Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
He was stationed at High Wycombe U.K. for 18 mos. He was in the Photographic Wing.One of his duties was, to photograph V-Mail forms so that they could be reduced,then shipped back home to the U.S.
Unused full size V-Mail forms are common. The reduced copies on photographic paper are also common. The full sized ones that are used are quite scarce as most of them were reduced then destroyed. Ted.
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Ted,
Interesting back story. Thanks for sharing. Here is one of these used V-Mail forms that traveled through the regular mail instead of being photographed and destroyed. I am showing five views. The back of the form is particularly interesting, because only the front was photographed and those that have seen only the photographed and shrunk V-Mail messages probably have never seen the instructions printed on the back. I am not reducing size, so that you get an idea of the dimension of the original sheet. The U.S. Government Printing Office form number is "1943 16-28143-5" (bottom right of sheet).
Front, folded:
Back, folded:
Front, unfolded:
Back unfolded:
The red bars on the back make for a V-shaped design when folding the sheet:
The letter is postmarked 4BPO, Oct, 23, 1944, the 4th Base Post Office located in the Philippine Islands at the time. Interesting is the first paragraph of the instructions on the back which states that V-Mail messages will be dispatched by the most expeditious means if photographing service is not available to a certain destination. Well, V-Mail service certainly was available stateside, the letter is addressed to North Carolina. So, why did this sheet not get processed but went through the regular mail stream instead?
If you take a closer look you will see on the front, below the address, and also on the unfolded sheet in the address field at top a faint hand stamp "NOT SUITABLE FOR FILMING." Why this particular letter was not considered suitable for filming, I don't know. But some postal clerk, in a similar position as Ted's Dad must have made that determination at the time, so that I can present you this example now.
Arno
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Arno - thanks for posting all the views of the letter. Never seen one before. Very interesting. A picture really is worth a thousand words sometimes.... Sally
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11:50:15am
Arno,
This is really interesting. Thank you for posting!
Lisa
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Yes, thank you for the Scans. I don't know who made the decision to not photograph it or why they didn't. My Dad was not part, of the Army Post Office, just the photographic unit. Therefore I would imagine that the decision was made before he received the forms to reduce.
Sure is interesting reading those old letters. Many of the WW2 Vet's are gone now.They sure were a great Generation. Ted.
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I think I might have solved the mystery. In the script it reads "The mail main is certainly doing us dirt. I haven't heard for two or three days. Not your fault, of course."
Payback from the "mail man" perhaps? 
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Lars,
That was a good catch about the mailman. The fellows writing was hard to read with that back slant he had. I also like your tag line about the elephant. Sounds exactly like good old Groucho Marx!
Arno,
Aren't you glad it went snail mail, so that you would be able to add it to your collection?
Thanks for sharing that with us.
Mike
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Mike, you are correct about Groucho Marx. I've been making adjustments to my profile to get my posts to look right and the attribution got knocked off the quote. I think I have it back now. Courtesy of Animal Crackers!
(I also like when Capt. Spaulding says they had a tough time removing the tusks, but it would have been easier in Alabama because the "tusks are loosa"). Priceless!
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@ Mike
Yes. I am certainly happy to have a few of these. However, I actually collect the APO cancels. So, to me, there is not really additional value attached to having the cancel on a regular cover or on an V-Mail form. I have not specifically sought these out for being V-Mail forms. They just happen to be in my regular APO collection. Actually, I find V-Mail "annoying" from a postmark collecting perspective in that the ubiquitous regular V-Mail covers really do not leave much to collect.
Here is another form, mailed from APO 524, Casablanca, Morocco, June 29, 1944. The U.S. Government printing Office form number on this one, printed in the bottom right corner, is 1943 16-28143-4. The first V-Mail form had the form number 1943 16-28143-5. I edited the latter info into the earlier post. The forms show very distinct differences, most notably in the instructions. I am sure someone must have researched and cataloged the various forms. I am again showing the full set of views.
