Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
Discussion - Member to Member Sales - Research Center
10:32:21am
For example, the Boston Marathon bombings - why not commemorate the first responders and bystanders who jumped into danger to help others? Or the people who lost limbs and have vowed to persevere? Or even memorialize the people who were tragically killed?
The same can be said of 9/11. I do not condone memorializing a terrorist act, but what about the first responders who risked their lives to try to find survivors?
How about the Connecticut Sandy Hook school shootings? Those teachers did absolutely amazing things to try to protect their students. Can't we commemorate them?
What does everyone else think??
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11:34:33am
I agree...I don't want to see the rubble of the twin towers on a stamp. I'm talking about stamps that show the good of the people after these tragic events.
As far as the Titanic, there were Americans on board who were killed but the disaster helped ship builders learn new and better ways to build ships using some methods that are still in use today.
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Lisa, some of the things you mention, 9/11, have been commemorated. Scott B2 commemorates the first responders with that now-iconic photograph. Scott B3 commemorates the wholesale threat to much of the world's wildlife; it's a disaster that happens in part because it's mostly invisible.
Our World War II issues commemorated both victories and defeats (loss of ships in convoys; Pearl Harbor); and CTC commemorated such things as the dust bowl. During WWII, we commemorated Correigador, a disaster on many levels.
Finally, our Civil War issue commemorated battles that were defeats for both the north and the south as well as days, as at Sharpsburgh, in which more Americans died on a single day than anywhere else, ever, and which both sides saw as both defeat and victory.
David
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"As for the Titanic, it was a British ship, which sailed from the UK, and sank in international waters. What does it have to do with the US??"
In 1902 the White Star Line was absorbed into the International Mercantile Marine Co., a large American shipping conglomerate. Bruce Ismay ceded control of the White Star Line to IMM in the face of intense pressure from shareholders and J. P. Morgan. The Titanic, though built in Belfast, was owned by an American company.
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"The Titanic, though built in Belfast, was owned by an American company."
sailing under the British flag
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01:58:59pm
The Titanic --> Built and operated on the backs of Irishmen, funded by Americans, sailing under the Union Jack, sinking off the coast of Canada. While perhaps not viewed as "international", it certainly encompassed a large component of the western world. Not including the vast numbers of immigrants in the second and third class decks that came from various European countries.
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On reading these comments, it is easy to understand why so many denominated-only postage stamps
are issued.
Canada often takes the fantasy route to avoid criticism of postage stamps depicting ugly occurrences. Stamps were issued this year to commemorate and celebrate our victory (of a whimsical sort) over the Americans in the War of 1812. Locating Canada on a map of 1812 is another matter.
I've seen offensive depictions on postage stamps and have some in my collection. Postage stamps themselves do not offend me.
Does any Stamporama member remember a postage stamp issue being recalled or terminated because of
public outrage?
John Derry
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yes, the response to the atomic bomb being dropped, concluding the second world war. it wasn't issued.
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04:47:55pm
David - thank you for pointing out those stamps. I'll be sure to get my hands on them.
Kelly - I agree completely, the Titanic is viewed by many as international.
Two things come to mind here. First, if we commemorate battles and wars that we lost, why not commemorate natural disasters like Katrina, Super Storm Sandy or the San Fransisco earthquake of the 30's?
Second, I'm reminded of a new exhibit at the museum close to my home. They now have an array of photos from the Vietnam War that are by far the most graphic I have ever seen. Some people view it as art and some say it's too soon to be commemorating something that happened so (relatively) recently. Still others just feel it's too graphic, period.
Are any of those reasons why the USPS doesn't issue stamps about certain things? Does anyone know who or why the first entity made a decision not to commemorate disasters? Has it ever been re-addressed?
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I wouldn't mind commemoratives of disasters, but they would need to be historically distant and significant. Titanic and Hindenberg would be appropriate. Hurricane Katrina would be too soon. If we were to commemorate a hurricane, Camille would be a better choice. I would assume the focus of the issue would be what we learned and how we progressed after the disaster.
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What about the Apollo-1 fire and the Shuttle Challenger and Columbia accidents? How about memorializing the crews? This is discussed every anniversary as they came just 6 days apart.
