Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Or a feedback button on the "WON" screen?
Harvey
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I'm going to throw my two cents in here...
Having come from the modeming world from WAY back (we used terms like 300 baud and 1200 baud), I'm not sure what you mean by feedback here. I'm going to assume that based on this sentence: "Or a feedback button on the "WON" screen?", you are referring feedback like they use on eBay to help rate the sellers. If that is the case, I have mixed emotions on this topic.
From the “negative to that ideaâ€, I personally think of Stamporama as a group of friends who sometime conduct side business through the club. Although we have some very heavy hitters when it comes to selling things in our auction, I still think of them as friends to the club. I don’t know if I feel comfortable with “labeling†them with a feedback system.
On the other side of the coin, it is helpful when dealing with a new person in the auction, either a buyer or especially a seller to see what other think of them.
EXCEPT, you can already get a feel for what people think of them by just looking at their profile. The system keeps track of how much they buy and how much they sell. Someone who has sold a lot of stuff must be a good person to buy from otherwise they would not have sold that many items here. Our auctioneer keeps a good eye on the stuff that goes on in the auction and filters out bad sellers and bad lots when he sees them.
AND, just like on eBay, you as a buyer should do a little research into that seller before buying anything from them. If they are active in the other areas of the system, then I believe I can trust them. And if we can’t trust them, that eventually comes out and they are killed off by the wonderful System Operators (SysOps, there’s another old term from those modem days) here at the club.
Anyway, I guess I’d like to hear more from you on your idea as well. The “why’s†are always helpful in everyone’s better understanding what you are looking for.
---Pat (AKA Lord Viper of Viper’s Pit, my old BBS from way back.)
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i'll side with Pat on this. I don't think feedback would provide much more information than you already have. if they sell or buy here, they pass the test. And, if there is a bad egg, the bad smell won't be noticed until it's already too late.
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Well, I did'nt expect those feedbacks. I feel that I would like to thank the seller for:
Fast shipment
nice stamps
stamps as advertised
And, I want them to know me as a good buyer and fast payer.
I have previously picked one item I won and sent the seller a message to the above. It would be nice to do it for all items at once.
My ratings on all other stamp sites is 100% (except one - but it's a nice story).
Anyone who objects to feedback for items sold can obviously opt out.
Harvey
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Thanks Harvey for clarifying that.
---Pat
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A buyer can provide a compliment or other comment to a seller at the time that they indicate receipt of a shipped item through the form provided in the auction. Personally, I would find a separate "feedback" system to be an appendage I can do without.
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I always try to provide feedback of some sort, usually as just a thank you and to mention that my purchase has arrived safely. I'm always behind in eBay feedback, which seems to me to be just one more task that isn't really necessary and is there by default.
Sellers get feedback every time they receive a payment, and if they aren't receiving enough money for what they are offering, they need to examine their business model. Just the fact that I buy from a seller more than once is a form of feedback, and if I don't buy from them again that can be seen as another form of feedback.
There's also this: Feedback isn't always appreciated. I once received a lot that simply wasn't as described. The stamps were damaged and not very clean. I complained, politely, and didn't even ask for my money back. I just suggested that more complete descriptions and better images would be appreciated. I received an angry response. I was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't the seller's fault, because he was old and his eyesight wasn't good, and he'd be pleased if I never ordered again. I haven't, but the episode left a bad taste in my mouth -- I just don't need angry emails. I have never again offered negative feedback, preferring simply not to order from that seller in the future, and to bid only on well-described lots.
Finally, there's the matter of simplicity, which is one of this web site's great attributes. A feedback system would just add one more level of complexity that is, in my opinion, not necessary.
Bob
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I do have to say that I like the fact that you can leave comments when marking a invoice as paid as well as when you receive the items from that invoice. And I agree, that is a perfect opportunity to thank the seller for everything. And unlike eBay’s feedback system, this one comment per invoice definitely saves time in that you don’t need to leave individual comments on each lot.
---Pat
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I'm with Patrick on this issue.
John Derry
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Hi Harvey,
I hope that you don’t feel that I or anyone else is personally knocking you or your ideas here. As I said before, they truly are interesting ideas that I don’t think have ever been brought up in the forums before, at least while I've been an participating member. And that being said, your ideas have certainly started some good intellectual discussions, which is what the message forums should be about.
I do like Stamporama a lot in regards to that fact that we allow all of our participating members the opportunity to weigh in on ideas like the ones Harvey presented. And for the most part, those weigh ins are very well thought out and presented. And best of all, I like the fact that the crew that maintains this site actually pay attention to what is said in these forums and sometimes utilize the ideas that they are given to better the club.
Another thing that I absolutely love about our “little†club here is the fact that most of its members also like to help out. We love to give suggestions on how you might be able to easily accomplish what you want to do in some other way using what is already here and available to you.
