I have obtain from various stamp purchases.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
Al,
I based my opinion on the 17 posts that I can quickly find where the person, in threads about choosing paper for self-printed pages, that they were covered since they purchased ‘acid free’ paper. I also based my opinion the fact that there is little ever posted about the truth about the marketing ploy of ‘acid free’ paper.
What has led you to your opinion?
I think your statement about me focusing on only one aspect of conservation is unfounded. I can supply many examples of threads where I post about everything from ‘protector sheets’, the splitting up of large multiples, Crystal Mounts, vintage hinges, conserving covers, split back mounts, etc.
If you are talking only about THIS thread, I was following the flow which had decidedly moved to discussing albums and Steiner pages. Hence why I was “focused” on paper buying education and decisions.
Obviously, you are a fan of Steiner, have chosen cheap paper, and are defending your direction. No need to, I have repeatedly said that if folks have made an educated decision then all is good.
Don
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I have chosen not to use paper advertised as lingen free paper.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
For what it's worth (probably not much) here's my thoughts.
If a beginner is starting a collection, chances are that their first album will have been purchased by a parent/adult and most likely of a general page or two country style.
Quite often purchased as a starter kit, with hinges, tweezers, magnifying glass, I believe most postal authorities sell such.
As we progress with collecting, various other systems have there own appeal, varios, stockbooks, stock sheets, self printed and commercial albums according to what and how we collect and organisational skills.
Each of these comes with quite an upfront cost, out of reach of pocket money and a drain on a new families resources, you can't get much protein eating stamps (maybe a high from the hinge glue!). They also vary greatly in quality, remembering those oriental stock books of the past.
Many of our stamp purchases today, have at one time been stuck into albums with hinges and other means, some of these in old albums have been on paper that is 100 plus years old and certainly unlikely to be acid free. Let alone the envelopes that we collect as covers. We soak or otherwise remove the debris from the stamps, only to re-hinge or mount yet again.
For those who have very valuable items I understand the need to house the collection in the right conditions and with the best materials available, but as most of my own items are more as a collecting pleasure than of real value, I'm happy to keep using self made pages on card stock in binders/folders picked up cheap at thrift/charity/op shops. Quite often I feel I get more enjoyment from soaking stamps, than from actually mounting them, although it is good to see a complete page or set, especially if a couple of stamps are those elusive items.
As with Joe (Harvey) no one else in the family collects so my accumulation can be disposed of for whatever it adds to the estate value when I return to dust.
Each to their own, collect how you wish, just enjoy the hobby.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
It's not only the albums, but the very materials we collect that are seeing the marks of time. Artcraft was considered the top cachet maker and used the best materials. Now I'm seeing deterioration in these covers. Depending on the cover and the life it's led, I've got examples that the entire envelope has toned and ones with back glue aging and leaching onto the cover fronts as you can see on the above cover.
My one negative on eBay was from a numpty who declared I was selling moldy old covers as the envelope had toned and the glue had leached!
And the very stamps are showing their age. I was just using 1940s 3 cent commemoratives on mail and noticed that they separate easier, actually too easy, than I remember. Eventually as the paper shrinks, perfs will pull and separate.
People in every hobby have been doing the Chicken Little act on predicting the end of the hobby. Stamp collecting is popular enough today that Kelleher Auctions sends me a quality 80 page magazine for free, although I have never done business with them. That magazine is twice what any paid magazine in my model car hobby!
And in my model car hobby, a hobby so small that my club hosts the country's largest event, again people have been predicting the demise. But right now with all the Baby Boomers in retirement and rediscovering hobbies, that market is booming! Both major companies have seeked out new equity partners to expand, and are producing new product with this market as their target!
So figure that hobbies have another 20-30 years before we all die off.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
" I have chosen not to use paper advertised as lingen free paper."
Al, we are in agreement! I concur that no one should ever buy paper 'advertised' as lingen free paper. Interestingly enough, I have never seen any paper advertised as lingen free. Perhaps that is paper made in Lingen Germany?
I would recommend that anyone who wants to develop a family heirloom and is going to invest many, many man-hours in designing and making pages; they consider using lignin free paper. The result will be a beautiful album which will hold up for decades to come, retain value, have a wonderful tactile quality and reduce risk of toning/acidification.
Don
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
If you want paper for albums, may I suggest Exact Vellum Bristol, premium cardstock 67lb. It is both acid and lignin-free. Comes in various shades and 250 sheets to a package. Bought at Office Depot.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
I've worked in natural history collections for most of my career, where lignin-free paper (and pH balanced adhesives) have been SOP for many years--as the goal is to maintain specimens (plants in my case) for hundreds of years, hence stored in light-free, low temp, low humidity conditions.
I do not expect my stamp collection to last for hundreds of years in its current state (though I hope the stamps will) so I use (hopefully) acid-free stockbooks, with labels cut out of lignin-free paper and written in pencil, out of habit I guess. I cannot imagine anyone in my family hanging onto it, so I hope I've done what I can to make it useful to its next owner/curator.
By the way, I may consider "Lingen-free" paper in the future, for Roy's sake.
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01:35:52pm
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
51Studebaker:
"The cost of printing your own pages is works out IF you are using poor quality paper; but if you are using Lignin free paper the cost of printing your own Worldwide pages is prohibitive. The high cost is why none of the album makers use good quality paper for ANY album they sell. "
mbo1142:
"If you want paper for albums, may I suggest Exact Vellum Bristol, premium cardstock 67lb. It is both acid and lignin-free. Comes in various shades and 250 sheets to a package. Bought at Office Depot."
Interesting posts! Well this whole thread had been informative! I bought some "acid free" paper a couple months ago thinking I would get going on making my own pages (which was just a dream I guess...because I haven't yet). I'll have to check to see if the paper is also "lignin free." If not...I'll take a look at the Exact Vellum Bristol stuff at Office Depot. I also have some stuff tagged in Amazon.
I want my stamp collection (focused mostly on US plate blocks and mint singles) to be on quality paper. If the paper is .20 per page and pre-printed pages are .10 I guess that is the cost I'll live with for printing my own on quality pages. My daughter is getting the collection with instructions on where to "dump" the collection if she does not want to keep it. I want whatever dealer to know I took some time and money to mount my collection on quality paper and mounts. And I know she could get a dealer that doesn't know an anthill from Mt Rushmore...
The things I learn here....just amazing. I'll keep reading any updates to this thread.
Thanks for all the posts!
Mike
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
"pre-printed pages are .10"
Preprinted Scott Specialty pages are about $.70 per page.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
If all of your stamps and plate blocks are in mounts, then the page never touches them.
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re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
If you are interested in testing paper pH, you can purchase a pen off ebay.
I used the pen on this page recently. The yellow X's are from using the pe Purple is good.
The same pen on a recent receipt from an SOR seller. It tested ok on the day it was tested.
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06:28:27pm
Auctions - Approvals
re: The cost of collecting a tradtional way
In my neck of the woods Philately is doing well if the prices being paid in the local Auction Houses are to go by.
One lot estimated at £150 went for £2600, another lot estimated at £120 went for £950. Every other lot went for 25% above estimate. Buyers premium was still to be included at 26% plus VAT. (20% on the Buyers premium).
Run of the mill mixed boxes that went for £40 last year are going for £60 this year.
The market rules OK.
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