Front, folded:
Back, folded:
Front, unfolded:
Back, unfolded:
Partially folded back:
This time, the reason why the form was not photographed and destroyed, but traveled regular mail, is not apparent.
Arno
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I just love the message. This guy is a real character!
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Rhinelander: I kept a few of my Dad's letters to my Mom. His APO was: 641. Ted.
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I would appreciate some insight on a recent antique store find of mine that is related to the recent SOR V-Mail topic.
Last weekend, I found 9 original, completely filled-in V-Mail lettersheets in an antique store. They were sent by Mrs. Ivy Underwood, Villa Rica, Ga to:
Lt. T.I Underwood 0-291392
438 Bomber Sq. 319 Bomb Grp
APO 520 c/o Postmaster
New York, N.Y.
Since the V-Mails were not being sent by a member of the armed forces (but rather being sent TO a member of the armed forces), "free" was not allowed and all 9 sheets have either a cancelled 3-cent Victory stamp (the domestic rate at the time) or a cancelled 6-cent airmail Scott C-25 stamp (the air mail rate.)
However, the March, 1943 postmarks on all 9 sheets are either Villa Rica, Ga or Atlanta, Ga, not an APO postmark.
Additionally, none of the sheets has an "examiner / censor" rubber stamp marking.
So, it seems to me that these V-Mails were never processed as V-Mail, i.e., they were never examined, microfilmed, etc. Instead, they were processed through the regular mail.
Why?
Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.
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Steve,
If you can get your hands on a scanner, I would certainly be interested to see an image of the front and back of an unfolded sheet. Absent a picture, which could enable more specific information, you are looking at some V-Mail sheets that traveled in the opposite direction, home to front as opposed to the two sheets shown here, which were posted by servicemen stationed abroad to family back home in the U.S. This explains half of your questions.
The V-Mail sheets did not receive APO postmarks, because they were posted by Ms. Underwood at the local post office in Atlanta to her husband currently serving in Algeria (that is where APO 520 was located in March 1943). For the same reason, there are no censor markings, because there was no censorship of mail posted to service members. And, of course, the mail has stamps, because the wife, not serving in the military, did not have free franking privileges.
Usually, V-Mail was supposed to get microfilmed to cut back on air tonnage. However, this requires that the film, once it arrived overseas, can be processed, messages printed out, and delivered. Because you have a run of several V-Mail air sheets to the same address over a certain time range, I must assume that there was no individual issue that rendered all of these "non-processable.' Instead, I surmise that there was no equipment at hand at the receiving end in Algeria that could handle V-Mail at the time. Accordingly, the mail was transmitted the regular way (see instructions printed on the sheets).
Arno
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Arno.
Thanks very much for the explanation. Makes perfect sense. It seems that Mrs. Underwood was unaware that using V-Mail sheets was not necessary since Algeria didn't have V-Mail equipment!
Here are images of the front and back of one of the V-Mail sheets Mrs. Underwood used.
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Interesting. I thought that perhaps the forms for V-Mail used domestically would look different from the forms distributed to servicemen, but it really does not look that different. For instance, thre is a spot for the censor stamp at the top of the sheet. It is a slightly different form again, however. One difference that I noticed is the wording "After ___ Days Return To:" on top of the return address. Just for future reference, perhaps you can post the form number given on the sheet. I am pretty sure a catalog must exist for this area and some of the forms could be scarcer thn others. Overall a lot less mail survived mailed to service members than mailed from service members during the war. While all letters received by spouses, parents, sibilings and girl friends were cherrished and preserved, mail reveceived by the soldier usually was not kept due to the conditions of the war. This is why WWII soldier's mail for the most part is plentiful yet today.
Arno
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11:15:07pm
My late father was a WW2 vet. He was in the Army Air Corps & part of the 8th Air Force.
He was stationed at High Wycombe U.K. for 18 mos. He was in the Photographic Wing.One of his duties was, to photograph V-Mail forms so that they could be reduced,then shipped back home to the U.S.
