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General Philatelic/Gen. Discussion : The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

 

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Greenmouse
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05 Feb 2010
02:23:44pm
Any of you good people who have read the blurb in my auctions will note that I state that it is difficult not to say near impossible to obtain commemorative stamps from local Post Offices.
Today illustrated a point. I had a buyer who asked me specifically "Please put new stamps on my package" I would love to do this on all my postings. Knowing that this may be a fruitless trip I duly went to some of the local Post Offices in the region. Not one commem except in one Post Office the chap had a few Christmas £1.35's which I bought.
Before anyone says that I should order from our Philatelic bureau I should just point out that orders can take up to 10 days before they are despatched then there is the delivery time which with Royal Mail which can take anything from 2 days to 2 years. Postage is free but they charge a handling fee of £1.45 per order then you find out sometime later that they are out of stock.
I stock around £2,000 of mint decimal GB stamps. Unfortunately not all commems. To pay a fee for new issues when a few years ago before the advent of the cursed white label I could buy them from my local Post Office at face value is just too much to take.
Tim2
PS. It's all Tim Aulds fault.

(Message edited by greenmouse on February 05, 2010)
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Gbstamps
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05 Feb 2010
04:25:56pm
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Tim2

Have you noticed that the Philatelic Bureau are now selling on Ebay at face value(plus £1.45 handling charge!!). User ID is 'royalmailstampcollections'.

I have been told(unofficially!) that the small POs don't stock a lot of 'proper' stamps because it makes it easier to 'stock take'(which they have to do every couple of weeks)


Tom Maxwell

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Parkinlot
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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org

05 Feb 2010
06:24:19pm
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

I normally buy my stamps through the USPS Philatelic Bureau but a couple of weeks ago I tried to buy some stamps locally. I was looking for either the TV Memories or the Kelp Forest stamps. I wound up going to 4 post offices and finally found the TV Memories stamps. Even at the PO I bought the stamps I thought it was going to be a waste of time. I asked the clerk if he had any commemoratives. He shook his head and said that all he had was a few Christmas stamps. I almost just walked away but said "No thanks, I'm looking for the TV stamps". He looked at me like I had 2 heads but said "Oh, you want those stamps"? "I have them in the back". So I bought 5 panes. If he knew they had them in the back, why didn't he just tell me that in the begining? Amazing.

I know I spent more than $1 on gas and time and frustration driving around through 4 different towns. Next time I will just pay the $1 to the Stamp Caves and be done with it.

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Harley

06 Feb 2010
12:03:55am
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Looks like Royal Mail is going the same route as USPS with regards local PO supplies.

My local PO and I have a good rapport.If they dont have what I want,they will put it on their next order .And I can save that $1.00 shipping fee.
But some items cannot be ordered at all POs.So I still order from the Cave.

Tim2,I have the same delema with what stamps to use on mail.
I collect coil stamps,and some you cannot buy in small strips,only full rolls of 100,,just to get the one or two plate number strips.That leaves 90 stamps to use up.Times 5 or 6 varieties of that issue. Well,, 450 to 540 extra stamps to use for mailing makes it a hard to really want to buy "other" stamps to satisfy my fellow collectors wants and whims as to what stamp to use on letters sent them.
I do buy the many coms issued,to use for mailing.In an effort to satisfy those who do not collect as I do.
I dont think my fellow collectors realize just how much effort,and extra costs I go through in order to "help" them get the used stamps they need for their collection.Although,it is just part of what I do to further the hobby,and the select group of collectors with whom I am currently engaged .
But still,, with a few hundred dollars(low estimate) worth of stamps sitting here,it is a shame that one needs to buy more stamps to use for mailing letters.
TOM

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Unmaven

06 Feb 2010
11:53:14am
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Yesterday I went to the main post office in New York City to purchase some recent 2010 issues from the Philatelic Window, which has been there forever. I learned that the Philatelic Window is now history, and I had to go to three window clerks to find that some moth-eaten sheets with bent corners of the new Lunar New Year issue were available as well as the Olympic issue. No one even knew what I was talking about when I tried to purchase the Naval Heroes stamps that were issued the day before! This from one of the largest post offices in New York, if not the entire country. The funny thing is they have a fully stocked philatelic window in Providence, Rhode island of all places!
Steve

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

06 Feb 2010
03:18:42pm

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re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Steve,

that IS the largest PO in New York. The philatelic window has been in enforced decline for years. About 4 years ago, management exiled Philatelic Phil, who had serviced that window and its people for many years. They wanted the lines to move faster. They put some very nice, very uninformed women in there, and boy did things go faster, since the women didn't know what to stock nor what it was the customers wanted. I haven't bothered going there for a long time. And i'm not surprised it's closed. There are a few clerks who know what they're doing, including one who often staffs the gift shop, but mostly, you're on your own.

