Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
12:59:15pm
EDIT: One more question please. The front cover of the Unitrade precancel book shows a London, Ontario named precancel with part of the first "O" cutoff so it reads "LUNDON". This is not mentioned in the catalog and at first glance online I can't find it there either. Does anyone have any information on this?
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Here is what the 2015 Canada Precancel catalogue has for Perth
No numbered issues
they had a PO number according to this list at the front of the Catalogue but never used number precancels.
And here is what they have under Varieties for London
My copy is the 7th edition 2015. There is likley a more current one that may have new information.
Hope this helps
Bob
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06:04:07pm
Thanks Bob! I have the same information but for some reason I never looked in the clipped letter area for LUNDON - pretty dumb. You first two scans show my problem with the #430 Perth. The first scan doesn't show it as existing and the second scan claims that it does exist! Which is right? Is there actually a numbered precancel with 430 on it? Help please!!
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What do the numbers mean?
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09:27:55am
"Money Order Office Numbers (MOON) were precancels issued to post offices that sold money orders starting in the mid-1920s. The post office stopped producing precancels in 1982. "
Each office that issued money orders was given a different number. There seems to be either 48 or 47 different numbers depending on whether or not Perth actually had a number. It seems odd that not every post office did money orders and according to the list shown above there were none in Prince Edward Island up to 1982! Also Newfoundland never had precancels at all. Unless you include the 4 towns (?) in the US with the name Newfoundland!! I have one of those but am not positive which state it is! It has to be either NJ, Penn.,Kentucky or N. Dak. I think I see an "A" so it might be North Dakota. If I ever see another Newfoundland, US postmark I'll probably pick it up just for fun.
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""Money Order Office Numbers (MOON) were precancels issued to post offices that sold money orders starting in the mid-1920s. The post office stopped producing precancels in 1982. ""
"Each office that issued money orders was given a different number. There seems to be either 48 or 47 different numbers depending on whether or not Perth actually had a number.
"
Harvey,
I just checked the 1945 Canada Official Postal Guide. All postoffices are assigned a number. Those that are able to sell and cash money orders are given a 4 digit number called a Money Order Office Number. According to the Postal Guide, there are over 7300 offices with a MOON, not just the 48 listed above.
Jan
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03:34:22pm
So of all the ones given a MOON it sounds like only 47 or 48 were issued with numbered precancels to match the number. Am I interpreting this right?
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09:41:35am
Just bought the last one I needed to complete the Canada numbered precancels - Paris, Ont. #4004. I found it on Deveney Stamps for a very reasonable price. When it arrives I'll post a picture of the whole collection of 47 stamps! Sure feels nice to finish a collection!
The front of the Unitrade Precancel Catalog says one exists for Perth Ont. (#4030) but according to any experts I managed to contact this stamp was never produced. The Perth PO does have 4030 as it's Moon (money order office number) number but no stamp has ever been found.
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Lots of interesting Pre-Cancel Facts!
I guess, that this is a fake:
https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/canada-162-used-fake-precancel/62242941
Copy & Paste. I don't want this to become a rant about how I can make it click-a-ble
well, Joe, I think you have completed your number cancel set! Di the galt ever come in?
An interesting hobby sector!
The linked stamp could be real..
If tit was written by a PO worker by hand.
$10 might be worth the shot.
-Ari
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12:58:06pm
The one I bought was not that one, thankfully!! That one looks like it was done with a black marker!! I know there are fakes out there, that's why I'm not interested in the five expensive named precancels I'm missing, way too easy to fake!!! Here's what I just got - much better!! The double strike is quite nice!
https://deveneystamps.com/products/canad ...
EDIT: Ari, I just re-read your post. The last comment is interesting. If a stamp is turned into a precancel by a postal worker with a felt pen, is it still a precancel? Any comment on that? Of course, without written verification it would be hard, or impossible, to prove. Also a precancel would not normally be postmarked. That's odd unless someone added the postmark later to make an album filler for this precancel since it is fairly scarce, not expensive, just difficult to find. Since I have the real thing coming, at least I hope so, I have no interest in this very odd item!