Unused full size V-Mail forms are common. The reduced copies on photographic paper are also common. The full sized ones that are used are quite scarce as most of them were reduced then destroyed. Ted.
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
Ted,
Interesting back story. Thanks for sharing. Here is one of these used V-Mail forms that traveled through the regular mail instead of being photographed and destroyed. I am showing five views. The back of the form is particularly interesting, because only the front was photographed and those that have seen only the photographed and shrunk V-Mail messages probably have never seen the instructions printed on the back. I am not reducing size, so that you get an idea of the dimension of the original sheet. The U.S. Government Printing Office form number is "1943 16-28143-5" (bottom right of sheet).
Front, folded:
Back, folded:
Front, unfolded:
Back unfolded:
The red bars on the back make for a V-shaped design when folding the sheet:
The letter is postmarked 4BPO, Oct, 23, 1944, the 4th Base Post Office located in the Philippine Islands at the time. Interesting is the first paragraph of the instructions on the back which states that V-Mail messages will be dispatched by the most expeditious means if photographing service is not available to a certain destination. Well, V-Mail service certainly was available stateside, the letter is addressed to North Carolina. So, why did this sheet not get processed but went through the regular mail stream instead?
If you take a closer look you will see on the front, below the address, and also on the unfolded sheet in the address field at top a faint hand stamp "NOT SUITABLE FOR FILMING." Why this particular letter was not considered suitable for filming, I don't know. But some postal clerk, in a similar position as Ted's Dad must have made that determination at the time, so that I can present you this example now.
Arno
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
Arno - thanks for posting all the views of the letter. Never seen one before. Very interesting. A picture really is worth a thousand words sometimes.... Sally
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
05 May 2013
11:50:15am
re: V-Mail & My Dad
Arno,
This is really interesting. Thank you for posting!
Lisa
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04:40:28pm
re: V-Mail & My Dad
Yes, thank you for the Scans. I don't know who made the decision to not photograph it or why they didn't. My Dad was not part, of the Army Post Office, just the photographic unit. Therefore I would imagine that the decision was made before he received the forms to reduce.
Sure is interesting reading those old letters. Many of the WW2 Vet's are gone now.They sure were a great Generation. Ted.
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
I think I might have solved the mystery. In the script it reads "The mail main is certainly doing us dirt. I haven't heard for two or three days. Not your fault, of course."
Payback from the "mail man" perhaps?
Login to Like
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
Lars,
That was a good catch about the mailman. The fellows writing was hard to read with that back slant he had. I also like your tag line about the elephant. Sounds exactly like good old Groucho Marx!
Arno,
Aren't you glad it went snail mail, so that you would be able to add it to your collection?
Thanks for sharing that with us.
Mike
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
Mike, you are correct about Groucho Marx. I've been making adjustments to my profile to get my posts to look right and the attribution got knocked off the quote. I think I have it back now. Courtesy of Animal Crackers!
(I also like when Capt. Spaulding says they had a tough time removing the tusks, but it would have been easier in Alabama because the "tusks are loosa"). Priceless!
Login to Like
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
@ Mike
Yes. I am certainly happy to have a few of these. However, I actually collect the APO cancels. So, to me, there is not really additional value attached to having the cancel on a regular cover or on an V-Mail form. I have not specifically sought these out for being V-Mail forms. They just happen to be in my regular APO collection. Actually, I find V-Mail "annoying" from a postmark collecting perspective in that the ubiquitous regular V-Mail covers really do not leave much to collect.
Here is another form, mailed from APO 524, Casablanca, Morocco, June 29, 1944. The U.S. Government printing Office form number on this one, printed in the bottom right corner, is 1943 16-28143-4. The first V-Mail form had the form number 1943 16-28143-5. I edited the latter info into the earlier post. The forms show very distinct differences, most notably in the instructions. I am sure someone must have researched and cataloged the various forms. I am again showing the full set of views.
