Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I know you all have been requesting Higher Value auction lots from SoR sellers.
So, here is an amazing one!
It is a genuine copy of R18b Proprietary Revenue Green. Part Perf!
It catalogs at $1,250 in the 2024 Scott US Specialized Catalog.
It is currently the only item listed on my page, but I will add more soon.
I have just acquired, a large collection of high-quality US revenues.
Most of which I will be posting on SoR as auctions, with good-deal starting bids.
Take a look, and maybe purchase!
Thanks!
-Ari
P.S. If this lot sells, I will post a lot more of my better revenue.
I am feeling it out currently.
-Ari
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@PhilatelistMag20
I looked at your R18b, I'm not an expert at all, but this stamp appear to be a trimmed down R18c!
What do the SOr experts think?
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1899, you think?
It has the according date cancel.
I have 3 others that look a lot less trimmed.
I just picked this one, as it had a nice cancel.
-Ari
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@PhilatelistMag20
What do you make of the mark in the upper right figure "3"?
Your R18b
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Looks like a die cut maybe? Could ad some value, maybe.
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I'm no US Revenue expert...
But I put the picture through an editing program and the bottom (for sure) and top (maybe) look trimmed. I think it's obvious to the eye as well if you just enlarge the scan.
For something of this "value" surely an expertisation certificate would be in order before offering it for sale as represented?
Just food for thought.
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To me, it looks like the bottom has been trimmed. See back of stamp. The hinge has been cut even with the bottom of the stamp. Like others, I am no expert, but.
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04:33:26pm
Don't get frustrated Ari, we have all made mistakes over the years! Cut back stamps can be very very tricky. For example one of the early series of Canada's Queen Victoria stamps, the Small Queens, 1870 - 1889, exist in a state called Jumbos. These are stamps in the series with very large open areas between the stamp design and the perforations. What unscrupulous dealers have done is trim off the perfs and pass the stamps off as very expensive imperforate versions of these stamps. These imperforates do exist but because of the possibility of cut back jumbos they are only priced as pairs. You have to be careful of all imperforates that also exist as regular stamps since cutbacks for most do exist. An imperforate stamp should be bought as a pair or at least with a very large margin around the stamp itself. I am missing US #315, the imperforate Abe Lincoln, and am very leery of singles with small margins! With US revenues part perfed versions are usually worth more than fully perfed versions so you have to really watch out for trimmed stamps!! Good luck and "be careful out there"!!
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I posted this on the thread listed below in error - it fits better here.
re: Why are the items auctioned here so low in value?
Please read the attached excellent thread on identifying both imperf and part perf 1st series revenues. There is a lot of valuable information throughout the article but to summarize a bit:
"While there are others more qualified to respond to this post, let me contribute a few things to look for.
1. Cancellation Date. The true imperf and part perf stamps were delivered to Internal Revenue very early. So dated cancels from 1866 and later are almost certainly altered to imitate the early imperf or part perf varieties.
2. Paper. The early First Issue stamps were printed on thin, almost translucent paper. If the stamp is on a thick, opaque paper, it is a late issue and certainly did not originate as an imperf or part perf stamp.
3. Color. This is an area where one needs experience. Generally speaking the original colors tend to be dull and later much more brilliant (probably a poor choice of words). To gain this experience, assemble a reference collection of each color with dated cancels arranged in chronological order. You will see the changes - they are not subtle. If your stamp's color matches the color from the late 1860's, it is unlikely that you have a genuine unaltered imperf or part perf.
These three considerations will cull out most of the weeds that are being offered on internet auction sites."
Note the date of cancellation on yours is Dec 29, 1865 (can't get much closer to 1866). Is it on thin (almost translucent) or thicker (opaque) paper?) There are other tell tales - pls read the entire article.
This is a part of a thread on stampcommunity.org .
https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp ...
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What I would have liked to have seen is firstly the hinges removed, secondly the major damage on the right side including the crease to middle bottom edge should be described, the stamp is described as "no faults" which is incorrect. (and against Stamporama rules)
The top and bottom edges are not straight cut if a ruler is put up to them.
With high value/priced stamps a good scan, not photo and at maximum size is absolutely necessary.
I feel it is a nice space filler but would not fetch much more than $50 maximum assuming it is a part perf. (edit)
Sorry to be a killjoy.
A cheap scanner costs very little, in fact the local thrift store probably has at least one, doesn't matter if the printer bit is not working (that's the bit that usually breaks down first).
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I've been collecting revenue stamps for 67 years and have maintained what I call "Reference Collection", so here is a trimmed down R18c, see Pick Up Points arrows (PIP).
The color is brighter.
Side note, this is a mint example.
I've had this stamp 35 or more years.
So it must have been done (just my guess) by someone many years ago when revenue stamps were not popular!
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Wow, a lot of info here.
Joe, thank you so much for the encouragement.
I am still figuring out a lot in philately.
Thanks, Webpaper for that good info.
Sheepshanks, I guess I did not notice the fault, and I actually just got a free printer with a good scanner.