Donna at the RI PO is wonderful; I email her my wants (you can go on their email list for notification of new offerings). They don't charge a fee, unlike the caves, and it's where I go for most things except those that the PO has restricted distribution.

I still think the UPSP is the best thing there is when talking about securely and quickly delivering the mail; if it's something else, it's completely the luck of the draw (my local Red Hook NY post office is wonderful, and any of the 3 regular clerks would put just about any of the NYC clerks to shame for knowledge and effort to please) but, at POs like the JAF GPO in NYC, they really don't give a sheet, we're just a pane.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
Fatherauld

06 Feb 2010
03:39:26pm
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Well, some areas of the world still know how to run a postal system. I just received the stamps from a couple of lots I won from Simon (Privoz) who lives in Odesa in the Ukrain. It only took about 10 day to get from Odesa to Hastings, MN.

Simon included this really cool postcard with the lots that I have to share with you.

Simons image

Thanks Simon.

Regards ... Tim.

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Stampmanjack

APS Life Member

07 Feb 2010
10:15:04pm
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

It isn't over yet, if you read the front page article in the February 15 Linn's, entitled "Postal Service inspector general: "get rid of stamps?" The inspector generl asks; Given the Postal Service's current financial condition, do we really need stamps in more than two denominations, some of which are not cost effective, or are eventually destroyed?"
To start with, it seems to me they wouldn't have to destroy that many if they put them out for sale at the post offices. Even there, I notice that except for out stamp window (which is fantastic), the clerks never offer commem's. If a customer asks for stamps, they are offered the definitive booklets. I have never seen a non philatelic window offer commeoratives in our area.
I can see the U.S. Post Office going to meter strips for everything.
Jack Leiby

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Harley

08 Feb 2010
09:42:36am
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Jack,
wouldnt be so bad,meter strip (PVI)(Postal Vended Indicator) if they would dress them up a bit to look like vanity stamps.
Or better yet,revenue raisers-advertisers on the PVI strip.
Or a series ,like presidents ,different one each month could last 4 years.
An additional click of a mouse could print a variety of selected subjects. Or text feature to quote happy birthday,wish you were here,a smilely,etc.
Of course there would be extra revenue for USPS,a small service fee for special,non regular PVI messages.
And a big saveings on haveing to print a billion stamps that no one wants to buy.
But then we would need to adjust our colecting habits.Not anything new.How many typs of stamps have been discontinued,no longer needed services like special delivery,parcel post,yada yada.
The only problem I see with the expanding use of PVIs is the mint collection.
Can one buy a strip of printed out PVI ,,with out it being stuck on a piece of mail???????????????????????????????
TOM

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Bhsxvet
Members Picture


16 Feb 2010
08:10:43am
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Reading the comments about commemoratives here and in other threads, I have to come to the conclusion that they are produced now by the postal agencies primarily or solely for philatelic use and modern covers using commemoratives should be regarded as such. Is this way off base or not?
Brian

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Harley

16 Feb 2010
09:20:10am
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Brian,
according to USPS,we stamp collectors are in the minority of sustained revenue .In other words,our contribution to their bank account is negligible,of little importance.
So to say their production of commermorative stamps is geared to the philatelic community has to be counter productive to the problem of scarcity of stamps at POs.
Some stamps,various denominations,are auto shipped to POs.The rest have to be "ordered" by the idividual POs.
If the postmaster at your local PO isnt selling a lot of stamps,he/she is not going to oder more than he/she deems neccessary.
If a PO sells 1 million 1st class stamps in a year,why would they want to order,or have auto drop of 100 million stamps?They would have to keep an inventory on those stamps,and as the rate increases,return for destruction.Another extra unnecessary overhead cost.
And do remember,Your PO cant order just one,,the stamps are shipped in trays,pads and boxes of multiples.
My local PO has three customers for coil stamps-2 commercial and one collector(me).She ordered 25 rolls and recieved 100,,minimum order.Which means she has to eventually return those extras at the next rate change.
One may ask,if they arent selling(or pushing) as many coms as in previous years,why do they still print hundreds of millions of each issue. Well that's another story.It entails cost of production and minimum order to keep per-unit cost down.
So basicaly what I'm saying is,it's not USPS or Royal Mail that isnt cooperating,but the individual Local Post Offices.
Push the locals to order the stamps,and if they are totally uncooperative,and give no satisfaction,or are rude,or even act as uneducated dolts,,make a complaint,a report,a letter of dissatisfaction,,to the head honcho at the USPS/Royal Mail.
TOM

