Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
So one could call this a spin-off from that thread, a relation even given some of the answers.
Here is an example of what makes me angry.
Sellers that try it on...and succeed !
I have just been looking at a few eBay items and already I got angry !
Here are two examples of someone selling something they claim, and believe, is old and quite rare ! But I wonder.........
here
and
here
The gullible buyers do not know that these are cut-outs from Non-postal souvenirs, not Essays not eeven copies of essays. They are not even old. And here is a seller roping in £20+ for an item, that in it's entirety, can be had for a couple of dollars !!
These type of things are going on all the time and I ALWAYS write and let the sellers know, sometimes with very rude responses ! This time I discovered them too late as the auction had bids and ends soon. I am sorry for the buyers that I was not able to help them in time.
So what makes you angry as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions?
Londonbus1
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What I dislike are descriptions such as that on the second link you posted:
" An early Airmail design in Lilac and in mint condition. Quite a rare little item I think and a real bargain at a starting bid of just £5 and that includes the p&p. He or she who hesitates is lost! Do not Delay Twitch your Mouse Today! Be that All Important 1st bidder, then keep this safe for generations to come. Good Luck to You, Old Bobble."
It's the "quite a rare little item I think" that makes me wary, but the "real bargain at a starting bid of just £5" pushes me over the edge. Don't tell me what is a bargain or not, and a "real" one at that. Then this nonsense: "Do not Delay Twitch your Mouse Today! Be that All Important 1st bidder, then keep this safe for generations to come." Ugh. Why can't sellers just describe the ITEM objectively and clearly, and not editorialize or patronize?
Peter
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Yes, it is frustrating to see false offerings, fakes and forgeries being offered as genuine. I, too, shake my head at those who bid some of these items up to heights we could all wish that our genuine offerings would sell for. I also am disturbed at how the buyers, when they learn exactly what it is that they had purchased, bad mouth the hobby.
The sellers, who probably for the most part know what it is they are selling, are not going to remove their listing when they know they can get money from the greedy hoping to buy low and then turn around and resell at a high profit margin.
It all comes down to one thing. If you're going to get into a hobby, then learn what the hobby is about. Seek out others in the hobby. Online sites like SOR are great places for new collectors to post questions and learn all they want. If someone is not willing to learn, then they only have themselves to blame when they get taken.
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Well I can't say anything someone does on Ebay ever "angers" me, but I do get concerned from time to time.
One big concern are sellers that know they have something that isn't genuine and probably got rooked themselves when they paid for the item, and then fail to disclose the problem. This kind of deceit by omission can then be covered by a claim of ignorance on their part.
One personal encounter I had was purchasing an old Scott National album and every page was clearly photographed except the last, which contained questionable confederate stamps that just happened to be obscured by the shade. The sun must have set by the time they photographed the last page. This was a while back when I was a little more naive, but I adjusted my bid original bid to account for the poor visibility of the page. The stamps turned out to be facsimilies with "Facsimile" printed on the back of each one. I politely demanded a discount from the seller in exchange for good feedback and the seller complied, but not without moaning about not making any money on the deal.
Here an image of that page:
I saw from the image the top two stamps on the right looked fishy and adjusted my bid accordingly, but the fact they were clearly marked on the back convinced me the seller either was more naive than I or dishonest.
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"If someone is not willing to learn, then they only have themselves to blame when they get taken."
Hmmm... While the buyer is partly to blame I think the bulk of the blame lies with the dishonest seller. Generally I believe dishonesty to be more reprehensible than ignorance or laziness, and its only ignorance/laziness at worst, as the buyer could simply be too trusting (which seems more likely).
Since its a two way transaction, lets assign half the blame to each.
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I believe you need to act in several different ways when you come across items of this nature.
First you must report this to ebay.( I reported both items) I know your response is-They wont do Anything- wrong They will act if enough people report the item. Squeaky wheel will get the grease.
Second bring your concerns to the seller and let them know you reported this item. On several occasions ebay has NARUed members for to many complaints.
