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General Philatelic/Supplies, Literature & Software : Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

 

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saleem
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30 Apr 2013
12:07:45am
My question is about the Scott numbering system especially for US issues - of late I'm watching US se-tenant blocks, strips, etc offered at eBay with a capital suffix. Here is an example: US Sc. #2101a is the block of 4 of 20¢ Dogs stamps - it is being listed as Sc. #2101A.
If this is a major numbering policy change by Scott then I'm not aware of it - can anyone please confirm from their more recent US Specialized catalogs if they have mentioned this at the beginning of the catalog.

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khj
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30 Apr 2013
12:14:51am
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

There has been no change in the numbering system.

Somebody either accidentally left their caps lock on, or they didn't realize the significance between having an "A" rather than "a".

It happens more often than it should.

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saleem
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30 Apr 2013
01:05:48am
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Appreciate such a quick reply - you have taken a lot off of my mind, was worried that somehow I'm left stranded Confused.
There are more than a few dealers putting caps on when listing minor catalog numbers and this caused confusion.

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lisagrant87
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis

30 Apr 2013
05:42:14pm
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

This is a newbie question. I've only been collecting for a little over a year. K mentioned that there is significance in a capital A. I've never seen a capital before. What's the significance?

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khj
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30 Apr 2013
05:53:57pm
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

The capitalization of any letter suffixes in the Scott catalog is usually considered significant. If small letter suffix, then it is considered a minor catalog number. If a capital letter, then it is considered a major catalog number.

The advantage of a major catalog number listing is that the listing gets it's own new line (same indent level, same font size/style...), whereas the minor catalog numbers are usually either further indented and/or smaller font size/style.

If we ignore setenants, a major catalog number usually elevates a stamp's status, and the stamp will get it's own space even in the basic albums. Minor catalog number stamps will usually only have spaces in the specialty albums.

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khj
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30 Apr 2013
05:56:26pm
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

For a simple example of a major catalog number with suffix that is relatively cheap or extremely expensive, see the US 15c John Paul Jones stamps, Scott #1789, 1789A, and 1789B.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

04 May 2013
12:35:53am
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Just to elaborate a bit more, Scott apparently considers a perforation or die cut variation of 0.5 or more to be a major difference worthy of a major catalog number and less than that to be a minor catalog number. That's why we have:

1580 - perf 11.2
1580c - perf 10.9
1580B - perf 10.5x11.3

Notice that 1580c is a minor and 1580B is a major.
I know, it's pretty arbitrary.

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michael78651

04 May 2013
03:21:54am
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

The use of capital letters in the Scott numbering system goes beyond those factors. It is used to add a stamp to an existing set, add a new listing between other stamps that are not related, or for souvenir/mini sheet.

Take German Democratic Republic O37-O43. This is a set of 8, where seven stamps were issued from 1957-1958. The set was closed, and then Scott listed the 1957 set O44-O45. Then, in1960, a new stamp was issued that Scott placed with the O37-O43 set. Scott resists changing numbers of existing listings whenever possible, so it assigned the new stamp number O42A.

A definitive set in Berlin, 9N359-9N376 shows many stamps added to the closed set. Five of them have capitalized letter suffixes.

Check out Paraguay for how Scott handled adding previously unlisted stamps from the 1960s and 1970s into the general listings without doing a major overhaul of the numbering for the entire country.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

04 May 2013
12:49:15pm
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

".... The use of capital letters in the Scott numbering system goes beyond those factors. It is used to add a stamp to an existing set, add a new listing between other stamps that are not related, or for souvenir/mini sheet. .... "

Which also explains why after getting all tangled up with the ever increasing Machin series, Scott had to get Richard Muller to redo the section devoted to the series and separate them out, giving them a capital letter prefix; "MH".

I haven't looked at Scott's Machin numbers for years but I would not be surprised if the sequence was all bollixed up by now.

Charlie

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michael78651

04 May 2013
01:02:18pm
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Actually it's not all messed up like you might expect. There have been major and minor numbers added, and they have provided a somewhat decent identifier with the listings. The numbering is arranged by the face value of the stamp, whether it is decimal currency or not, regular perf or syncopated, etc. They are grouping them in a somewhat logical method. I just don't like them doing it that way.

The pre-decimal issues could have been left where they are. There is only one set. The Victoria/Elizabeth issue could have been left alone as it is only one set. The regional issues could have been left as they were too since there aren't that many of them. Just gets too much with a catalog number of NMDIGHDBSGATEGFHSHJDBXZGAHGD3, and there are only four stamps in the set.

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

04 May 2013
03:10:19pm
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

If I get to the local stamp club next week I will try to remember to check them out in the dealer's set.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
stampmanjack

APS Life Member

13 Jun 2013
12:04:46am
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

I have had to watch tis as quite often, I have bought lots and the seller while selling 13a, lists it as 13A. Sometimes both exist which can then be confusing. I have seen dealers listing 13a as 13A and 13A as 13a. One has to be careful.
The Machin ads confuse me to no end. Linns published a conversion guide when they converted to the MH designation which I lost and so my earlier ones are still in the collection with the regular numbers. If anyone has a copy of that guide I would appreciate a copy. I keep meaning to contact Linns but keep forgetting. Whenever I go to work on Machin Heads, I realize I don't have the guide so I put it aside and forget to try to get the guide and it then becomes a never ending process.
Jack

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CapeStampMan
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Mike

13 Jun 2013
09:38:52pm
re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Jack,

I just sent you an email about this list.