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"What about the Apollo-1 fire and the Shuttle Challenger and Columbia accidents? How about memorializing the crews? This is discussed every anniversary as they came just 6 days apart."
I actually thought of those when I mentioned Titanic and Hindenberg. It seems that 2017 (50th Anniversary) would be a good time to issue that stamp and would be a good lead up to the Apollo series that culminated with Apollo 11 landing on the moon in 1969.
Personally I think it's still too soon to do a Challenger memorial (even though Challenger was featured on US 2544). I'm not saying 50 years is a rule-of-thumb, but I believe the disaster needs to have become an historical event instead of a recent memory. Just my opinion, of course!
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09:05:11pm
" .... yes, the response to the atomic bomb being dropped, concluding the second world war. ..........."
........ and saving the lives of probably a half million American servicemen, including three or four of my uncles as well as my father and two of his cousins all of whom were serving in one branch or the other. I was already here but a dozen of my cousins, and by extension, their children ,might not be alive today.
Yes, the death toll in Japan, both during the bombing as well as in its aftermath was horrendous, but it was a terrible war and I felt saddened when I visited the memorial in Hiroshima and toured the museum, especially after meeting some Japanese and realizing that they were pretty decent people and victims of some very poor political choices, but still, to me, four uncles, my father and his cousins came home alive due to the Atomic Bombings ending that war when it did.
Around the time when the end of WW II stamp was being discussed one of my cousins who was born about 1950 was talking about how horrible Hiroshima and Nagasaki were. I pointed out to her that her father would have been deeply involved in the landings, perhaps not the first day, but in the first week and considering the possibilities, both she, her younger sister and both brothers might never have been conceived.
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Good point, Charlie. My father was in the Merchant Marines in WWII, sailing the Atlantic and Pacific. The German U-boats were the deadliest threat, but the Japanese had subs, too, and he would have been a target in the Pacific longer without the atomic bombs. A Japanese sub sank the USS Indianapolis shortly after it delivered the first atomic bomb, resulting in the legendary shark attack, so it's quite possible the atomic bombing saved my fathers' life prior to my conception.
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This image of the Railway Station at Skopje, and its stopped clock, devastated by the 1963 earthquake, first appeared on a Yugoslav stamp 12 years after the earthquake. It became a national icon and reappeared regularly on stamps over the next 15 years. After the breakup of Yugoslavia it was taken up by Macedonia, and is still used from time to time. The stamps raised large sums of money for the Red Cross and other emergency services, and the image was regarded as a perfect way to keep in the mind of those who had lived through the earthquake, and those who had not, the importance both of the emergency services and national solidarity.
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Just watched the Ken Burns documentary on the Dust Bowl. Now THAT was a multi-year disaster that had wide devastating impact on the country.
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10:43:46am
" ... the Dust Bowl. Now THAT was a multi-year disaster ...."
And today, while there is apparently no such thing as human induced climate change,(Note) there was an unusual huge dust cloud that rolled over the Dallas area a few months ago and the lack of any strong hurricanes this year so far is thought to be due to an even larger dust cloud rolling out from the Sahara to the eastern Atlantic where tropical depressions often are born, form up and start their trip West.
I don't know whether to be happy or sad.
(Note) So it has been said by certain congressmen who are members of the House Science Committee, who have no scientific background. But then what do I know.
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"But then what do I know."
Charlie, from your posts that I've read, you know a heck of a lot more than they do!
p.s. please don't run for Congress; we don't want you corrupted.
Peter
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Very interesting subject, never really though about it before. But I hate it when I agree with "everybody" and their different opinions, so just chiming in with my 1/2 cent... lol sorry, that's it. I agree with all of you.
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
19 Aug 2013
10:32:21am
I've brought this up a couple times, but never started a thread to discuss it. The US has chosen not to commemorate any type of disaster on stamps. I was pretty upset that they didn't commemorate the 100th anniversary of th Titanic sinking. My issue is this: even a man made disaster has good things that come of it in the end and aside from that, why not memorialize the innocent victims?