I did get the named Galt precancel from you. Only 5 of those to go and they are way too pricey to bother with. So, unless some miracle happens I'm going to consider the named precancels for Canada as finished as they are likely to be!
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Harvey,
My references tend to be rather old.
My 1983 catalog of precancels does indeed list a precancel for Perth with number 4030.
Specifically it says it is on Scott 151, 1 cent green Die II. My 1988 copy of The Canada Precancel Handbook also explicitly lists it.
It seems that it was delisted sometime between then and 2015. There must be some reference somewhere as to why this was done.
Jan
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05:06:17pm
Jan, do any of these references provide a price? It would be totally out of date but it could be compared to other precancels. I've been corresponding with Deveney Stamps, one of the major dealers in Canada stamps, and they have never seen one. So if it does exist it must be quite rare!!
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Harvey,
In 1983:
Perth (1-85): $50 (named one)
Perth (2-151): $100 (numbered one)
I've dealt with Deveney Stamps. They have impressed me as being very knowledgeable about precancels.
It was through them that I managed to complete my set of Beamsville precancels - the only ones I've bothered to collect.
Jan
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Harvey,
A bit more information:
The 1978 edition of the precancel does not include the numbered Perth cancel.
The 1992 edition does, and shows a picture of one.
Jan
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05:27:14pm
I'm getting the impression that the numbered Perth precancel does exist but is very rare. I'd love to know if anyone here has ever seen one, or even a picture of one. I have the named one, I bought it from one of our young members, Ari! If the numbered one does exist it would probably be outside what I would pay for a "fun collection". Sort of like my named Canada precancel collection, I am considering it "complete" even though there are five pricey ones I don't have, and probably never will!! Thanks for your help!!
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I was honored to help " complete that set!"
Believe me, I'm on the look out for those...
The Perth one was found in a random lot!
It makes me very happy to think it has a prominent place in your collection.
I believe I have the scan of it somewhere in my online files...
Working on sorting out what i should do with my Cook islands stamps currently.
-ari 
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08:24:29pm
Jan - My Unitrade precancel catalog is the 5th edition with dates 1996, 1999 and 2004. It mentions Perth in it's list near the front but in it's town and city area only mentions two named precancels and the only picture it shows is of a named one. Is it possible for you to scan and show a picture of the numbered one shown in the 1992 edition? This implies that it does exist!! So maybe I have 47/48 and not 47/47!!
When the Paris numbered precancel arrives I'll show a scan of my two Canada collections. I might try to finish my collection of one each of the barred varieties next. I think I have about half already!
Ari - Your help was greatly appreciated!! That Perth names one is also very difficult to find. The ones for Amherst, Truro, Sydney, Chatham and Carberry are probably too pricey to get!
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Nope!
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10:05:47am
I decided to add "precancel Perth" to my saved E-Bay searches to see if a numbered precancel shows up at some point. You never really know. If anyone out there could scan a picture from an early Unitrade Precancel Catalogue I would love to see it!!
Edit: Just providing book prices in Canada dollars for the 5 named precancels I am missing.
"The ones for Amherst ($2000), Truro ($300), Sydney ($800), Chatham ($400) and Carberry ($400) are probably too pricey to get!"
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Ok, here is the image of the 4030 (Perth) numbered precancel (taken from the 1992 edition of the catalog):
To be honest, I'm not convinced. I wonder if it was judged to be counterfeit and thus dropped from subsequent editions of the catalog.
It should be possible to find more in the philatelic literature of this time period.
Jan
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01:24:52pm
Ari sent this stamp via a link a few posts above, listed in Hipstamp by Deveney stamps as a fake! I'm tempted to pick it up for the heck of it, just as a bit of a joke!! I think the one shown above is very similar, but who knows for sure!!!
EDIT: I think it is the same stamp, it even has the letters on the bottom, and for the price of $10, I thought what the heck (If this is swearing I'm sorry), and ordered it. You never know, if it was actually written out by a postal employee, it just might be considered legit!! 
I guess now I'll consider myself to be 48/48! 
What a huge coincidence that this would be the same one from the old Unitrade. That fact alone makes it a must have, even if it is fake!!!
From Google, for the benefit of the complainers in the audience!
"Is "heck" a rude word?