It was free because the tray was melted, but it is functional.
I will start using it as soon as I have the time to set it up!
1899, I do agree that a fakes library is vital for a collector to know what he is purchasing.
Thanks everyone, and I have disabled the listing.
Sincerely,
Ari
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@PhilatelistMag20
I have a question about your original posting, you said "It is a genuine copy of R18b Proprietary Revenue Green. Part Perf!".
How did you determine it was genuine?
What tests led you to think it was genuine?
Did someone tell us this? Was it a dealer?
Hope you do not mind me asking?
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08:51:33pm
"What I would have liked to have seen is firstly the hinges removed"
I DO NOT remove hinges any more! What's on the back of stamps doesn't seem that important to me any more! As I get older my patience seems to be going and I don't want to take a chance damaging the stamp by doing something very stupid by rushing a job that should not be rushed. When I am dead and gone and my collection is disposed of I suppose hinge and hinge remnants might tick off a few people. TOO BAD, is my comment to that! As that famous member of the Fantastic Four, Ben Grimm, used to say " 'Nuff said"! We all do things differently, there is no right or wrong way, at least IMHO!
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1889,
I presumed it was genuine to to the high top margin, as well as the 1865 date cancel.
I later learned this is not the case. I appreciate your questions.
Very true, Joe! Nuff said about stamp hinges for sure. I've ruined a few good stamps before trying to remove the hinge.
The hinge and the stamp came off. 
I don't bother with them much any more now.
-Ari
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Hinge remnants are ugly and of potentially questionable chemical composition, but perhaps the biggest problem is that a hinge can hide a thin. Making the buyer remove a hinge remnant shifts the risk of discovering the thin to the person who has theoretically just paid for a stamp without a thin.
My 2d.
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@cjd
Would a thin show up using ImageSleuth 1.2.0?
Just asking!
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02:10:18pm
"Making the buyer remove a hinge remnant shifts the risk of discovering the thin to the person who has theoretically just paid for a stamp without a thin."
I certainly agree with that but my collection is not going to change hands until I am no longer able to move mine. Once it passes into someone else's hands it's up to them to worry about possible problems. Right now I enjoy what I am doing and messing around with the backs of stamps would take some of my fun away! Just my rather odd way of looking at things I guess!
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Hi everyone.
I know you all have been requesting Higher Value auction lots from SoR sellers.
So, here is an amazing one!
It is a genuine copy of R18b Proprietary Revenue Green. Part Perf!
It catalogs at $1,250 in the 2024 Scott US Specialized Catalog.
It is currently the only item listed on my page, but I will add more soon.
I have just acquired, a large collection of high-quality US revenues.
Most of which I will be posting on SoR as auctions, with good-deal starting bids.
Take a look, and maybe purchase!
Thanks!
-Ari
P.S. If this lot sells, I will post a lot more of my better revenue.
I am feeling it out currently.
-Ari
1 Member
likes this post.
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re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
@PhilatelistMag20
I looked at your R18b, I'm not an expert at all, but this stamp appear to be a trimmed down R18c!
What do the SOr experts think?
1 Member
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re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
1899, you think?
It has the according date cancel.
I have 3 others that look a lot less trimmed.
I just picked this one, as it had a nice cancel.
-Ari
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re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
@PhilatelistMag20
What do you make of the mark in the upper right figure "3"?
Your R18b
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re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
Looks like a die cut maybe? Could ad some value, maybe.
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12:21:21pm
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
I'm no US Revenue expert...
But I put the picture through an editing program and the bottom (for sure) and top (maybe) look trimmed. I think it's obvious to the eye as well if you just enlarge the scan.
For something of this "value" surely an expertisation certificate would be in order before offering it for sale as represented?
Just food for thought.
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
To me, it looks like the bottom has been trimmed. See back of stamp. The hinge has been cut even with the bottom of the stamp. Like others, I am no expert, but.
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Mar 2025
04:33:26pm
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
Don't get frustrated Ari, we have all made mistakes over the years! Cut back stamps can be very very tricky. For example one of the early series of Canada's Queen Victoria stamps, the Small Queens, 1870 - 1889, exist in a state called Jumbos. These are stamps in the series with very large open areas between the stamp design and the perforations. What unscrupulous dealers have done is trim off the perfs and pass the stamps off as very expensive imperforate versions of these stamps. These imperforates do exist but because of the possibility of cut back jumbos they are only priced as pairs. You have to be careful of all imperforates that also exist as regular stamps since cutbacks for most do exist. An imperforate stamp should be bought as a pair or at least with a very large margin around the stamp itself. I am missing US #315, the imperforate Abe Lincoln, and am very leery of singles with small margins! With US revenues part perfed versions are usually worth more than fully perfed versions so you have to really watch out for trimmed stamps!! Good luck and "be careful out there"!!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
04:41:29pm
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
I posted this on the thread listed below in error - it fits better here.
re: Why are the items auctioned here so low in value?