For example, the Boston Marathon bombings - why not commemorate the first responders and bystanders who jumped into danger to help others? Or the people who lost limbs and have vowed to persevere? Or even memorialize the people who were tragically killed?
The same can be said of 9/11. I do not condone memorializing a terrorist act, but what about the first responders who risked their lives to try to find survivors?
How about the Connecticut Sandy Hook school shootings? Those teachers did absolutely amazing things to try to protect their students. Can't we commemorate them?
What does everyone else think??
Login to Like
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It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
19 Aug 2013
11:34:33am
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
I agree...I don't want to see the rubble of the twin towers on a stamp. I'm talking about stamps that show the good of the people after these tragic events.
As far as the Titanic, there were Americans on board who were killed but the disaster helped ship builders learn new and better ways to build ships using some methods that are still in use today.
Login to Like
this post
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
Lisa, some of the things you mention, 9/11, have been commemorated. Scott B2 commemorates the first responders with that now-iconic photograph. Scott B3 commemorates the wholesale threat to much of the world's wildlife; it's a disaster that happens in part because it's mostly invisible.
Our World War II issues commemorated both victories and defeats (loss of ships in convoys; Pearl Harbor); and CTC commemorated such things as the dust bowl. During WWII, we commemorated Correigador, a disaster on many levels.
Finally, our Civil War issue commemorated battles that were defeats for both the north and the south as well as days, as at Sharpsburgh, in which more Americans died on a single day than anywhere else, ever, and which both sides saw as both defeat and victory.
David
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12:26:45pm
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
"As for the Titanic, it was a British ship, which sailed from the UK, and sank in international waters. What does it have to do with the US??"
In 1902 the White Star Line was absorbed into the International Mercantile Marine Co., a large American shipping conglomerate. Bruce Ismay ceded control of the White Star Line to IMM in the face of intense pressure from shareholders and J. P. Morgan. The Titanic, though built in Belfast, was owned by an American company.
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re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
"The Titanic, though built in Belfast, was owned by an American company."
sailing under the British flag
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
19 Aug 2013
01:58:59pm
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
The Titanic --> Built and operated on the backs of Irishmen, funded by Americans, sailing under the Union Jack, sinking off the coast of Canada. While perhaps not viewed as "international", it certainly encompassed a large component of the western world. Not including the vast numbers of immigrants in the second and third class decks that came from various European countries.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
19 Aug 2013
03:11:35pm
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
On reading these comments, it is easy to understand why so many denominated-only postage stamps
are issued.
Canada often takes the fantasy route to avoid criticism of postage stamps depicting ugly occurrences. Stamps were issued this year to commemorate and celebrate our victory (of a whimsical sort) over the Americans in the War of 1812. Locating Canada on a map of 1812 is another matter.
I've seen offensive depictions on postage stamps and have some in my collection. Postage stamps themselves do not offend me.
Does any Stamporama member remember a postage stamp issue being recalled or terminated because of
public outrage?
John Derry
Login to Like
this post
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
yes, the response to the atomic bomb being dropped, concluding the second world war. it wasn't issued.
Login to Like
this post
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. - Aristotle Onassis
19 Aug 2013
04:47:55pm
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
David - thank you for pointing out those stamps. I'll be sure to get my hands on them.
Kelly - I agree completely, the Titanic is viewed by many as international.
Two things come to mind here. First, if we commemorate battles and wars that we lost, why not commemorate natural disasters like Katrina, Super Storm Sandy or the San Fransisco earthquake of the 30's?
Second, I'm reminded of a new exhibit at the museum close to my home. They now have an array of photos from the Vietnam War that are by far the most graphic I have ever seen. Some people view it as art and some say it's too soon to be commemorating something that happened so (relatively) recently. Still others just feel it's too graphic, period.
Are any of those reasons why the USPS doesn't issue stamps about certain things? Does anyone know who or why the first entity made a decision not to commemorate disasters? Has it ever been re-addressed?
Login to Like
this post
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
I wouldn't mind commemoratives of disasters, but they would need to be historically distant and significant. Titanic and Hindenberg would be appropriate. Hurricane Katrina would be too soon. If we were to commemorate a hurricane, Camille would be a better choice. I would assume the focus of the issue would be what we learned and how we progressed after the disaster.