Is “Heck” a Bad Word? Here's Everything You Need to Know
No, it's generally not bad to say heck.
Instead, it's a euphemism (a word or phrase that you might use in place of something more offensive or explicit) for “hell,” which is considered more offensive and is deemed a curse word"
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Looks like a real stamp to me!
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03:27:41pm
Would this faked precancel have been usable as postage? Can I mark all over a stamp and then put it in the mail and have it accepted? To me the precancel part of this stamp looks faked. In that case is it useful as postage at the post office?
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Not the same stamp, second zero is very different.
Is the postmark under or over the precancel? Why was a precancel subsequently postmarked? Appreciate it still happens today.
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04:32:55pm
There's so much of the stamp that is identical that it's very odd. Even the parts that sort of look like postmarks are the same!! Very strange indeed!!
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Well, glad I could help you again Joe!!!
NOW you really have your number section done!
CONGRATS!!! 
-Ari
P.S. For $10 why not?
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03:55:20pm
You're right, for $10 why not? I need to do some research as well, if possible. If this is not the same stamp pictured in the 1992 Unitrade then it is too close to be a coincidence. If there's more than one then how many are there and what were they used for? Maybe someone in the Perth post office did a whole sheet of them for some company to use. It's possible there is some importance to them but there might be no way to find out. But for only $10 there might be some really interesting stuff going on - probably not, but you never know. And again, without your help I doubt if I would have ever found this odd stamp!!
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Anytime, my friend! 
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03:50:35pm
Does anyone out there know if there is a precancel expert who can tell me anything about the Perth stamp in this post? I'm 99% sure it's a fake but it is incredibly close to the stamp shown in the 1992 Unitrade Canada precancel catalogue, too close to be a fluke. The fact that it was recognized by Unitrade for a while is also curious. I emailed Deveney Stamps about Perth precancels and they could not tell me anything. I mounted it with my other numbered precancels whether it's a fake or not but maybe someone out there has more information!! Here's the picture again as a reminder. I wish I knew what the post mark says!
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Run it thru ImageSeluth
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04:25:44pm
Sorry, can't, don't want to stress my poor old computer until I finish the book I'm working on! That's also the reason I don't set up a scanner or a new camera, I think I've said this several times before. I've used a magnifier on the stamp and can pick out some letters but they don't seem to make sense. I'll keep trying!!
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See scans
Why do you call this Candian a Perth stamp?
Looks like a real stamp to me.
You said " I'm 99% sure it's a fake but it is incredibly close to the stamp shown in the 1992 Unitrade Canada precancel catalogue, too close to be a fluke." Fake or Fluke???
Hope this help you!
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the numerals on the two precancels (from auction and from catalogue) appear different to me, although both also appear to be hand-drawn. The double lines are also not perfectly parallel as they would be in a machine-affixed cancel.
Don't know Canadian precancel rules, but US precancel rules prohibit their use except with permit and by following postal regulations (which usually require minimums, envelopes organized by postal rules, paper work, and fee). There is a US exception (free) that allows individual use but still has requirements.
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05:21:36pm
"Why do you call this Candian a Perth stamp?"
The number is the number of the Perth post office.
"Looks like a real stamp to me."
The stamp is real, the precancel is not.
"You said " I'm 99% sure it's a fake but it is incredibly close to the stamp shown in the 1992 Unitrade Canada precancel catalogue, too close to be a fluke." Fake or Fluke???"
fluke - it is too similar to be a coincidence, IMHO. The numbers are a bit different but the lines are very similar and the unreadable postmarks (?) seem to be the same.
"Hope this help you!"
No offence intended, but not really. I can see exactly what you show by using a strong loop. It still, to me, doesn't make sense!
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Take the Imageseluth image I provided, load ImageSeluth, then open the image I provided and then make adjustments to the image until you can see what you need.
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05:42:34pm
"load ImageSeluth"
NO
I will state this for one last time! My computer is old and sensitive but it contains very important files needed for a book I am writing. I will eventually get a new system but I am not ready to do that yet. Believe it or not, I am still using Windows 7 and I need to be careful with what I do. So, no, Imagesluth is not possible for a while!!!
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Windows 7...
