Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
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Michel-
The bottom line is you decide what is right. This does not only apply to Israel Tabs, but U.S. plate blocks, line pairs, gutter pairs etc. I basically collect Israel and most other countries postally used and am happy with that. If you collect based on what the Bale, Scott or Gibbons catalog says, your approach is all wrong. You should collect what you like and that is that. No person or organization has the right to dictate your interests.
As a point of reference, my wife has an Israel collection mint with and without tabs. If she likes the stamps, she adds them to her collection.
The concept here is to enjoy your hobby, regardless of what you collect. The alone is worth more than any monetary value
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Wonder no more! This entrancing hobby is populated, not in large measure but populated nevertheless, by some people who are blind to the intrinsic attributes of their subject matter and devote their time to "nitpicking" among the minutiae of inconsequential rubbish.
However, "nitpicking" and "inconsequential" and "rubbish" are subjective evaluations. Such nitpickers simply think differently than non-nitpickers. I don't understand why someone would pay a cent for new Canadian stamps unless they wanted to mail a letter, but I have a friend who values them highly even though he knows that the Brooklyn Bridge would be a better investment.
The people who create philatelic catalogues are, or were, collectors who see stamps as investments, and for very experienced, long-time collectors they can be an investment. Catalogues reflect that evaluation. In the case of your Israel tabbed stamps, it's probably not nitpicking that's the cause of the price differences, but rarity. Stamps with high values are generally harder to find than stamps with low values.
I have several catalogues which I use primarily for information about the stamps. Most of the time I could not care less about their value. I collect what I want, and I pay what I can pay or care to pay.
It seems like you have fallen into a trap that many beginning collectors fall into: that's the trap of believing that they must fill every empty space in their album, or complete every set shown in particular catalogue listings. They also believe that stamps are actually worth what they pay for them, forgetting that a lot of labor went into getting the stamps in their hands in the first place. The cost of a stamp equals its wholesale value, which may be only 10% of catalogue value, plus the labor of making it available to you, plus a portion of the cost of operating a stamp business.
You called stamp collecting an "entrancing" hobby. You have that right! Welcome aboard. Collect any darn thing you want, and ignore people who think you're nuts.
Bob
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I don't think that a high catalog value on the tabbed stamps necessarily means that others are trying to dictate what you collect. As Bob points out, the catalog value is a measure of rarity - I would add that the catalog value also reflects collector demand. The reason that tabbed stamps of Israel are worth so much more than their untabbed siblings, is that very few stamps have tabs and many collectors want them. Another way of looking at the valuation situation is not that your untabbed stamps are devalued, but that the tabbed stamps have an extra value.
Some stamp collectors are very selective. They are looking for the best examples they can find and often do not want to buy stamps that fail to meet whatever criteria they have established. Stamps in "perfect" condition can be extremely difficult to come by - especially when collecting older stamps. Most older stamps have an imperfection or two. Perhaps the image is off center, or the stamp was hinged into an album, or careless handling creased a corner. These stamps will sell for considerably less than the value you see listed in the catalog. Alternately, as stamps near perfection the price can exceed those valuations several fold.
Many collectors who are not so focused on perfection happily fill their albums and stock books with stamps purchased at fractions of the listed catalog value. I think the most important consideration with the value of the Israel stamps is whether the price you paid was fair and appropriate considering they do not have tabs. If the stamps were purchased inexpensively, then I don't see a problem. If the stamps were expensive, and were presented as somehow "worth" more than they are, then I could see a problem.
Going forward as a more knowledgeable collector of Israel you now have a choice. You can either accept stamps without tabs enjoying the opportunity to buy more stamps for less money, or you can decide that you want to build a collection complete with tabs for as much as ten times the cost.
Ralph
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Michel,
I believe that others have given you exactly the explanation you seek: catalogue editors determine value based on what they see is the likely price a dealer would sell an excellent example of a particular stamp in a particular condition. Israeli tabs ARE valued by many collectors, while US selvedge of any kind, other than plate blocks, is seldom viewed as anything but scrap. That may change some day, in the same way that the way collecting plate number coils on coil stamps has changed. Who knows. Who cares?
the essence of the response is collect what you like.