That being said, I’d like to point out another way you can accomplish what you want to do. If your intension is to publicly acknowledge someone so that others know that they are dealing with a stand up person as well, well you found a great place here in our forums. Posting a public thank you in the auction forum is always appreciated by not only the sellers, but other buyers as well. I’ve seen it done on several occasions, and in true discussion forum form, others get to speak their peace about those sellers as well.
And as I said earlier, you never know, the resident web wizard may still make something happen with your ideas.
---Pat
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Dear Harvey,
I'm more interested in what's behind the suggestions you make, rather than to focus on the comments made-all of which are to the point and on the mark.
If you would allow me to make several assumptions here, it would appear that you'd like to strengthen the effectiveness of the club and to improve the auction function. All well and good.
The points being made by the other respondents is that we are not a "club" as such, and not "dealers" per se-we are family. Family members look out for one another, and so it has been from the beginning. You come from a club/business perspective, understood -Consider that you are home now. Welcome to the family.
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
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I never cared for the feedback provision of Ebay. For example, a year or two ago I was looking for Farley's. One individual advertised sheets of 50 with original gum. If you know the history of the Farley sheets, certain original sheets were gummed. When the PO reprinted the Farley sheets for collectors those sheets were not gummed. The PO then offered to apply gum after the fact if the sheet were returned to PO.
Now a sheet that was issued with no-gum and adverised with gum would be a real rarity and desirable. I sent a query to the seller and was assured that the sheets were mint with gum. I placed a high proxy bid and won the lots. When I received them I was disappointed to learn that the sheets were not gummed as issued. I used the negative feedback to say that the items were not as advertised.
This action produced a whirlwind of emails from the seller excusing himself by saying that he was using a template, that I would ruin the sheets if I applied gum, and that I should not have interpreted the original gum description as I had.
The first thing I recognized that the feed back ratings are used as reward on eBay for high volume sellers and any negative was viewed as a serious blot on recipient. It was not used as a corrective feature to improve customer service. The other thing the email exchange provided was that the seller had no idea what he was selling. Even though he offered to refund, I kept the sheets for my collection.
The stamps that I sell here are from the thousands of genuine duplicates that I have acquired in the process of upgrading and improving my collection. I scan at 200-300 dpi and give you my best description. I guarantee any purchase and will refund all costs if you are not satisfied with the item. Formal feedback may have unintended consequences.
Regards
Les
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There are as many people divided on this issue as there are at an election.
To keep the thread going, I offer the following:
E-bay has the worst feedback site - I only post a response in the box and don't answer the 4 other questions. Also, If you buy 1 item, you only have to type one feedback - but, but 100 items, and you would be at the computer hours because they don't let you use one answer for all items.
On the other hand, at bidStart, you only have to post feedback once for as many items that you buy.
Am I allowed to mention other stamp sites here? (kidding)
Harvey
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"but, but 100 items, and you would be at the computer hours because they don't let you use one answer for all items."
I'm going to have to correct you there. As a regular user of eBay, that statement is incorrect. If I've bought numerous items, I can ALWAYS copy my little snipet of "Great seller. Item as described. Quick shipping. Would buy from again." and paste that into every line for every item that I bought without any issues what-so-ever.
I've had days where I cleared out 20 feedback entries in less than 2 minutes with a well placed Copy & Paste.
---Pat
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I'm of a similar opinion: Stamporama is not an auction site first. It's an online community for discussion and support above all else. The auctions are fun (and I get a thrill from seeing multiple bids on whatever I offer); but that's not why SOR is one of my homepages on my browser. It's the chance to talk to others in the hobby and read up on the latest news. If you want feedback, check out the number of lots sold in any member's profile. The fact that we are so intimate here goes a long way to tell you how much good sellers are valued around here. It took me a long time to get up to the number of lots that I've sold; but every minute was a learning experience that was well worth it. The virtual friends I've made around here are olne of a kind.
Andrew
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Andrew's response reminds me of how successful we are in providing a platform to do many things, most important among them being community. To all of us who make this possible, thank you, and thanks especially to those of us who are able to give it voice so eloquently. I'm thankful I have this wonderful little eden.
David
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07:25:50pm
I agree David! This is my little Eden as well and I spend much of my time thanking people who answer my questions and help me learn more about the amazing world of stamps! I instantly felt comfortable and welcome here and it is my second family. Thank you all for making this such a safe, caring and wonderful community!
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10:13:36am
Can there be a feedback button on the left menu?
Or a feedback button on the "WON" screen?
Harvey
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re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
I'm going to throw my two cents in here...