And you are writing a book!
Wow! Whats the book about, if I may ask...
HERE 1899, I have run it on my image slueth.
Truth be told, I DO see a small difference, those mystery words are clearer.
Something about a company?
Maybe it was a private deal with a Perth Company, and they did this just for them?
If so, I deem it a REAL pre-cancel, and it is probably worth $$$$!
Good luck, Joe!
-Ari
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08:39:50am
Thanks for the help Ari and I hope you're right about the precancel - but I'll probably never know!! I'm part way through a book, and it's real slow work, on the history of baseball in my home province of Queen's County, Nova Scotia, the Liverpool Larrupers!! I've slowed down lately but eventually it will be finished!!
Joe
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@PhilatelistMag20
I'm glad you have your scanner and now using ImageSeluth on this Candian stamp.
Do you think these could be French words?
Your ImageSeluth image is way better than mine!
1899
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03:56:58pm
The "words" are
EAT RIGHT
FOR HEALTH
a slogan cancel that was used in 9 major cities across the country from 1943-1951 and again from 1953-1955.
IMO, the "precancel" is clearly handwritten -- the open "0", the different 0's and it looks nothing like the illustration of the "4030" Perth pre-cancel in my 1992 Walburn Precancel Catalog. In addition, the horizontal bar of the "4" in the Walburn illustration crosses the vertical bar, which it does not in the illustrated stamps.
Lastly, although new things can be found since 1992, Walburn records this 4030 precancel only on the 1c GREEN Leaf issue, (and specifically, Die II) and not the 1c orange.
Roy
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04:04:59pm
Thanks Roy, great information. Could you scan and show the illustration from your 1992 Walburn Precancel Catalog. I like having the stamp but it looks like a real Perth precancel does exist if I can ever find one! Do you mind if I cut and paste your information into a document I keep for stamp information? Thanks very very much for telling me what the words are on the stamp!
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04:23:04pm
To add to the confusion I just bought these on E-Bay! I've bought from this person before and have always been pleased. How would you classify these? I bought them as a bit of a joke but I'm really not sure what to call them!!
INHO if these were on the envelopes themselves they could qualify as legitimate precancels. Putting them on paper stationary makes them pretty useless as precancels. So to me these are a novelty only with no value as precancels. To me they were worth the price as a novelty but if the precancel actually exists I still don't have one! Comments are welcome!!
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Roy, good research!
Maybe, just the 1c green was recorded, BUT the Orange was doner to, as they had run out of the green stamps.
If this is stupid, sorry!
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04:10:00pm
I got in touch with Deveney stamps about the two items shown above. They weren't able to provide much information but they tried to be as helpful as they could. I advice anyone involved with any vintage Canada material to check out their web site, great stuff can be found there!!
Here's a quote and a picture of a page they sent to me.
If any one out there can supply more information please don't be shy!!
"Specific mailers did use precancels on postal stationery cards, that is most likely what these are torn from. There isn’t much info available about them, but we have attached a picture of the section from the Webb stationery catalogue that does list a couple of types."
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11:04:12am
Here's my collection of Canada's numbered precancels. It is complete unless a valid copy of Perth exists, and if it does it would be pricey!! I have the two Perth numbered precancels on stationary as shown two posts above but I'm not sure how to count those. I'm also including my collection of Canada precancels with place names. I'm never, probably, going to finish it because there are 5 rather pricey ones to find!!
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I am glad to see such an impressive pre-cancel collection Joe!
I am honored to have been able to have contributed to it!!
-Ari
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Jan 2025
12:59:15pm
A question!! I lately started a collection of Canada's numbered precancels to go with my collection of those done with place names and bars. I am using the list from the beginning of my Unitrade catalog of precancels as a check list for what's available. I was just checking the list for ones I am missing and they list a Perth, Ontario with #4030. I checked the main area of the catalog to check for a price and the stamp is not listed as existing in that form, all they list are two named precancels at about $150. I also can't seem to find a Perth #4030 online anywhere. Does anyone know if this stamp actually exists or is there a mistake in Unitrade? The closest number seems to be #4035 which is Peterboro, Ontario. I know there are a few Canada precancel collectors on SoR so can one of you help me with this?