But the catalogues only tell a little about the value of any given stamp. In early US, many stamps were issued with one or two straight edges, representing the cut lines between panes in a sheet. Most US collectors view these with disdain, although their relative rarity is far greater than any stamp with perforations all around. For instance, in a sheet of 6 panes of 100 definitives each, there will be a total of 2 stamps of 600 with a straight edge at bottom and left; another 2 with straight edge at bottom and right, and so on. yet, few US collectors would choose them if presented with a similar quality stamp with 4 perforated edges. Why? Collecting habits of today. This may change, more likely it won't. So a much rarer stamp is afforded less value because it's in less demand. The catalogues don't address this, of course, because it's merely one variable among thousands. Others could include SON cancels, cancels for DPOs, etc.
David
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I understand that many European collectors value the type of straight-edged stamps that David mentions, precisely because of their rarity. Perhaps some of our European members can verify that?
There is one problem, however: there are face-identical stamps with the same straight edges, but some may come not from full sheets but from booklet panes, which makes them relatively common: a booklet pane of six stamps will have one stamp with straight edges at the bottom and left side, and one stamp with straigt edges at the bottom and right side. I am not a U.S. specialist, so there may be ways to tell whether particular U.S. stamps are from a sheet or a booklet pane. To the average collector, however, they seem identical.
Bob
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09:21:05pm
As a very new collector generally, and an even more recent devotee of the stamps of Israel, I'm very perturbed to learn of a distinction between "tabbed" and "half-tabbed" stamps. The Bale catalogue apparently states that: "The valuation of half tabbed should be considered about 90% less than tabbed." Some stamps of Israel are "double-tabbed" - they have a descriptive tab below the stamp proper, and then what might be called "selvedge" below the descriptive tab. This selvedge is apparently regarded as part of the "tabbing"; without it the stamp plunges in value. Who decides such things? I'm beginning to wonder if this entrancing hobby is populated in large measure by people who are blind to the intrinsic attributes of their subject matter and devote their time to "nitpicking" among the minutiae of inconsequential rubbish.
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09:50:06pm
re: Who determines what's right - and what's not?
Michel-
The bottom line is you decide what is right. This does not only apply to Israel Tabs, but U.S. plate blocks, line pairs, gutter pairs etc. I basically collect Israel and most other countries postally used and am happy with that. If you collect based on what the Bale, Scott or Gibbons catalog says, your approach is all wrong. You should collect what you like and that is that. No person or organization has the right to dictate your interests.
As a point of reference, my wife has an Israel collection mint with and without tabs. If she likes the stamps, she adds them to her collection.
The concept here is to enjoy your hobby, regardless of what you collect. The alone is worth more than any monetary value
Login to Like
this post
re: Who determines what's right - and what's not?
Wonder no more! This entrancing hobby is populated, not in large measure but populated nevertheless, by some people who are blind to the intrinsic attributes of their subject matter and devote their time to "nitpicking" among the minutiae of inconsequential rubbish.
However, "nitpicking" and "inconsequential" and "rubbish" are subjective evaluations. Such nitpickers simply think differently than non-nitpickers. I don't understand why someone would pay a cent for new Canadian stamps unless they wanted to mail a letter, but I have a friend who values them highly even though he knows that the Brooklyn Bridge would be a better investment.
The people who create philatelic catalogues are, or were, collectors who see stamps as investments, and for very experienced, long-time collectors they can be an investment. Catalogues reflect that evaluation. In the case of your Israel tabbed stamps, it's probably not nitpicking that's the cause of the price differences, but rarity. Stamps with high values are generally harder to find than stamps with low values.
I have several catalogues which I use primarily for information about the stamps. Most of the time I could not care less about their value. I collect what I want, and I pay what I can pay or care to pay.
