Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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It might help to scan the reverse side maybe
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Is the cancel over or under the overprint?
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30-11-1923 was the last day of the hyper inflation period. This stamp was issued about two weeks before that day, so that would be consistent. Perhaps it was cancelled to order at the post office, just to get rid off the old stock and / or because someone had a hunch that used copies might become valuable collectibles...
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The vast majority of cancellations of inflation stamps, especially towards the end, are fake.
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To be exact:
the shown stamp was valid for postage till Dec.31st,1923.
However,as it face-value was just 1/2 a Pfennig of the new currency
(Rentenmark),it´s use for postage was hardly any other than philatelic.
The bet is pretty secure,that it is cancelled by favour or fake.
A genuinely cancelled stamp is about one-hundred times more expensive
than a mint one.
So forged cancellations are abound.
The price for used stamps is for stamps only,
what are expertised by infla-Berlin,
or a competent (german) expert.
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thanks to everyone for their comments.
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Some additional research tells me the cancellation is genuine, though probably a favor cancel. I compared this stamp with known fakes. The space between known fakes cancellations and real is different. The wider spacing is genuine. However, on most of the favor cancelled I've identified in my collection, the cancellation is precise. Postal usage is usually 'muddy' and far less carefully applied.
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The ink used for the cancellations I believe had oil in it.
You can see how the paper absorbs this oil and a clear trace appears especially on the back of the stamps.
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Thank you for showing the reverse side, when I go to ID a stamps I always start looking at the reverse side first
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. 
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I don't see any humor in this discussion.
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@1899, reverse side is very important to me too:
-watermark
-paper type
-gum condition
-gum application method
-defects
-expertise inscriptions
This information can distinguish a certain stamp from the normal ones in the series.
I suspect that world collectors are not interested in this information as long as the design matches.
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@gerom
Well what can I say? I've read some replies they don't watermark any more no time for it. One sor member said does not bother with the reverse.
Each member should collect as they feel they should.
I feel checking out the reverse is important just as you do.
In luck in your future collecting!
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For what it's worth, the postmark looks almost too regular to me, in particular the figures of the date which are in a nice row. Usually, they are just a little bit out of line, what with the tolerances of the wheels they are mounted on. Maybe it is just a particularly carefully appled postmark, but if you want to be sure, you'd better have the stamp expertized.
As an aside regarding the postal usefulness, from 26 to 30 November 1923 the stamps were sold and used at four times their face value. That means, this stamp would have paid 20 milliards (billion on the short ladder) paper Mark of postage on the supposed day of postmarking. However, in December 1923 it would indeed only have been the equivalent of 1/2 Rentenpfennig. Considering that a small printed matter would then have cost 3 Rentenpfennig, a postcard 5 Rentenpfennig, six or ten of these (fairly small) stamps would have done the job. That looks still manageable, certainly not worse than the mass frankings of autumn 1923 which we nowadays find so fascinating ...
Martin
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I found a Hamburg cancellation - it is not identified/certified - but this is what the ink used during that period should look like.
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It is 100% fake. Listed in "Falschstempel der Inflation" Almost looks like a steel Cancel, much to clean.
....
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02:44:47pm
Not sure about this one. Can you help?
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re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
It might help to scan the reverse side maybe
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04:57:26pm
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
Is the cancel over or under the overprint?
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Auctions - Approvals
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
30-11-1923 was the last day of the hyper inflation period. This stamp was issued about two weeks before that day, so that would be consistent. Perhaps it was cancelled to order at the post office, just to get rid off the old stock and / or because someone had a hunch that used copies might become valuable collectibles...
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05:53:44pm
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
The vast majority of cancellations of inflation stamps, especially towards the end, are fake.
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05:23:49am
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
To be exact:
the shown stamp was valid for postage till Dec.31st,1923.
However,as it face-value was just 1/2 a Pfennig of the new currency
(Rentenmark),it´s use for postage was hardly any other than philatelic.
The bet is pretty secure,that it is cancelled by favour or fake.
A genuinely cancelled stamp is about one-hundred times more expensive
than a mint one.
So forged cancellations are abound.
The price for used stamps is for stamps only,
what are expertised by infla-Berlin,
or a competent (german) expert.
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04:17:49pm
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
thanks to everyone for their comments.
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08:24:55pm
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
Some additional research tells me the cancellation is genuine, though probably a favor cancel. I compared this stamp with known fakes. The space between known fakes cancellations and real is different. The wider spacing is genuine. However, on most of the favor cancelled I've identified in my collection, the cancellation is precise. Postal usage is usually 'muddy' and far less carefully applied.
Comments?
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01:48:11am
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
The ink used for the cancellations I believe had oil in it.
You can see how the paper absorbs this oil and a clear trace appears especially on the back of the stamps.
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re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
Thank you for showing the reverse side, when I go to ID a stamps I always start looking at the reverse side first
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re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
.
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08:52:56pm
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
I don't see any humor in this discussion.
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01:13:12am
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
@1899, reverse side is very important to me too:
-watermark
-paper type
-gum condition
-gum application method
-defects
-expertise inscriptions
This information can distinguish a certain stamp from the normal ones in the series.
I suspect that world collectors are not interested in this information as long as the design matches.
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
@gerom
Well what can I say? I've read some replies they don't watermark any more no time for it. One sor member said does not bother with the reverse.
Each member should collect as they feel they should.
I feel checking out the reverse is important just as you do.
In luck in your future collecting!
Login to Like
this post
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
For what it's worth, the postmark looks almost too regular to me, in particular the figures of the date which are in a nice row. Usually, they are just a little bit out of line, what with the tolerances of the wheels they are mounted on. Maybe it is just a particularly carefully appled postmark, but if you want to be sure, you'd better have the stamp expertized.
As an aside regarding the postal usefulness, from 26 to 30 November 1923 the stamps were sold and used at four times their face value. That means, this stamp would have paid 20 milliards (billion on the short ladder) paper Mark of postage on the supposed day of postmarking. However, in December 1923 it would indeed only have been the equivalent of 1/2 Rentenpfennig. Considering that a small printed matter would then have cost 3 Rentenpfennig, a postcard 5 Rentenpfennig, six or ten of these (fairly small) stamps would have done the job. That looks still manageable, certainly not worse than the mass frankings of autumn 1923 which we nowadays find so fascinating ...
Martin
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02:31:28am
re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
I found a Hamburg cancellation - it is not identified/certified - but this is what the ink used during that period should look like.
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re: Real of Fake Cancellation?
It is 100% fake. Listed in "Falschstempel der Inflation" Almost looks like a steel Cancel, much to clean.
....
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