EDIT: One more question please. The front cover of the Unitrade precancel book shows a London, Ontario named precancel with part of the first "O" cutoff so it reads "LUNDON". This is not mentioned in the catalog and at first glance online I can't find it there either. Does anyone have any information on this?
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05:46:57pm
Approvals
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Here is what the 2015 Canada Precancel catalogue has for Perth
No numbered issues
they had a PO number according to this list at the front of the Catalogue but never used number precancels.
And here is what they have under Varieties for London
My copy is the 7th edition 2015. There is likley a more current one that may have new information.
Hope this helps
Bob
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
04 Jan 2025
06:04:07pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Thanks Bob! I have the same information but for some reason I never looked in the clipped letter area for LUNDON - pretty dumb. You first two scans show my problem with the #430 Perth. The first scan doesn't show it as existing and the second scan claims that it does exist! Which is right? Is there actually a numbered precancel with 430 on it? Help please!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
What do the numbers mean?
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Jan 2025
09:27:55am
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
"Money Order Office Numbers (MOON) were precancels issued to post offices that sold money orders starting in the mid-1920s. The post office stopped producing precancels in 1982. "
Each office that issued money orders was given a different number. There seems to be either 48 or 47 different numbers depending on whether or not Perth actually had a number. It seems odd that not every post office did money orders and according to the list shown above there were none in Prince Edward Island up to 1982! Also Newfoundland never had precancels at all. Unless you include the 4 towns (?) in the US with the name Newfoundland!! I have one of those but am not positive which state it is! It has to be either NJ, Penn.,Kentucky or N. Dak. I think I see an "A" so it might be North Dakota. If I ever see another Newfoundland, US postmark I'll probably pick it up just for fun.
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03:27:50pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
""Money Order Office Numbers (MOON) were precancels issued to post offices that sold money orders starting in the mid-1920s. The post office stopped producing precancels in 1982. ""
"Each office that issued money orders was given a different number. There seems to be either 48 or 47 different numbers depending on whether or not Perth actually had a number.
"
Harvey,
I just checked the 1945 Canada Official Postal Guide. All postoffices are assigned a number. Those that are able to sell and cash money orders are given a 4 digit number called a Money Order Office Number. According to the Postal Guide, there are over 7300 offices with a MOON, not just the 48 listed above.
Jan
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
05 Jan 2025
03:34:22pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
So of all the ones given a MOON it sounds like only 47 or 48 were issued with numbered precancels to match the number. Am I interpreting this right?
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
23 Jun 2025
09:41:35am
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Just bought the last one I needed to complete the Canada numbered precancels - Paris, Ont. #4004. I found it on Deveney Stamps for a very reasonable price. When it arrives I'll post a picture of the whole collection of 47 stamps! Sure feels nice to finish a collection!
The front of the Unitrade Precancel Catalog says one exists for Perth Ont. (#4030) but according to any experts I managed to contact this stamp was never produced. The Perth PO does have 4030 as it's Moon (money order office number) number but no stamp has ever been found.
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Lots of interesting Pre-Cancel Facts!
I guess, that this is a fake:
https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/canada-162-used-fake-precancel/62242941
Copy & Paste. I don't want this to become a rant about how I can make it click-a-ble
well, Joe, I think you have completed your number cancel set! Di the galt ever come in?
An interesting hobby sector!
The linked stamp could be real..
If tit was written by a PO worker by hand.
$10 might be worth the shot.
-Ari
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
23 Jun 2025
12:58:06pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
The one I bought was not that one, thankfully!! That one looks like it was done with a black marker!! I know there are fakes out there, that's why I'm not interested in the five expensive named precancels I'm missing, way too easy to fake!!! Here's what I just got - much better!! The double strike is quite nice!
https://deveneystamps.com/products/canad ...
EDIT: Ari, I just re-read your post. The last comment is interesting. If a stamp is turned into a precancel by a postal worker with a felt pen, is it still a precancel? Any comment on that? Of course, without written verification it would be hard, or impossible, to prove. Also a precancel would not normally be postmarked. That's odd unless someone added the postmark later to make an album filler for this precancel since it is fairly scarce, not expensive, just difficult to find. Since I have the real thing coming, at least I hope so, I have no interest in this very odd item!