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

16 Feb 2010
09:37:10am

Auctions
re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Brian, i'll add a slightly different angle. The Post Office is trying to please multiple, often contrary, constituencies while looking to the bottom line. I don't think they necessarily navigate this well.

I think some stamps, like the prestige booklets and other limited-availablity stamps, must, by necessity, be mailed by collectors. who else orders from the caves? I still see a smattering of commemoratives in my office mail, but the USPS issues 100s in any given year to please all the folks who want to honor this or that guy or cartoon or motor boat manufacturing material. Linn's reports the annual cost, and it's always above $100 and often much more, and this is exclusive of minor varieties and positions. How does one ever hope to see that on the mail when, if the average household is like mine, there's maybe six bills a month, a letter to my folks, and some stamp-related stuff.

I think some of the USPS distribution policies, aimed at making some stamps special, makes them irrelevant or forces people out, especially when they add surcharges, as they routinely do for postal cards and postal stationary and now do for prestige material.

No, collectors are not their primary audience. As Tom correctly contends, we're an insignifcant part; although I've heard my local postmaster contend the opposite (my vote goes to Tom).

No, I don't think one should consider commemoratives automatically coming from collectors (unfortunately, the last three mailings i received from collectors saw 2 forever stamps and a British PVI, so collectors are hardly choking the system with commemorative use, much to my dismay; my mom, on the other hand....).

I do think that in areas like Christmas and Easter seals, the majority of on-cover usage is collector-driven.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link.php?PLJZJP
        

 

Author/Postings
Members Picture
Greenmouse

05 Feb 2010
02:23:44pm

Any of you good people who have read the blurb in my auctions will note that I state that it is difficult not to say near impossible to obtain commemorative stamps from local Post Offices.
Today illustrated a point. I had a buyer who asked me specifically "Please put new stamps on my package" I would love to do this on all my postings. Knowing that this may be a fruitless trip I duly went to some of the local Post Offices in the region. Not one commem except in one Post Office the chap had a few Christmas £1.35's which I bought.
Before anyone says that I should order from our Philatelic bureau I should just point out that orders can take up to 10 days before they are despatched then there is the delivery time which with Royal Mail which can take anything from 2 days to 2 years. Postage is free but they charge a handling fee of £1.45 per order then you find out sometime later that they are out of stock.
I stock around £2,000 of mint decimal GB stamps. Unfortunately not all commems. To pay a fee for new issues when a few years ago before the advent of the cursed white label I could buy them from my local Post Office at face value is just too much to take.
Tim2
PS. It's all Tim Aulds fault.

(Message edited by greenmouse on February 05, 2010)

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Gbstamps

05 Feb 2010
04:25:56pm

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Tim2

Have you noticed that the Philatelic Bureau are now selling on Ebay at face value(plus £1.45 handling charge!!). User ID is 'royalmailstampcollections'.

I have been told(unofficially!) that the small POs don't stock a lot of 'proper' stamps because it makes it easier to 'stock take'(which they have to do every couple of weeks)


Tom Maxwell

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Immediate Past President - West Essex Philatelic Society www.wepsonline.org
05 Feb 2010
06:24:19pm

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

I normally buy my stamps through the USPS Philatelic Bureau but a couple of weeks ago I tried to buy some stamps locally. I was looking for either the TV Memories or the Kelp Forest stamps. I wound up going to 4 post offices and finally found the TV Memories stamps. Even at the PO I bought the stamps I thought it was going to be a waste of time. I asked the clerk if he had any commemoratives. He shook his head and said that all he had was a few Christmas stamps. I almost just walked away but said "No thanks, I'm looking for the TV stamps". He looked at me like I had 2 heads but said "Oh, you want those stamps"? "I have them in the back". So I bought 5 panes. If he knew they had them in the back, why didn't he just tell me that in the begining? Amazing.

