Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
I'm a bit overwhelmed. I've never seen some of these postmarks (letters/numbers in a 'lined football"). What have I got here? Let me know if more detailed photos are needed.
(Oh, and I paid < $40 w/ shipping)
~~JC
Below is what I can make out of what's written - in fountain pen then pencil - at the top of the pages with counts of the stamps per page...
1890-93 2c Washington w/o triangle: 36
1894 2c Washington Carmine Type I wmark USP: 22
1892 2c Washington Carmine Type II wmark USP: 1
1894 2c Washington Carmine Type III town date postmark: 1
Type III not wmarked: 18
2c Washington Carmine Type III wmark USP: 42
Type I light carmine not wmarked: 9
Type I dark carmine not wmarked: 42
1895 2c Carmine Type III not wmarked: 26
1890-93 2c Carmine (illegible): 16
2c Carmine type III wmark USP: 45
2c Carmine typeIII wmark USP: 38
Type I w/o wmark: 7
(no description; triangle Carmine): 9 + 26 + 34
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine): 45 + 45 + 21 + 36 + 23
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine): 2-block x 4, 3-block x 2
(no description; w/ triangle Carmine letter cancel): 18
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine number cancel): 7 + 28 + + 28 + 22 + 23 + 17
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine line/dot cancel): 24
1890-93 2c Carmine A to 3 w/o triangle: 45 + 47 + 27
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Looks like a lot of fun.
Grad your Scott Cat.
Watermark fluid
Magnifier glass
Tongs
Be on the look out for Type 4's.
Also have some ice and glass and bottle of your favorite adult drink.
Let the fun behind
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Dear JC, welcome to the stamp world. It can be a wonderful adventure, lasting a lifetime, with many side roads of discovery.
It seems as if you're working with a specialists batch of stamps, notated to identify specific sub- categories of particular items. A great start to a new collector, although somewhat overwhelming.
You seem to have a built in trading materials supply. Take it slow, and learn as you go. We're all here to learn from, so feel free to reach out as you have already done.
Enjoy,
Dan
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Happy to give out caps on 2s advice!
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You are well on your way to an excellent reference collection that someone has already done most of the work for you. Enjoy and happy hunting for the varieties that were missed once upon a time. You have some work cut out for you. Just take one page at a time.
Jeremy
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06:15:19pm
I remember back in the day when my wife and I were messing around with those stamps figuring out colour shades and watermarks was a big work. She loved that sort of thing, I would not have the patience for it now!!
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01:04:02pm
"letters/numbers in a 'lined football""
I always liked that kind of postmark and used to think they might be fun to collect, maybe one of each letter or number. I have a question about them. If I see a particular letter/number is it unique to a certain postal station or would there be many that are the same but refer to several different towns and stations? Does anyone know what years these were used and is there a list somewhere of where/what they refer to? This also might help JC decide what he can do with them. Good luck by the way and let us know what you decide to do!
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If on the 29 pages of stamps a fountain pen was used, then this is a clue that these pages could have been put together before 1945 (maybe).
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I still use a fountain pen, especially when I write letters and send birthday/anniversary cards.
In albums I either write with pencil or a spirit based ink, never biro style as the oils in the ink leach after time.
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There is a few old goats like you and me that still use the fountain pen!
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On the track of fountain pens - which I also have gotten into in recent years, but that's a whole other rabbit hole - I started considering the handwriting and "iron" ink color along with the extreme yellowing and brittleness of the pages. Since the handwriting went from fountain or dip pen to pencil, but no ballpoint, that leads me to possibly pre-1960's and potentially more toward the 40's and 50's.
I submitted a photo of the pen handwriting to ChatGPT and asked for a date analysis of the "documents" and it gave some interesting points:
* The capital "W" in “Washington” and “Watermarked” is especially telling — this form is characteristic of Palmer Method or early D'Nealian styles, which were commonly taught in schools from the early 1900s through the 1950s–60s.
* The capital letters are especially clear and intentional, while lowercase forms like “r,” “s,” and “t” resemble older penmanship styles.
* The handwriting itself, independent of the content or paper, most likely dates from 1930s to early 1960s, possibly written by someone educated before or during that time.