Front, folded:
Back, folded:
Front, unfolded:
Back, unfolded:
Partially folded back:
This time, the reason why the form was not photographed and destroyed, but traveled regular mail, is not apparent.
Arno
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
I just love the message. This guy is a real character!
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09:38:40pm
re: V-Mail & My Dad
Rhinelander: I kept a few of my Dad's letters to my Mom. His APO was: 641. Ted.
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
I would appreciate some insight on a recent antique store find of mine that is related to the recent SOR V-Mail topic.
Last weekend, I found 9 original, completely filled-in V-Mail lettersheets in an antique store. They were sent by Mrs. Ivy Underwood, Villa Rica, Ga to:
Lt. T.I Underwood 0-291392
438 Bomber Sq. 319 Bomb Grp
APO 520 c/o Postmaster
New York, N.Y.
Since the V-Mails were not being sent by a member of the armed forces (but rather being sent TO a member of the armed forces), "free" was not allowed and all 9 sheets have either a cancelled 3-cent Victory stamp (the domestic rate at the time) or a cancelled 6-cent airmail Scott C-25 stamp (the air mail rate.)
However, the March, 1943 postmarks on all 9 sheets are either Villa Rica, Ga or Atlanta, Ga, not an APO postmark.
Additionally, none of the sheets has an "examiner / censor" rubber stamp marking.
So, it seems to me that these V-Mails were never processed as V-Mail, i.e., they were never examined, microfilmed, etc. Instead, they were processed through the regular mail.
Why?
Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.
Login to Like
this post
re: V-Mail & My Dad
Steve,
If you can get your hands on a scanner, I would certainly be interested to see an image of the front and back of an unfolded sheet. Absent a picture, which could enable more specific information, you are looking at some V-Mail sheets that traveled in the opposite direction, home to front as opposed to the two sheets shown here, which were posted by servicemen stationed abroad to family back home in the U.S. This explains half of your questions.
The V-Mail sheets did not receive APO postmarks, because they were posted by Ms. Underwood at the local post office in Atlanta to her husband currently serving in Algeria (that is where APO 520 was located in March 1943). For the same reason, there are no censor markings, because there was no censorship of mail posted to service members. And, of course, the mail has stamps, because the wife, not serving in the military, did not have free franking privileges.
Usually, V-Mail was supposed to get microfilmed to cut back on air tonnage. However, this requires that the film, once it arrived overseas, can be processed, messages printed out, and delivered. Because you have a run of several V-Mail air sheets to the same address over a certain time range, I must assume that there was no individual issue that rendered all of these "non-processable.' Instead, I surmise that there was no equipment at hand at the receiving end in Algeria that could handle V-Mail at the time. Accordingly, the mail was transmitted the regular way (see instructions printed on the sheets).
Arno
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re: V-Mail & My Dad
Arno.
Thanks very much for the explanation. Makes perfect sense. It seems that Mrs. Underwood was unaware that using V-Mail sheets was not necessary since Algeria didn't have V-Mail equipment!
Here are images of the front and back of one of the V-Mail sheets Mrs. Underwood used.
Login to Like
this post
re: V-Mail & My Dad
Interesting. I thought that perhaps the forms for V-Mail used domestically would look different from the forms distributed to servicemen, but it really does not look that different. For instance, thre is a spot for the censor stamp at the top of the sheet. It is a slightly different form again, however. One difference that I noticed is the wording "After ___ Days Return To:" on top of the return address. Just for future reference, perhaps you can post the form number given on the sheet. I am pretty sure a catalog must exist for this area and some of the forms could be scarcer thn others. Overall a lot less mail survived mailed to service members than mailed from service members during the war. While all letters received by spouses, parents, sibilings and girl friends were cherrished and preserved, mail reveceived by the soldier usually was not kept due to the conditions of the war. This is why WWII soldier's mail for the most part is plentiful yet today.
Arno
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