Having come from the modeming world from WAY back (we used terms like 300 baud and 1200 baud), I'm not sure what you mean by feedback here. I'm going to assume that based on this sentence: "Or a feedback button on the "WON" screen?", you are referring feedback like they use on eBay to help rate the sellers. If that is the case, I have mixed emotions on this topic.
From the “negative to that ideaâ€, I personally think of Stamporama as a group of friends who sometime conduct side business through the club. Although we have some very heavy hitters when it comes to selling things in our auction, I still think of them as friends to the club. I don’t know if I feel comfortable with “labeling†them with a feedback system.
On the other side of the coin, it is helpful when dealing with a new person in the auction, either a buyer or especially a seller to see what other think of them.
EXCEPT, you can already get a feel for what people think of them by just looking at their profile. The system keeps track of how much they buy and how much they sell. Someone who has sold a lot of stuff must be a good person to buy from otherwise they would not have sold that many items here. Our auctioneer keeps a good eye on the stuff that goes on in the auction and filters out bad sellers and bad lots when he sees them.
AND, just like on eBay, you as a buyer should do a little research into that seller before buying anything from them. If they are active in the other areas of the system, then I believe I can trust them. And if we can’t trust them, that eventually comes out and they are killed off by the wonderful System Operators (SysOps, there’s another old term from those modem days) here at the club.
Anyway, I guess I’d like to hear more from you on your idea as well. The “why’s†are always helpful in everyone’s better understanding what you are looking for.
---Pat (AKA Lord Viper of Viper’s Pit, my old BBS from way back.)
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re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
i'll side with Pat on this. I don't think feedback would provide much more information than you already have. if they sell or buy here, they pass the test. And, if there is a bad egg, the bad smell won't be noticed until it's already too late.
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10:29:16am
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
Well, I did'nt expect those feedbacks. I feel that I would like to thank the seller for:
Fast shipment
nice stamps
stamps as advertised
And, I want them to know me as a good buyer and fast payer.
I have previously picked one item I won and sent the seller a message to the above. It would be nice to do it for all items at once.
My ratings on all other stamp sites is 100% (except one - but it's a nice story).
Anyone who objects to feedback for items sold can obviously opt out.
Harvey
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re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
Thanks Harvey for clarifying that.
---Pat
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12:37:51pm
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
A buyer can provide a compliment or other comment to a seller at the time that they indicate receipt of a shipped item through the form provided in the auction. Personally, I would find a separate "feedback" system to be an appendage I can do without.
Login to Like
this post
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
I always try to provide feedback of some sort, usually as just a thank you and to mention that my purchase has arrived safely. I'm always behind in eBay feedback, which seems to me to be just one more task that isn't really necessary and is there by default.
Sellers get feedback every time they receive a payment, and if they aren't receiving enough money for what they are offering, they need to examine their business model. Just the fact that I buy from a seller more than once is a form of feedback, and if I don't buy from them again that can be seen as another form of feedback.
There's also this: Feedback isn't always appreciated. I once received a lot that simply wasn't as described. The stamps were damaged and not very clean. I complained, politely, and didn't even ask for my money back. I just suggested that more complete descriptions and better images would be appreciated. I received an angry response. I was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't the seller's fault, because he was old and his eyesight wasn't good, and he'd be pleased if I never ordered again. I haven't, but the episode left a bad taste in my mouth -- I just don't need angry emails. I have never again offered negative feedback, preferring simply not to order from that seller in the future, and to bid only on well-described lots.
Finally, there's the matter of simplicity, which is one of this web site's great attributes. A feedback system would just add one more level of complexity that is, in my opinion, not necessary.
Bob
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this post
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
I do have to say that I like the fact that you can leave comments when marking a invoice as paid as well as when you receive the items from that invoice. And I agree, that is a perfect opportunity to thank the seller for everything. And unlike eBay’s feedback system, this one comment per invoice definitely saves time in that you don’t need to leave individual comments on each lot.
---Pat
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
19 Mar 2012
06:13:35pm
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
I'm with Patrick on this issue.
John Derry
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re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
Hi Harvey,
I hope that you don’t feel that I or anyone else is personally knocking you or your ideas here. As I said before, they truly are interesting ideas that I don’t think have ever been brought up in the forums before, at least while I've been an participating member. And that being said, your ideas have certainly started some good intellectual discussions, which is what the message forums should be about.
I do like Stamporama a lot in regards to that fact that we allow all of our participating members the opportunity to weigh in on ideas like the ones Harvey presented. And for the most part, those weigh ins are very well thought out and presented. And best of all, I like the fact that the crew that maintains this site actually pay attention to what is said in these forums and sometimes utilize the ideas that they are given to better the club.
Another thing that I absolutely love about our “little†club here is the fact that most of its members also like to help out. We love to give suggestions on how you might be able to easily accomplish what you want to do in some other way using what is already here and available to you.