I did get the named Galt precancel from you. Only 5 of those to go and they are way too pricey to bother with. So, unless some miracle happens I'm going to consider the named precancels for Canada as finished as they are likely to be!
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04:57:52pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Harvey,
My references tend to be rather old.
My 1983 catalog of precancels does indeed list a precancel for Perth with number 4030.
Specifically it says it is on Scott 151, 1 cent green Die II. My 1988 copy of The Canada Precancel Handbook also explicitly lists it.
It seems that it was delisted sometime between then and 2015. There must be some reference somewhere as to why this was done.
Jan
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jun 2025
05:06:17pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Jan, do any of these references provide a price? It would be totally out of date but it could be compared to other precancels. I've been corresponding with Deveney Stamps, one of the major dealers in Canada stamps, and they have never seen one. So if it does exist it must be quite rare!!
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05:16:01pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Harvey,
In 1983:
Perth (1-85): $50 (named one)
Perth (2-151): $100 (numbered one)
I've dealt with Deveney Stamps. They have impressed me as being very knowledgeable about precancels.
It was through them that I managed to complete my set of Beamsville precancels - the only ones I've bothered to collect.
Jan
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05:25:52pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Harvey,
A bit more information:
The 1978 edition of the precancel does not include the numbered Perth cancel.
The 1992 edition does, and shows a picture of one.
Jan
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jun 2025
05:27:14pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
I'm getting the impression that the numbered Perth precancel does exist but is very rare. I'd love to know if anyone here has ever seen one, or even a picture of one. I have the named one, I bought it from one of our young members, Ari! If the numbered one does exist it would probably be outside what I would pay for a "fun collection". Sort of like my named Canada precancel collection, I am considering it "complete" even though there are five pricey ones I don't have, and probably never will!! Thanks for your help!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
I was honored to help " complete that set!"
Believe me, I'm on the look out for those...
The Perth one was found in a random lot!
It makes me very happy to think it has a prominent place in your collection.
I believe I have the scan of it somewhere in my online files...
Working on sorting out what i should do with my Cook islands stamps currently.
-ari
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
24 Jun 2025
08:24:29pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Jan - My Unitrade precancel catalog is the 5th edition with dates 1996, 1999 and 2004. It mentions Perth in it's list near the front but in it's town and city area only mentions two named precancels and the only picture it shows is of a named one. Is it possible for you to scan and show a picture of the numbered one shown in the 1992 edition? This implies that it does exist!! So maybe I have 47/48 and not 47/47!!
When the Paris numbered precancel arrives I'll show a scan of my two Canada collections. I might try to finish my collection of one each of the barred varieties next. I think I have about half already!
Ari - Your help was greatly appreciated!! That Perth names one is also very difficult to find. The ones for Amherst, Truro, Sydney, Chatham and Carberry are probably too pricey to get!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Nope!
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
26 Jun 2025
10:05:47am
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
I decided to add "precancel Perth" to my saved E-Bay searches to see if a numbered precancel shows up at some point. You never really know. If anyone out there could scan a picture from an early Unitrade Precancel Catalogue I would love to see it!!
Edit: Just providing book prices in Canada dollars for the 5 named precancels I am missing.
"The ones for Amherst ($2000), Truro ($300), Sydney ($800), Chatham ($400) and Carberry ($400) are probably too pricey to get!"
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11:44:11am
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Ok, here is the image of the 4030 (Perth) numbered precancel (taken from the 1992 edition of the catalog):
To be honest, I'm not convinced. I wonder if it was judged to be counterfeit and thus dropped from subsequent editions of the catalog.
It should be possible to find more in the philatelic literature of this time period.
Jan
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26 Jun 2025
01:24:52pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Ari sent this stamp via a link a few posts above, listed in Hipstamp by Deveney stamps as a fake! I'm tempted to pick it up for the heck of it, just as a bit of a joke!! I think the one shown above is very similar, but who knows for sure!!!
EDIT: I think it is the same stamp, it even has the letters on the bottom, and for the price of $10, I thought what the heck (If this is swearing I'm sorry), and ordered it. You never know, if it was actually written out by a postal employee, it just might be considered legit!!