Third post your concerns on several different site threads. With any luck the bidders or buyers will catch wind of the bogus item and not complete the transaction.
Posting what makes you mad here helps to bring the BIGGEST problem in our hobby to light but does nothing to stop it. I believe we are all stewards of our hobby and need to take ownership back from the fraudsters and scamers.
I am a transplant from BS and I would spend many hours browsing that site and found-outed many a scammer. I have been here for a couple of months and not even seen a hint of anything fishy here kudos to SOR it has to be very difficult weeding out the bad from the good. Great job.
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Moaners, whiners and complainers:
Why shop on "eBay" or elsewhere if it gives you heartburn?
Moreover, I'm not interested about problems encountered on other websites,
I'm interested in Stamporama concerns.
John Derry
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I will ignore that last response !
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Never said that dishonest sellers are not to blame. They certainly are. When you buy something in the store, do you check it out? Do you shop around? Do you plunk down a pile of money to buy a used car without checking it out first?
How many buyers see a "too good to be true" item for sale on a web site and jump all over it thinking that the seller had it wrong, and that they will make a killing on the resale only to be the ones to have been duped?
All I'm saying is educate yourself on what you're buying before you buy. It won't prevent you from getting duped now and then, but it most likely will minimize any loss.
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Prepare yourself, Dryer, you ain't seen nothing yet.
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What Zipper said ! 
Just for interest, both cut-outs sold for a whopping £16 each. A total of around US$50 !!
At any given time, you can buy it for under a pound or a bit more than a dollar. It pays to shop around.
Here is the cheaper version.....maybe I should cut the pictures out ! 
Londonbus1
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Just to underline my point , and my anger, a friend of mine has just picked up this little lot.....
here
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It can't hurt to point out and discuss these potential scams. They could occur on any site, not just Ebay.
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"It can't hurt to point out and discuss these potential scams. They could occur on any site, not just Ebay."
We MUST point them out, no matter what Dryer might think. It doesn't matter if they are here, eBay or a dealer list.
I have seen many, including some from top dealers in the UK. I write to them all.
I have no problem treading on cheating toes.
Londonbus1
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There used to be a website where they actively monitored and reported on eBay selling scams and scammers; I lost the link when I changed computers, so I don't know if it still exists. They did a pretty thorough job of finding scammers who would use different IDs once NARUd by eBay. Anyone know the site?
Peter
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Here it is Scads but is not as active as in the past.
http://www.scads.org/
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-07-12 03:09:08)
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12:33:37am
For those who only suspect that being "NARU" is not a badge of honor;
NARU
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Hi All
Stampboards is right on these scammers
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=38353
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=44370&p=3308243&hilit=crooks#p3308243
Here's a few sellers to watch
Brian
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-07-12 03:10:45)
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Funny thing is on one of my linkedin groups, a couple of people were "Defending" ebay, saying "You'll see more forgeries for sale as the real thing from 'reputable' stamp dealers' than you do on ebay"
I'm one of those people who refuse to buy anything off e-bay when it comes to just the _threat_ of possible forgeries.
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here is another example, not as bad as some I have seen but with a misleading description.
Why would I want to pay £4.99 for a cut-out from a stamp/label, ½ a label !!??
I collect reproductions as part of my Cinderella collection but this is a practice I can do without.
The sheet is much nicer, cheaper and more logical to collect !
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11:34:40pm
I have this pane, less the lower selvedge, mounted in the King George VI section of my UK album to commemorate the end of the "Sitzkrieg" and the start of the Churchill government.
While the declared war started on September 3rd, as the German Army entered Poland, there was only minimal activity in Western Europe for about six months, allowing the German Army time to complete the destruction of Poland (helped, by the USSR) and transfer armor and infantry units to the French/Belgium German border.
Some people made jokes and songs about the minor stalemate, one song laughingly explaining that the soldier was hanging his laundry out to dry on the Siegfried line, between Germany and France.