I know I spent more than $1 on gas and time and frustration driving around through 4 different towns. Next time I will just pay the $1 to the Stamp Caves and be done with it.

Bob

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"APS - AFDCS - GBCC - USSS - SCC - IPDA"

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Harley

06 Feb 2010
12:03:55am

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Looks like Royal Mail is going the same route as USPS with regards local PO supplies.

My local PO and I have a good rapport.If they dont have what I want,they will put it on their next order .And I can save that $1.00 shipping fee.
But some items cannot be ordered at all POs.So I still order from the Cave.

Tim2,I have the same delema with what stamps to use on mail.
I collect coil stamps,and some you cannot buy in small strips,only full rolls of 100,,just to get the one or two plate number strips.That leaves 90 stamps to use up.Times 5 or 6 varieties of that issue. Well,, 450 to 540 extra stamps to use for mailing makes it a hard to really want to buy "other" stamps to satisfy my fellow collectors wants and whims as to what stamp to use on letters sent them.
I do buy the many coms issued,to use for mailing.In an effort to satisfy those who do not collect as I do.
I dont think my fellow collectors realize just how much effort,and extra costs I go through in order to "help" them get the used stamps they need for their collection.Although,it is just part of what I do to further the hobby,and the select group of collectors with whom I am currently engaged .
But still,, with a few hundred dollars(low estimate) worth of stamps sitting here,it is a shame that one needs to buy more stamps to use for mailing letters.
TOM

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Unmaven

06 Feb 2010
11:53:14am

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Yesterday I went to the main post office in New York City to purchase some recent 2010 issues from the Philatelic Window, which has been there forever. I learned that the Philatelic Window is now history, and I had to go to three window clerks to find that some moth-eaten sheets with bent corners of the new Lunar New Year issue were available as well as the Olympic issue. No one even knew what I was talking about when I tried to purchase the Naval Heroes stamps that were issued the day before! This from one of the largest post offices in New York, if not the entire country. The funny thing is they have a fully stocked philatelic window in Providence, Rhode island of all places!
Steve

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
06 Feb 2010
03:18:42pm

Auctions

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Steve,

that IS the largest PO in New York. The philatelic window has been in enforced decline for years. About 4 years ago, management exiled Philatelic Phil, who had serviced that window and its people for many years. They wanted the lines to move faster. They put some very nice, very uninformed women in there, and boy did things go faster, since the women didn't know what to stock nor what it was the customers wanted. I haven't bothered going there for a long time. And i'm not surprised it's closed. There are a few clerks who know what they're doing, including one who often staffs the gift shop, but mostly, you're on your own.

Donna at the RI PO is wonderful; I email her my wants (you can go on their email list for notification of new offerings). They don't charge a fee, unlike the caves, and it's where I go for most things except those that the PO has restricted distribution.

I still think the UPSP is the best thing there is when talking about securely and quickly delivering the mail; if it's something else, it's completely the luck of the draw (my local Red Hook NY post office is wonderful, and any of the 3 regular clerks would put just about any of the NYC clerks to shame for knowledge and effort to please) but, at POs like the JAF GPO in NYC, they really don't give a sheet, we're just a pane.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
Fatherauld

06 Feb 2010
03:39:26pm

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Well, some areas of the world still know how to run a postal system. I just received the stamps from a couple of lots I won from Simon (Privoz) who lives in Odesa in the Ukrain. It only took about 10 day to get from Odesa to Hastings, MN.

Simon included this really cool postcard with the lots that I have to share with you.

Simons image

Thanks Simon.

Regards ... Tim.

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Stampmanjack

APS Life Member

07 Feb 2010
10:15:04pm

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

It isn't over yet, if you read the front page article in the February 15 Linn's, entitled "Postal Service inspector general: "get rid of stamps?" The inspector generl asks; Given the Postal Service's current financial condition, do we really need stamps in more than two denominations, some of which are not cost effective, or are eventually destroyed?"
To start with, it seems to me they wouldn't have to destroy that many if they put them out for sale at the post offices. Even there, I notice that except for out stamp window (which is fantastic), the clerks never offer commem's. If a customer asks for stamps, they are offered the definitive booklets. I have never seen a non philatelic window offer commeoratives in our area.
I can see the U.S. Post Office going to meter strips for everything.
Jack Leiby