Please read the attached excellent thread on identifying both imperf and part perf 1st series revenues. There is a lot of valuable information throughout the article but to summarize a bit:
"While there are others more qualified to respond to this post, let me contribute a few things to look for.
1. Cancellation Date. The true imperf and part perf stamps were delivered to Internal Revenue very early. So dated cancels from 1866 and later are almost certainly altered to imitate the early imperf or part perf varieties.
2. Paper. The early First Issue stamps were printed on thin, almost translucent paper. If the stamp is on a thick, opaque paper, it is a late issue and certainly did not originate as an imperf or part perf stamp.
3. Color. This is an area where one needs experience. Generally speaking the original colors tend to be dull and later much more brilliant (probably a poor choice of words). To gain this experience, assemble a reference collection of each color with dated cancels arranged in chronological order. You will see the changes - they are not subtle. If your stamp's color matches the color from the late 1860's, it is unlikely that you have a genuine unaltered imperf or part perf.
These three considerations will cull out most of the weeds that are being offered on internet auction sites."
Note the date of cancellation on yours is Dec 29, 1865 (can't get much closer to 1866). Is it on thin (almost translucent) or thicker (opaque) paper?) There are other tell tales - pls read the entire article.
This is a part of a thread on stampcommunity.org .
https://www.stampcommunity.org/topic.asp ...
Login to Like
this post
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
What I would have liked to have seen is firstly the hinges removed, secondly the major damage on the right side including the crease to middle bottom edge should be described, the stamp is described as "no faults" which is incorrect. (and against Stamporama rules)
The top and bottom edges are not straight cut if a ruler is put up to them.
With high value/priced stamps a good scan, not photo and at maximum size is absolutely necessary.
I feel it is a nice space filler but would not fetch much more than $50 maximum assuming it is a part perf. (edit)
Sorry to be a killjoy.
A cheap scanner costs very little, in fact the local thrift store probably has at least one, doesn't matter if the printer bit is not working (that's the bit that usually breaks down first).
3 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
I've been collecting revenue stamps for 67 years and have maintained what I call "Reference Collection", so here is a trimmed down R18c, see Pick Up Points arrows (PIP).
The color is brighter.
Side note, this is a mint example.
I've had this stamp 35 or more years.
So it must have been done (just my guess) by someone many years ago when revenue stamps were not popular!
Login to Like
this post
Approvals
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
Wow, a lot of info here.
Joe, thank you so much for the encouragement.
I am still figuring out a lot in philately.
Thanks, Webpaper for that good info.
Sheepshanks, I guess I did not notice the fault, and I actually just got a free printer with a good scanner.
It was free because the tray was melted, but it is functional.
I will start using it as soon as I have the time to set it up!
1899, I do agree that a fakes library is vital for a collector to know what he is purchasing.
Thanks everyone, and I have disabled the listing.
Sincerely,
Ari
Login to Like
this post
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
@PhilatelistMag20
I have a question about your original posting, you said "It is a genuine copy of R18b Proprietary Revenue Green. Part Perf!".
How did you determine it was genuine?
What tests led you to think it was genuine?
Did someone tell us this? Was it a dealer?
Hope you do not mind me asking?
Login to Like
this post
Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
13 Mar 2025
08:51:33pm
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
"What I would have liked to have seen is firstly the hinges removed"
I DO NOT remove hinges any more! What's on the back of stamps doesn't seem that important to me any more! As I get older my patience seems to be going and I don't want to take a chance damaging the stamp by doing something very stupid by rushing a job that should not be rushed. When I am dead and gone and my collection is disposed of I suppose hinge and hinge remnants might tick off a few people. TOO BAD, is my comment to that! As that famous member of the Fantastic Four, Ben Grimm, used to say " 'Nuff said"! We all do things differently, there is no right or wrong way, at least IMHO!
5 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
Approvals
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
1889,
I presumed it was genuine to to the high top margin, as well as the 1865 date cancel.
I later learned this is not the case. I appreciate your questions.
Very true, Joe! Nuff said about stamp hinges for sure. I've ruined a few good stamps before trying to remove the hinge.
The hinge and the stamp came off.
I don't bother with them much any more now.
-Ari
Login to Like
this post
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
Hinge remnants are ugly and of potentially questionable chemical composition, but perhaps the biggest problem is that a hinge can hide a thin. Making the buyer remove a hinge remnant shifts the risk of discovering the thin to the person who has theoretically just paid for a stamp without a thin.
My 2d.
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re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
@cjd
Would a thin show up using ImageSleuth 1.2.0?
Just asking!
Login to Like
this post
Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
15 Mar 2025
02:10:18pm
re: I've posted a Revenue stamp worth $1,250 USD!
"Making the buyer remove a hinge remnant shifts the risk of discovering the thin to the person who has theoretically just paid for a stamp without a thin."
I certainly agree with that but my collection is not going to change hands until I am no longer able to move mine. Once it passes into someone else's hands it's up to them to worry about possible problems. Right now I enjoy what I am doing and messing around with the backs of stamps would take some of my fun away! Just my rather odd way of looking at things I guess!
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