It seems like you have fallen into a trap that many beginning collectors fall into: that's the trap of believing that they must fill every empty space in their album, or complete every set shown in particular catalogue listings. They also believe that stamps are actually worth what they pay for them, forgetting that a lot of labor went into getting the stamps in their hands in the first place. The cost of a stamp equals its wholesale value, which may be only 10% of catalogue value, plus the labor of making it available to you, plus a portion of the cost of operating a stamp business.
You called stamp collecting an "entrancing" hobby. You have that right! Welcome aboard. Collect any darn thing you want, and ignore people who think you're nuts.
Bob
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this post
re: Who determines what's right - and what's not?
I don't think that a high catalog value on the tabbed stamps necessarily means that others are trying to dictate what you collect. As Bob points out, the catalog value is a measure of rarity - I would add that the catalog value also reflects collector demand. The reason that tabbed stamps of Israel are worth so much more than their untabbed siblings, is that very few stamps have tabs and many collectors want them. Another way of looking at the valuation situation is not that your untabbed stamps are devalued, but that the tabbed stamps have an extra value.
Some stamp collectors are very selective. They are looking for the best examples they can find and often do not want to buy stamps that fail to meet whatever criteria they have established. Stamps in "perfect" condition can be extremely difficult to come by - especially when collecting older stamps. Most older stamps have an imperfection or two. Perhaps the image is off center, or the stamp was hinged into an album, or careless handling creased a corner. These stamps will sell for considerably less than the value you see listed in the catalog. Alternately, as stamps near perfection the price can exceed those valuations several fold.
Many collectors who are not so focused on perfection happily fill their albums and stock books with stamps purchased at fractions of the listed catalog value. I think the most important consideration with the value of the Israel stamps is whether the price you paid was fair and appropriate considering they do not have tabs. If the stamps were purchased inexpensively, then I don't see a problem. If the stamps were expensive, and were presented as somehow "worth" more than they are, then I could see a problem.
Going forward as a more knowledgeable collector of Israel you now have a choice. You can either accept stamps without tabs enjoying the opportunity to buy more stamps for less money, or you can decide that you want to build a collection complete with tabs for as much as ten times the cost.
Ralph
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this post
re: Who determines what's right - and what's not?
Michel,
I believe that others have given you exactly the explanation you seek: catalogue editors determine value based on what they see is the likely price a dealer would sell an excellent example of a particular stamp in a particular condition. Israeli tabs ARE valued by many collectors, while US selvedge of any kind, other than plate blocks, is seldom viewed as anything but scrap. That may change some day, in the same way that the way collecting plate number coils on coil stamps has changed. Who knows. Who cares?
the essence of the response is collect what you like.
But the catalogues only tell a little about the value of any given stamp. In early US, many stamps were issued with one or two straight edges, representing the cut lines between panes in a sheet. Most US collectors view these with disdain, although their relative rarity is far greater than any stamp with perforations all around. For instance, in a sheet of 6 panes of 100 definitives each, there will be a total of 2 stamps of 600 with a straight edge at bottom and left; another 2 with straight edge at bottom and right, and so on. yet, few US collectors would choose them if presented with a similar quality stamp with 4 perforated edges. Why? Collecting habits of today. This may change, more likely it won't. So a much rarer stamp is afforded less value because it's in less demand. The catalogues don't address this, of course, because it's merely one variable among thousands. Others could include SON cancels, cancels for DPOs, etc.
David
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this post
re: Who determines what's right - and what's not?
I understand that many European collectors value the type of straight-edged stamps that David mentions, precisely because of their rarity. Perhaps some of our European members can verify that?
There is one problem, however: there are face-identical stamps with the same straight edges, but some may come not from full sheets but from booklet panes, which makes them relatively common: a booklet pane of six stamps will have one stamp with straight edges at the bottom and left side, and one stamp with straigt edges at the bottom and right side. I am not a U.S. specialist, so there may be ways to tell whether particular U.S. stamps are from a sheet or a booklet pane. To the average collector, however, they seem identical.
Bob
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