The jokes stopped in April when Denmark and Norway were invaded and essentially overrun, followed by the end-run through Belgium and Holland around French Maginot defenses on the border. The government of Neville Chamberlain, long accused of appeasement and being ineffective, fell during the middle of the 1940 Stamp Show and Winston Churchill became the prime minister. France was defeated by the middle of June and Churchill and Britain was alone but for the commonwealth nations.
It must have been a very tense time to hold a Stamp Exposition, but organizers had decided to proceed as planned due to the seeming absence of any real military action in the months leading up to May 10th, 1940, a turning point in Western history. I can imagine the stress of trying to be civil and choose stamps while anticipating bombs falling at any minute.
" .... Oh Mother dear, I'm writing you from somewhere in France,
Hoping that this letter finds you well.
The sergeant says I'm doing fine, a soldier and a half,
Here's a song that we all sing,it will make you laugh!
We're gonna hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line,
Have you any dirty washing, mother dear?
We're gonna hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line,
‘Cause our washing day is here.
Whether the weather may be wet or fine,
We just scrub along without a care!
We're gonna hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line,
If the Siegfried Line's still there! ...."
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Charlie,
Holding that Exhibition was not so simple. In fact the oginally planned Expo was cancelled because of the War. It is an interesting story which I will try to explain later.
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12:45:19pm
Mike,
I think I read about that somewhere and that the idea was to carry on despite Mr. Hitler's threats, stiff upper lip, and all that and of course, support the Red Cross and St. John's Ambulance Fund. It must have been an article in a stamp publication. I just do not recall the story right now.
The first bombing of London occurred during the exhibition days and certainly added to the emotions of the attendees.
.
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Last night I was reading through some old, and not so old threads and the one that stood out up to now was 'What influences me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions' in the Auction section.
So one could call this a spin-off from that thread, a relation even given some of the answers.
Here is an example of what makes me angry.
Sellers that try it on...and succeed !
I have just been looking at a few eBay items and already I got angry !
Here are two examples of someone selling something they claim, and believe, is old and quite rare ! But I wonder.........
here
and
here
The gullible buyers do not know that these are cut-outs from Non-postal souvenirs, not Essays not eeven copies of essays. They are not even old. And here is a seller roping in £20+ for an item, that in it's entirety, can be had for a couple of dollars !!
These type of things are going on all the time and I ALWAYS write and let the sellers know, sometimes with very rude responses ! This time I discovered them too late as the auction had bids and ends soon. I am sorry for the buyers that I was not able to help them in time.
So what makes you angry as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions?
Londonbus1
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01:31:03pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
What I dislike are descriptions such as that on the second link you posted:
" An early Airmail design in Lilac and in mint condition. Quite a rare little item I think and a real bargain at a starting bid of just £5 and that includes the p&p. He or she who hesitates is lost! Do not Delay Twitch your Mouse Today! Be that All Important 1st bidder, then keep this safe for generations to come. Good Luck to You, Old Bobble."
It's the "quite a rare little item I think" that makes me wary, but the "real bargain at a starting bid of just £5" pushes me over the edge. Don't tell me what is a bargain or not, and a "real" one at that. Then this nonsense: "Do not Delay Twitch your Mouse Today! Be that All Important 1st bidder, then keep this safe for generations to come." Ugh. Why can't sellers just describe the ITEM objectively and clearly, and not editorialize or patronize?
Peter
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01:38:18pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Yes, it is frustrating to see false offerings, fakes and forgeries being offered as genuine. I, too, shake my head at those who bid some of these items up to heights we could all wish that our genuine offerings would sell for. I also am disturbed at how the buyers, when they learn exactly what it is that they had purchased, bad mouth the hobby.
The sellers, who probably for the most part know what it is they are selling, are not going to remove their listing when they know they can get money from the greedy hoping to buy low and then turn around and resell at a high profit margin.
It all comes down to one thing. If you're going to get into a hobby, then learn what the hobby is about. Seek out others in the hobby. Online sites like SOR are great places for new collectors to post questions and learn all they want. If someone is not willing to learn, then they only have themselves to blame when they get taken.