I've tried to get the stamps off their pages, but the hinges are stuck but good, if only to the stamps. I decided to soak them off rather than damaging the stamp and/or leaving the brown gum residue (hopefully this does not damage anything, that's what I'm trying to avoid). I've only managed to do seven pages thus far. It's a lot to lay out and dry (using a Desert Magic II drying book).
I have an additional question, for those sill reading... some of the pages mention "Cap on right (2)" or "Cap on left (2)". I'm assuming this is referring to the "2s" on the stamps, but I'm not sure what a "Cap" is in this context. Am I looking for a plate or printing difference, or perhaps it's to do with the postmark stamp?
~~JC
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@JC
Caps on two refers to the 2c red stamp with no triangles in the upper right corners.
The "Cap" is a white-spot above the two on the stamp.
There are two versions of this variety.
220a Cap on left 2
220c Cap on both 2s
There is ONE stamp with a cap only on the right two, but that was due to a foreign object on the plate. (Worth $$$)
Enclosed is a nice diagram for your reference! (Courtesy of my buddy Roger Kirby. "The Swedish Tiger Guy")
I hope this helps, and I am very glad you are into learning about this hobby!
P.S. I like ballpoint and cross pens! 
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What caused these cap's?
What is a cross pens?
Is it possible the cap's are progressive in appearance, running from small to large?
In late 1945 the ball point pen started to appear in larger numbers! It wasn't until sometime in the 1950s that I remember ball point pens were common.
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@PhilatelistMag20
Much appreciated! I did a deep dive into the subject and found exactly what you explain.
I perused all the "non-triangle" 2c stamps in this collection and found two 220c in the mix.
I'll probably go back through in greater detail (working on hooking up a webcam with magnification).
~~JC
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Okay, I did a thing... made an eBay purchase of what looked like a couple of albums (TREAT United States Stamp Collecting Album No. 201 (C) 1977 and Minkus All American Stamp album1957 ed.) some glasine envelopes and what looked like a single page filled with 1800's 2c Washingtons. Well, the single page was more than that... 29 pages... 842 stamps!!
I'm a bit overwhelmed. I've never seen some of these postmarks (letters/numbers in a 'lined football"). What have I got here? Let me know if more detailed photos are needed.
(Oh, and I paid < $40 w/ shipping)
~~JC
Below is what I can make out of what's written - in fountain pen then pencil - at the top of the pages with counts of the stamps per page...
1890-93 2c Washington w/o triangle: 36
1894 2c Washington Carmine Type I wmark USP: 22
1892 2c Washington Carmine Type II wmark USP: 1
1894 2c Washington Carmine Type III town date postmark: 1
Type III not wmarked: 18
2c Washington Carmine Type III wmark USP: 42
Type I light carmine not wmarked: 9
Type I dark carmine not wmarked: 42
1895 2c Carmine Type III not wmarked: 26
1890-93 2c Carmine (illegible): 16
2c Carmine type III wmark USP: 45
2c Carmine typeIII wmark USP: 38
Type I w/o wmark: 7
(no description; triangle Carmine): 9 + 26 + 34
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine): 45 + 45 + 21 + 36 + 23
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine): 2-block x 4, 3-block x 2
(no description; w/ triangle Carmine letter cancel): 18
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine number cancel): 7 + 28 + + 28 + 22 + 23 + 17
(no description; w/o triangle Carmine line/dot cancel): 24
1890-93 2c Carmine A to 3 w/o triangle: 45 + 47 + 27
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re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
Looks like a lot of fun.
Grad your Scott Cat.
Watermark fluid
Magnifier glass
Tongs
Be on the look out for Type 4's.
Also have some ice and glass and bottle of your favorite adult drink.
Let the fun behind
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
Dear JC, welcome to the stamp world. It can be a wonderful adventure, lasting a lifetime, with many side roads of discovery.
It seems as if you're working with a specialists batch of stamps, notated to identify specific sub- categories of particular items. A great start to a new collector, although somewhat overwhelming.
You seem to have a built in trading materials supply. Take it slow, and learn as you go. We're all here to learn from, so feel free to reach out as you have already done.