I guess now I'll consider myself to be 48/48!
What a huge coincidence that this would be the same one from the old Unitrade. That fact alone makes it a must have, even if it is fake!!!
From Google, for the benefit of the complainers in the audience!
"Is "heck" a rude word?
Is “Heck” a Bad Word? Here's Everything You Need to Know
No, it's generally not bad to say heck.
Instead, it's a euphemism (a word or phrase that you might use in place of something more offensive or explicit) for “hell,” which is considered more offensive and is deemed a curse word"
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Looks like a real stamp to me!
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26 Jun 2025
03:27:41pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Would this faked precancel have been usable as postage? Can I mark all over a stamp and then put it in the mail and have it accepted? To me the precancel part of this stamp looks faked. In that case is it useful as postage at the post office?
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Not the same stamp, second zero is very different.
Is the postmark under or over the precancel? Why was a precancel subsequently postmarked? Appreciate it still happens today.
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
26 Jun 2025
04:32:55pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
There's so much of the stamp that is identical that it's very odd. Even the parts that sort of look like postmarks are the same!! Very strange indeed!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Well, glad I could help you again Joe!!!
NOW you really have your number section done!
CONGRATS!!!
-Ari
P.S. For $10 why not?
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
27 Jun 2025
03:55:20pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
You're right, for $10 why not? I need to do some research as well, if possible. If this is not the same stamp pictured in the 1992 Unitrade then it is too close to be a coincidence. If there's more than one then how many are there and what were they used for? Maybe someone in the Perth post office did a whole sheet of them for some company to use. It's possible there is some importance to them but there might be no way to find out. But for only $10 there might be some really interesting stuff going on - probably not, but you never know. And again, without your help I doubt if I would have ever found this odd stamp!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Anytime, my friend!
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04 Jul 2025
03:50:35pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Does anyone out there know if there is a precancel expert who can tell me anything about the Perth stamp in this post? I'm 99% sure it's a fake but it is incredibly close to the stamp shown in the 1992 Unitrade Canada precancel catalogue, too close to be a fluke. The fact that it was recognized by Unitrade for a while is also curious. I emailed Deveney Stamps about Perth precancels and they could not tell me anything. I mounted it with my other numbered precancels whether it's a fake or not but maybe someone out there has more information!! Here's the picture again as a reminder. I wish I knew what the post mark says!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Run it thru ImageSeluth
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
04 Jul 2025
04:25:44pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Sorry, can't, don't want to stress my poor old computer until I finish the book I'm working on! That's also the reason I don't set up a scanner or a new camera, I think I've said this several times before. I've used a magnifier on the stamp and can pick out some letters but they don't seem to make sense. I'll keep trying!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
See scans
Why do you call this Candian a Perth stamp?
Looks like a real stamp to me.
You said " I'm 99% sure it's a fake but it is incredibly close to the stamp shown in the 1992 Unitrade Canada precancel catalogue, too close to be a fluke." Fake or Fluke???
Hope this help you!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
the numerals on the two precancels (from auction and from catalogue) appear different to me, although both also appear to be hand-drawn. The double lines are also not perfectly parallel as they would be in a machine-affixed cancel.
Don't know Canadian precancel rules, but US precancel rules prohibit their use except with permit and by following postal regulations (which usually require minimums, envelopes organized by postal rules, paper work, and fee). There is a US exception (free) that allows individual use but still has requirements.
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04 Jul 2025
05:21:36pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
"Why do you call this Candian a Perth stamp?"
The number is the number of the Perth post office.
"Looks like a real stamp to me."
The stamp is real, the precancel is not.
"You said " I'm 99% sure it's a fake but it is incredibly close to the stamp shown in the 1992 Unitrade Canada precancel catalogue, too close to be a fluke." Fake or Fluke???"
fluke - it is too similar to be a coincidence, IMHO. The numbers are a bit different but the lines are very similar and the unreadable postmarks (?) seem to be the same.
"Hope this help you!"
No offence intended, but not really. I can see exactly what you show by using a strong loop. It still, to me, doesn't make sense!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Take the Imageseluth image I provided, load ImageSeluth, then open the image I provided and then make adjustments to the image until you can see what you need.