Login to Like
this post
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
What about the Apollo-1 fire and the Shuttle Challenger and Columbia accidents? How about memorializing the crews? This is discussed every anniversary as they came just 6 days apart.
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this post
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
"What about the Apollo-1 fire and the Shuttle Challenger and Columbia accidents? How about memorializing the crews? This is discussed every anniversary as they came just 6 days apart."
I actually thought of those when I mentioned Titanic and Hindenberg. It seems that 2017 (50th Anniversary) would be a good time to issue that stamp and would be a good lead up to the Apollo series that culminated with Apollo 11 landing on the moon in 1969.
Personally I think it's still too soon to do a Challenger memorial (even though Challenger was featured on US 2544). I'm not saying 50 years is a rule-of-thumb, but I believe the disaster needs to have become an historical event instead of a recent memory. Just my opinion, of course!
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
19 Aug 2013
09:05:11pm
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
" .... yes, the response to the atomic bomb being dropped, concluding the second world war. ..........."
........ and saving the lives of probably a half million American servicemen, including three or four of my uncles as well as my father and two of his cousins all of whom were serving in one branch or the other. I was already here but a dozen of my cousins, and by extension, their children ,might not be alive today.
Yes, the death toll in Japan, both during the bombing as well as in its aftermath was horrendous, but it was a terrible war and I felt saddened when I visited the memorial in Hiroshima and toured the museum, especially after meeting some Japanese and realizing that they were pretty decent people and victims of some very poor political choices, but still, to me, four uncles, my father and his cousins came home alive due to the Atomic Bombings ending that war when it did.
Around the time when the end of WW II stamp was being discussed one of my cousins who was born about 1950 was talking about how horrible Hiroshima and Nagasaki were. I pointed out to her that her father would have been deeply involved in the landings, perhaps not the first day, but in the first week and considering the possibilities, both she, her younger sister and both brothers might never have been conceived.
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re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
Good point, Charlie. My father was in the Merchant Marines in WWII, sailing the Atlantic and Pacific. The German U-boats were the deadliest threat, but the Japanese had subs, too, and he would have been a target in the Pacific longer without the atomic bombs. A Japanese sub sank the USS Indianapolis shortly after it delivered the first atomic bomb, resulting in the legendary shark attack, so it's quite possible the atomic bombing saved my fathers' life prior to my conception.
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03:25:38am
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
This image of the Railway Station at Skopje, and its stopped clock, devastated by the 1963 earthquake, first appeared on a Yugoslav stamp 12 years after the earthquake. It became a national icon and reappeared regularly on stamps over the next 15 years. After the breakup of Yugoslavia it was taken up by Macedonia, and is still used from time to time. The stamps raised large sums of money for the Red Cross and other emergency services, and the image was regarded as a perfect way to keep in the mind of those who had lived through the earthquake, and those who had not, the importance both of the emergency services and national solidarity.
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07:48:40pm
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
Just watched the Ken Burns documentary on the Dust Bowl. Now THAT was a multi-year disaster that had wide devastating impact on the country.
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
22 Aug 2013
10:43:46am
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
" ... the Dust Bowl. Now THAT was a multi-year disaster ...."
And today, while there is apparently no such thing as human induced climate change,(Note) there was an unusual huge dust cloud that rolled over the Dallas area a few months ago and the lack of any strong hurricanes this year so far is thought to be due to an even larger dust cloud rolling out from the Sahara to the eastern Atlantic where tropical depressions often are born, form up and start their trip West.
I don't know whether to be happy or sad.
(Note) So it has been said by certain congressmen who are members of the House Science Committee, who have no scientific background. But then what do I know.
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11:13:47am
re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
"But then what do I know."
Charlie, from your posts that I've read, you know a heck of a lot more than they do!
p.s. please don't run for Congress; we don't want you corrupted.
Peter
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re: Commemorating natural or man-made disasters
Very interesting subject, never really though about it before. But I hate it when I agree with "everybody" and their different opinions, so just chiming in with my 1/2 cent... lol sorry, that's it. I agree with all of you.
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