Mike

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saleem

30 Apr 2013
12:07:45am

My question is about the Scott numbering system especially for US issues - of late I'm watching US se-tenant blocks, strips, etc offered at eBay with a capital suffix. Here is an example: US Sc. #2101a is the block of 4 of 20¢ Dogs stamps - it is being listed as Sc. #2101A.
If this is a major numbering policy change by Scott then I'm not aware of it - can anyone please confirm from their more recent US Specialized catalogs if they have mentioned this at the beginning of the catalog.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."
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khj

30 Apr 2013
12:14:51am

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

There has been no change in the numbering system.

Somebody either accidentally left their caps lock on, or they didn't realize the significance between having an "A" rather than "a".

It happens more often than it should.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
saleem

30 Apr 2013
01:05:48am

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Appreciate such a quick reply - you have taken a lot off of my mind, was worried that somehow I'm left stranded Confused.
There are more than a few dealers putting caps on when listing minor catalog numbers and this caused confusion.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Experience is the name you give to the mistakes you made yesterday."

It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
30 Apr 2013
05:42:14pm

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

This is a newbie question. I've only been collecting for a little over a year. K mentioned that there is significance in a capital A. I've never seen a capital before. What's the significance?

Like
Login to Like
this post

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. - Maya Angelou"

lisaslunacy.com
Members Picture
khj

30 Apr 2013
05:53:57pm

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

The capitalization of any letter suffixes in the Scott catalog is usually considered significant. If small letter suffix, then it is considered a minor catalog number. If a capital letter, then it is considered a major catalog number.

The advantage of a major catalog number listing is that the listing gets it's own new line (same indent level, same font size/style...), whereas the minor catalog numbers are usually either further indented and/or smaller font size/style.

If we ignore setenants, a major catalog number usually elevates a stamp's status, and the stamp will get it's own space even in the basic albums. Minor catalog number stamps will usually only have spaces in the specialty albums.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
khj

30 Apr 2013
05:56:26pm

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

For a simple example of a major catalog number with suffix that is relatively cheap or extremely expensive, see the US 15c John Paul Jones stamps, Scott #1789, 1789A, and 1789B.

Like
Login to Like
this post
Members Picture
larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
04 May 2013
12:35:53am

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Just to elaborate a bit more, Scott apparently considers a perforation or die cut variation of 0.5 or more to be a major difference worthy of a major catalog number and less than that to be a minor catalog number. That's why we have:

1580 - perf 11.2
1580c - perf 10.9
1580B - perf 10.5x11.3

Notice that 1580c is a minor and 1580B is a major.
I know, it's pretty arbitrary.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

stamps.colp.info
michael78651

04 May 2013
03:21:54am

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

The use of capital letters in the Scott numbering system goes beyond those factors. It is used to add a stamp to an existing set, add a new listing between other stamps that are not related, or for souvenir/mini sheet.

Take German Democratic Republic O37-O43. This is a set of 8, where seven stamps were issued from 1957-1958. The set was closed, and then Scott listed the 1957 set O44-O45. Then, in1960, a new stamp was issued that Scott placed with the O37-O43 set. Scott resists changing numbers of existing listings whenever possible, so it assigned the new stamp number O42A.

A definitive set in Berlin, 9N359-9N376 shows many stamps added to the closed set. Five of them have capitalized letter suffixes.

Check out Paraguay for how Scott handled adding previously unlisted stamps from the 1960s and 1970s into the general listings without doing a major overhaul of the numbering for the entire country.

Like
Login to Like
this post

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 May 2013
12:49:15pm

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

".... The use of capital letters in the Scott numbering system goes beyond those factors. It is used to add a stamp to an existing set, add a new listing between other stamps that are not related, or for souvenir/mini sheet. .... "

Which also explains why after getting all tangled up with the ever increasing Machin series, Scott had to get Richard Muller to redo the section devoted to the series and separate them out, giving them a capital letter prefix; "MH".

I haven't looked at Scott's Machin numbers for years but I would not be surprised if the sequence was all bollixed up by now.

Charlie

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
michael78651

04 May 2013
01:02:18pm

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Actually it's not all messed up like you might expect. There have been major and minor numbers added, and they have provided a somewhat decent identifier with the listings. The numbering is arranged by the face value of the stamp, whether it is decimal currency or not, regular perf or syncopated, etc. They are grouping them in a somewhat logical method. I just don't like them doing it that way.

The pre-decimal issues could have been left where they are. There is only one set. The Victoria/Elizabeth issue could have been left alone as it is only one set. The regional issues could have been left as they were too since there aren't that many of them. Just gets too much with a catalog number of NMDIGHDBSGATEGFHSHJDBXZGAHGD3, and there are only four stamps in the set.

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likes this post.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
04 May 2013
03:10:19pm

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

If I get to the local stamp club next week I will try to remember to check them out in the dealer's set.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
stampmanjack

APS Life Member

13 Jun 2013
12:04:46am

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

I have had to watch tis as quite often, I have bought lots and the seller while selling 13a, lists it as 13A. Sometimes both exist which can then be confusing. I have seen dealers listing 13a as 13A and 13A as 13a. One has to be careful.
The Machin ads confuse me to no end. Linns published a conversion guide when they converted to the MH designation which I lost and so my earlier ones are still in the collection with the regular numbers. If anyone has a copy of that guide I would appreciate a copy. I keep meaning to contact Linns but keep forgetting. Whenever I go to work on Machin Heads, I realize I don't have the guide so I put it aside and forget to try to get the guide and it then becomes a never ending process.
Jack

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CapeStampMan

Mike
13 Jun 2013
09:38:52pm

re: Scott US Specialized Catalog Numbering System

Jack,

I just sent you an email about this list.

Mike

Like
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"It's been 7 years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
        

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