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Harley

08 Feb 2010
09:42:36am

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Jack,
wouldnt be so bad,meter strip (PVI)(Postal Vended Indicator) if they would dress them up a bit to look like vanity stamps.
Or better yet,revenue raisers-advertisers on the PVI strip.
Or a series ,like presidents ,different one each month could last 4 years.
An additional click of a mouse could print a variety of selected subjects. Or text feature to quote happy birthday,wish you were here,a smilely,etc.
Of course there would be extra revenue for USPS,a small service fee for special,non regular PVI messages.
And a big saveings on haveing to print a billion stamps that no one wants to buy.
But then we would need to adjust our colecting habits.Not anything new.How many typs of stamps have been discontinued,no longer needed services like special delivery,parcel post,yada yada.
The only problem I see with the expanding use of PVIs is the mint collection.
Can one buy a strip of printed out PVI ,,with out it being stuck on a piece of mail???????????????????????????????
TOM

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Bhsxvet

16 Feb 2010
08:10:43am

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Reading the comments about commemoratives here and in other threads, I have to come to the conclusion that they are produced now by the postal agencies primarily or solely for philatelic use and modern covers using commemoratives should be regarded as such. Is this way off base or not?
Brian

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this post
Harley

16 Feb 2010
09:20:10am

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Brian,
according to USPS,we stamp collectors are in the minority of sustained revenue .In other words,our contribution to their bank account is negligible,of little importance.
So to say their production of commermorative stamps is geared to the philatelic community has to be counter productive to the problem of scarcity of stamps at POs.
Some stamps,various denominations,are auto shipped to POs.The rest have to be "ordered" by the idividual POs.
If the postmaster at your local PO isnt selling a lot of stamps,he/she is not going to oder more than he/she deems neccessary.
If a PO sells 1 million 1st class stamps in a year,why would they want to order,or have auto drop of 100 million stamps?They would have to keep an inventory on those stamps,and as the rate increases,return for destruction.Another extra unnecessary overhead cost.
And do remember,Your PO cant order just one,,the stamps are shipped in trays,pads and boxes of multiples.
My local PO has three customers for coil stamps-2 commercial and one collector(me).She ordered 25 rolls and recieved 100,,minimum order.Which means she has to eventually return those extras at the next rate change.
One may ask,if they arent selling(or pushing) as many coms as in previous years,why do they still print hundreds of millions of each issue. Well that's another story.It entails cost of production and minimum order to keep per-unit cost down.
So basicaly what I'm saying is,it's not USPS or Royal Mail that isnt cooperating,but the individual Local Post Offices.
Push the locals to order the stamps,and if they are totally uncooperative,and give no satisfaction,or are rude,or even act as uneducated dolts,,make a complaint,a report,a letter of dissatisfaction,,to the head honcho at the USPS/Royal Mail.
TOM

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Members Picture
amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
16 Feb 2010
09:37:10am

Auctions

re: The sad demise of commemoratives in Royal Mail and USPS

Brian, i'll add a slightly different angle. The Post Office is trying to please multiple, often contrary, constituencies while looking to the bottom line. I don't think they necessarily navigate this well.

I think some stamps, like the prestige booklets and other limited-availablity stamps, must, by necessity, be mailed by collectors. who else orders from the caves? I still see a smattering of commemoratives in my office mail, but the USPS issues 100s in any given year to please all the folks who want to honor this or that guy or cartoon or motor boat manufacturing material. Linn's reports the annual cost, and it's always above $100 and often much more, and this is exclusive of minor varieties and positions. How does one ever hope to see that on the mail when, if the average household is like mine, there's maybe six bills a month, a letter to my folks, and some stamp-related stuff.

I think some of the USPS distribution policies, aimed at making some stamps special, makes them irrelevant or forces people out, especially when they add surcharges, as they routinely do for postal cards and postal stationary and now do for prestige material.

No, collectors are not their primary audience. As Tom correctly contends, we're an insignifcant part; although I've heard my local postmaster contend the opposite (my vote goes to Tom).

No, I don't think one should consider commemoratives automatically coming from collectors (unfortunately, the last three mailings i received from collectors saw 2 forever stamps and a British PVI, so collectors are hardly choking the system with commemorative use, much to my dismay; my mom, on the other hand....).

I do think that in areas like Christmas and Easter seals, the majority of on-cover usage is collector-driven.

David

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...
        

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