Login to Like
this post
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Well I can't say anything someone does on Ebay ever "angers" me, but I do get concerned from time to time.
One big concern are sellers that know they have something that isn't genuine and probably got rooked themselves when they paid for the item, and then fail to disclose the problem. This kind of deceit by omission can then be covered by a claim of ignorance on their part.
One personal encounter I had was purchasing an old Scott National album and every page was clearly photographed except the last, which contained questionable confederate stamps that just happened to be obscured by the shade. The sun must have set by the time they photographed the last page. This was a while back when I was a little more naive, but I adjusted my bid original bid to account for the poor visibility of the page. The stamps turned out to be facsimilies with "Facsimile" printed on the back of each one. I politely demanded a discount from the seller in exchange for good feedback and the seller complied, but not without moaning about not making any money on the deal.
Here an image of that page:
I saw from the image the top two stamps on the right looked fishy and adjusted my bid accordingly, but the fact they were clearly marked on the back convinced me the seller either was more naive than I or dishonest.
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
"If someone is not willing to learn, then they only have themselves to blame when they get taken."
Hmmm... While the buyer is partly to blame I think the bulk of the blame lies with the dishonest seller. Generally I believe dishonesty to be more reprehensible than ignorance or laziness, and its only ignorance/laziness at worst, as the buyer could simply be too trusting (which seems more likely).
Since its a two way transaction, lets assign half the blame to each.
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
10 Jul 2013
02:44:41pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
I believe you need to act in several different ways when you come across items of this nature.
First you must report this to ebay.( I reported both items) I know your response is-They wont do Anything- wrong They will act if enough people report the item. Squeaky wheel will get the grease.
Second bring your concerns to the seller and let them know you reported this item. On several occasions ebay has NARUed members for to many complaints.
Third post your concerns on several different site threads. With any luck the bidders or buyers will catch wind of the bogus item and not complete the transaction.
Posting what makes you mad here helps to bring the BIGGEST problem in our hobby to light but does nothing to stop it. I believe we are all stewards of our hobby and need to take ownership back from the fraudsters and scamers.
I am a transplant from BS and I would spend many hours browsing that site and found-outed many a scammer. I have been here for a couple of months and not even seen a hint of anything fishy here kudos to SOR it has to be very difficult weeding out the bad from the good. Great job.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
10 Jul 2013
02:45:48pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Moaners, whiners and complainers:
Why shop on "eBay" or elsewhere if it gives you heartburn?
Moreover, I'm not interested about problems encountered on other websites,
I'm interested in Stamporama concerns.
John Derry
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
I will ignore that last response !
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04:19:37pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Never said that dishonest sellers are not to blame. They certainly are. When you buy something in the store, do you check it out? Do you shop around? Do you plunk down a pile of money to buy a used car without checking it out first?
How many buyers see a "too good to be true" item for sale on a web site and jump all over it thinking that the seller had it wrong, and that they will make a killing on the resale only to be the ones to have been duped?
All I'm saying is educate yourself on what you're buying before you buy. It won't prevent you from getting duped now and then, but it most likely will minimize any loss.
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Dogs are my favorite people. I hang with this one as often as I can.
10 Jul 2013
06:41:32pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Prepare yourself, Dryer, you ain't seen nothing yet.
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
What Zipper said !
Just for interest, both cut-outs sold for a whopping £16 each. A total of around US$50 !!
At any given time, you can buy it for under a pound or a bit more than a dollar. It pays to shop around.
Here is the cheaper version.....maybe I should cut the pictures out !
Londonbus1
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Just to underline my point , and my anger, a friend of mine has just picked up this little lot.....
here
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
It can't hurt to point out and discuss these potential scams. They could occur on any site, not just Ebay.
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
"It can't hurt to point out and discuss these potential scams. They could occur on any site, not just Ebay."
We MUST point them out, no matter what Dryer might think. It doesn't matter if they are here, eBay or a dealer list.