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04 Jul 2025
05:42:34pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
"load ImageSeluth"
NO
I will state this for one last time! My computer is old and sensitive but it contains very important files needed for a book I am writing. I will eventually get a new system but I am not ready to do that yet. Believe it or not, I am still using Windows 7 and I need to be careful with what I do. So, no, Imagesluth is not possible for a while!!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Windows 7...
And you are writing a book!
Wow! Whats the book about, if I may ask...
HERE 1899, I have run it on my image slueth.
Truth be told, I DO see a small difference, those mystery words are clearer.
Something about a company?
Maybe it was a private deal with a Perth Company, and they did this just for them?
If so, I deem it a REAL pre-cancel, and it is probably worth $$$$!
Good luck, Joe!
-Ari
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05 Jul 2025
08:39:50am
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Thanks for the help Ari and I hope you're right about the precancel - but I'll probably never know!! I'm part way through a book, and it's real slow work, on the history of baseball in my home province of Queen's County, Nova Scotia, the Liverpool Larrupers!! I've slowed down lately but eventually it will be finished!!
Joe
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
@PhilatelistMag20
I'm glad you have your scanner and now using ImageSeluth on this Candian stamp.
Do you think these could be French words?
Your ImageSeluth image is way better than mine!
1899
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05 Jul 2025
03:56:58pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
The "words" are
EAT RIGHT
FOR HEALTH
a slogan cancel that was used in 9 major cities across the country from 1943-1951 and again from 1953-1955.
IMO, the "precancel" is clearly handwritten -- the open "0", the different 0's and it looks nothing like the illustration of the "4030" Perth pre-cancel in my 1992 Walburn Precancel Catalog. In addition, the horizontal bar of the "4" in the Walburn illustration crosses the vertical bar, which it does not in the illustrated stamps.
Lastly, although new things can be found since 1992, Walburn records this 4030 precancel only on the 1c GREEN Leaf issue, (and specifically, Die II) and not the 1c orange.
Roy
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05 Jul 2025
04:04:59pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Thanks Roy, great information. Could you scan and show the illustration from your 1992 Walburn Precancel Catalog. I like having the stamp but it looks like a real Perth precancel does exist if I can ever find one! Do you mind if I cut and paste your information into a document I keep for stamp information? Thanks very very much for telling me what the words are on the stamp!
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05 Jul 2025
04:23:04pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
To add to the confusion I just bought these on E-Bay! I've bought from this person before and have always been pleased. How would you classify these? I bought them as a bit of a joke but I'm really not sure what to call them!!
INHO if these were on the envelopes themselves they could qualify as legitimate precancels. Putting them on paper stationary makes them pretty useless as precancels. So to me these are a novelty only with no value as precancels. To me they were worth the price as a novelty but if the precancel actually exists I still don't have one! Comments are welcome!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Roy, good research!
Maybe, just the 1c green was recorded, BUT the Orange was doner to, as they had run out of the green stamps.
If this is stupid, sorry!
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07 Jul 2025
04:10:00pm
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
I got in touch with Deveney stamps about the two items shown above. They weren't able to provide much information but they tried to be as helpful as they could. I advice anyone involved with any vintage Canada material to check out their web site, great stuff can be found there!!
Here's a quote and a picture of a page they sent to me.
If any one out there can supply more information please don't be shy!!
"Specific mailers did use precancels on postal stationery cards, that is most likely what these are torn from. There isn’t much info available about them, but we have attached a picture of the section from the Webb stationery catalogue that does list a couple of types."
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05 Aug 2025
11:04:12am
re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
Here's my collection of Canada's numbered precancels. It is complete unless a valid copy of Perth exists, and if it does it would be pricey!! I have the two Perth numbered precancels on stationary as shown two posts above but I'm not sure how to count those. I'm also including my collection of Canada precancels with place names. I'm never, probably, going to finish it because there are 5 rather pricey ones to find!!
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re: Does anyone out there collect Canada numbered precancels?
I am glad to see such an impressive pre-cancel collection Joe!
I am honored to have been able to have contributed to it!!
-Ari
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