Enjoy,
Dan
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re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
Happy to give out caps on 2s advice!
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04:07:28pm
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
You are well on your way to an excellent reference collection that someone has already done most of the work for you. Enjoy and happy hunting for the varieties that were missed once upon a time. You have some work cut out for you. Just take one page at a time.
Jeremy
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
30 Mar 2025
06:15:19pm
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
I remember back in the day when my wife and I were messing around with those stamps figuring out colour shades and watermarks was a big work. She loved that sort of thing, I would not have the patience for it now!!
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Back when I had a bunch! I think, therefore I am - I think! Descartes, sort of!
03 Apr 2025
01:04:02pm
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
"letters/numbers in a 'lined football""
I always liked that kind of postmark and used to think they might be fun to collect, maybe one of each letter or number. I have a question about them. If I see a particular letter/number is it unique to a certain postal station or would there be many that are the same but refer to several different towns and stations? Does anyone know what years these were used and is there a list somewhere of where/what they refer to? This also might help JC decide what he can do with them. Good luck by the way and let us know what you decide to do!
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
If on the 29 pages of stamps a fountain pen was used, then this is a clue that these pages could have been put together before 1945 (maybe).
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
I still use a fountain pen, especially when I write letters and send birthday/anniversary cards.
In albums I either write with pencil or a spirit based ink, never biro style as the oils in the ink leach after time.
Login to Like
this post
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
There is a few old goats like you and me that still use the fountain pen!
Login to Like
this post
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
On the track of fountain pens - which I also have gotten into in recent years, but that's a whole other rabbit hole - I started considering the handwriting and "iron" ink color along with the extreme yellowing and brittleness of the pages. Since the handwriting went from fountain or dip pen to pencil, but no ballpoint, that leads me to possibly pre-1960's and potentially more toward the 40's and 50's.
I submitted a photo of the pen handwriting to ChatGPT and asked for a date analysis of the "documents" and it gave some interesting points:
* The capital "W" in “Washington” and “Watermarked” is especially telling — this form is characteristic of Palmer Method or early D'Nealian styles, which were commonly taught in schools from the early 1900s through the 1950s–60s.
* The capital letters are especially clear and intentional, while lowercase forms like “r,” “s,” and “t” resemble older penmanship styles.
* The handwriting itself, independent of the content or paper, most likely dates from 1930s to early 1960s, possibly written by someone educated before or during that time.
I've tried to get the stamps off their pages, but the hinges are stuck but good, if only to the stamps. I decided to soak them off rather than damaging the stamp and/or leaving the brown gum residue (hopefully this does not damage anything, that's what I'm trying to avoid). I've only managed to do seven pages thus far. It's a lot to lay out and dry (using a Desert Magic II drying book).
I have an additional question, for those sill reading... some of the pages mention "Cap on right (2)" or "Cap on left (2)". I'm assuming this is referring to the "2s" on the stamps, but I'm not sure what a "Cap" is in this context. Am I looking for a plate or printing difference, or perhaps it's to do with the postmark stamp?
~~JC
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re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
@JC
Caps on two refers to the 2c red stamp with no triangles in the upper right corners.
The "Cap" is a white-spot above the two on the stamp.
There are two versions of this variety.
220a Cap on left 2
220c Cap on both 2s
There is ONE stamp with a cap only on the right two, but that was due to a foreign object on the plate. (Worth $$$)
Enclosed is a nice diagram for your reference! (Courtesy of my buddy Roger Kirby. "The Swedish Tiger Guy")
I hope this helps, and I am very glad you are into learning about this hobby!
P.S. I like ballpoint and cross pens!
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re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
What caused these cap's?
What is a cross pens?
Is it possible the cap's are progressive in appearance, running from small to large?
In late 1945 the ball point pen started to appear in larger numbers! It wasn't until sometime in the 1950s that I remember ball point pens were common.
Login to Like
this post
re: That's a whole lot of stamps!
@PhilatelistMag20
Much appreciated! I did a deep dive into the subject and found exactly what you explain.
I perused all the "non-triangle" 2c stamps in this collection and found two 220c in the mix.
I'll probably go back through in greater detail (working on hooking up a webcam with magnification).
~~JC
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