I have seen many, including some from top dealers in the UK. I write to them all.
I have no problem treading on cheating toes.
Londonbus1
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05:10:41pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
There used to be a website where they actively monitored and reported on eBay selling scams and scammers; I lost the link when I changed computers, so I don't know if it still exists. They did a pretty thorough job of finding scammers who would use different IDs once NARUd by eBay. Anyone know the site?
Peter
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To error is human -to really fowl things up takes a computer
11 Jul 2013
06:21:19pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Here it is Scads but is not as active as in the past.
http://www.scads.org/
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-07-12 03:09:08)
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
12 Jul 2013
12:33:37am
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
For those who only suspect that being "NARU" is not a badge of honor;
NARU
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Auctions
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Hi All
Stampboards is right on these scammers
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=38353
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=44370&p=3308243&hilit=crooks#p3308243
Here's a few sellers to watch
Brian
(Modified by Moderator on 2013-07-12 03:10:45)
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Funny thing is on one of my linkedin groups, a couple of people were "Defending" ebay, saying "You'll see more forgeries for sale as the real thing from 'reputable' stamp dealers' than you do on ebay"
I'm one of those people who refuse to buy anything off e-bay when it comes to just the _threat_ of possible forgeries.
Login to Like
this post
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
here is another example, not as bad as some I have seen but with a misleading description.
Why would I want to pay £4.99 for a cut-out from a stamp/label, ½ a label !!??
I collect reproductions as part of my Cinderella collection but this is a practice I can do without.
The sheet is much nicer, cheaper and more logical to collect !
Login to Like
this post
Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
13 Jul 2013
11:34:40pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
I have this pane, less the lower selvedge, mounted in the King George VI section of my UK album to commemorate the end of the "Sitzkrieg" and the start of the Churchill government.
While the declared war started on September 3rd, as the German Army entered Poland, there was only minimal activity in Western Europe for about six months, allowing the German Army time to complete the destruction of Poland (helped, by the USSR) and transfer armor and infantry units to the French/Belgium German border.
Some people made jokes and songs about the minor stalemate, one song laughingly explaining that the soldier was hanging his laundry out to dry on the Siegfried line, between Germany and France.
The jokes stopped in April when Denmark and Norway were invaded and essentially overrun, followed by the end-run through Belgium and Holland around French Maginot defenses on the border. The government of Neville Chamberlain, long accused of appeasement and being ineffective, fell during the middle of the 1940 Stamp Show and Winston Churchill became the prime minister. France was defeated by the middle of June and Churchill and Britain was alone but for the commonwealth nations.
It must have been a very tense time to hold a Stamp Exposition, but organizers had decided to proceed as planned due to the seeming absence of any real military action in the months leading up to May 10th, 1940, a turning point in Western history. I can imagine the stress of trying to be civil and choose stamps while anticipating bombs falling at any minute.
" .... Oh Mother dear, I'm writing you from somewhere in France,
Hoping that this letter finds you well.
The sergeant says I'm doing fine, a soldier and a half,
Here's a song that we all sing,it will make you laugh!
We're gonna hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line,
Have you any dirty washing, mother dear?
We're gonna hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line,
‘Cause our washing day is here.
Whether the weather may be wet or fine,
We just scrub along without a care!
We're gonna hang out the washing on the Siegfried Line,
If the Siegfried Line's still there! ...."
Login to Like
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re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Charlie,
Holding that Exhibition was not so simple. In fact the oginally planned Expo was cancelled because of the War. It is an interesting story which I will try to explain later.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
14 Jul 2013
12:45:19pm
re: What angers me as a buyer when looking at Online Auctions.
Mike,
I think I read about that somewhere and that the idea was to carry on despite Mr. Hitler's threats, stiff upper lip, and all that and of course, support the Red Cross and St. John's Ambulance Fund. It must have been an article in a stamp publication. I just do not recall the story right now.
The first bombing of London occurred during the exhibition days and certainly added to the emotions of the attendees.
.
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