That being said, I’d like to point out another way you can accomplish what you want to do. If your intension is to publicly acknowledge someone so that others know that they are dealing with a stand up person as well, well you found a great place here in our forums. Posting a public thank you in the auction forum is always appreciated by not only the sellers, but other buyers as well. I’ve seen it done on several occasions, and in true discussion forum form, others get to speak their peace about those sellers as well.
And as I said earlier, you never know, the resident web wizard may still make something happen with your ideas.
---Pat
Login to Like
this post
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
Dear Harvey,
I'm more interested in what's behind the suggestions you make, rather than to focus on the comments made-all of which are to the point and on the mark.
If you would allow me to make several assumptions here, it would appear that you'd like to strengthen the effectiveness of the club and to improve the auction function. All well and good.
The points being made by the other respondents is that we are not a "club" as such, and not "dealers" per se-we are family. Family members look out for one another, and so it has been from the beginning. You come from a club/business perspective, understood -Consider that you are home now. Welcome to the family.
All good thoughts,
Dan C.
Login to Like
this post
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
I never cared for the feedback provision of Ebay. For example, a year or two ago I was looking for Farley's. One individual advertised sheets of 50 with original gum. If you know the history of the Farley sheets, certain original sheets were gummed. When the PO reprinted the Farley sheets for collectors those sheets were not gummed. The PO then offered to apply gum after the fact if the sheet were returned to PO.
Now a sheet that was issued with no-gum and adverised with gum would be a real rarity and desirable. I sent a query to the seller and was assured that the sheets were mint with gum. I placed a high proxy bid and won the lots. When I received them I was disappointed to learn that the sheets were not gummed as issued. I used the negative feedback to say that the items were not as advertised.
This action produced a whirlwind of emails from the seller excusing himself by saying that he was using a template, that I would ruin the sheets if I applied gum, and that I should not have interpreted the original gum description as I had.
The first thing I recognized that the feed back ratings are used as reward on eBay for high volume sellers and any negative was viewed as a serious blot on recipient. It was not used as a corrective feature to improve customer service. The other thing the email exchange provided was that the seller had no idea what he was selling. Even though he offered to refund, I kept the sheets for my collection.
The stamps that I sell here are from the thousands of genuine duplicates that I have acquired in the process of upgrading and improving my collection. I scan at 200-300 dpi and give you my best description. I guarantee any purchase and will refund all costs if you are not satisfied with the item. Formal feedback may have unintended consequences.
Regards
Les
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11:25:42am
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
There are as many people divided on this issue as there are at an election.
To keep the thread going, I offer the following:
E-bay has the worst feedback site - I only post a response in the box and don't answer the 4 other questions. Also, If you buy 1 item, you only have to type one feedback - but, but 100 items, and you would be at the computer hours because they don't let you use one answer for all items.
On the other hand, at bidStart, you only have to post feedback once for as many items that you buy.
Am I allowed to mention other stamp sites here? (kidding)
Harvey
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re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
"but, but 100 items, and you would be at the computer hours because they don't let you use one answer for all items."
I'm going to have to correct you there. As a regular user of eBay, that statement is incorrect. If I've bought numerous items, I can ALWAYS copy my little snipet of "Great seller. Item as described. Quick shipping. Would buy from again." and paste that into every line for every item that I bought without any issues what-so-ever.
I've had days where I cleared out 20 feedback entries in less than 2 minutes with a well placed Copy & Paste.
---Pat
Login to Like
this post
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
I'm of a similar opinion: Stamporama is not an auction site first. It's an online community for discussion and support above all else. The auctions are fun (and I get a thrill from seeing multiple bids on whatever I offer); but that's not why SOR is one of my homepages on my browser. It's the chance to talk to others in the hobby and read up on the latest news. If you want feedback, check out the number of lots sold in any member's profile. The fact that we are so intimate here goes a long way to tell you how much good sellers are valued around here. It took me a long time to get up to the number of lots that I've sold; but every minute was a learning experience that was well worth it. The virtual friends I've made around here are olne of a kind.
Andrew
Login to Like
this post
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
Andrew's response reminds me of how successful we are in providing a platform to do many things, most important among them being community. To all of us who make this possible, thank you, and thanks especially to those of us who are able to give it voice so eloquently. I'm thankful I have this wonderful little eden.
David
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
31 Mar 2012
07:25:50pm
re: Discussion of Why We Don\\\'t Use Feedback in our Auction Ratings
I agree David! This is my little Eden as well and I spend much of my time thanking people who answer my questions and help me learn more about the amazing world of stamps! I instantly felt comfortable and welcome here and it is my second family. Thank you all for making this such a safe, caring and wonderful community!
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