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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Auction Disc. : Paypal payment...NOT!

 

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afergjr

08 Apr 2014
12:30:30pm
Well, since I started selling here I have always packaged and send everything first thing Monday morning since MY terms state I only accept Paypal and there will be a "Sevice Fee" for not paying by the time I ship in the afternoon. Although I have only had to place a service fee on one invoice there are a few I could have added it to but, hey life goes on around this place and I understand that, BUT...
Now I have a couple Clowns marking the "Payment Sent" as Paypal (since that's all I accept) and a week later still no payment through Paypal.
Now I totally realize this a collectors place to buy and sell and hence I give free shipping, sell items as low as a penny, since I'm not here to make a living at this I thought this was a fair and reasonable practice.
My question is simple, although I welcome all users, how do I block the CLOWNS from doing business with me, since they want to take advantage of a simple process.
The total amount of items that has been shipped with no payment(although some marked "Paid") is $60.67 for 3 months. Now I have to start keeping track of who's paid and who isn't....oh this is turning out to be all kinds of fun.Rolling Eyes
Thanks
Allan


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Rhinelander
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08 Apr 2014
12:50:44pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

If buyers use the paypal link at the bottom of the invoice -- assuming the seller has activated this feature -- invoices will be automatically marked as paid and a notification sent when payment is completed.

A manual marking of the invoice as "paid" is not necessary.

HOWEVER, if the buyer does NOT use the paypal link at the bottom of the invoice, but sends a manual paypal payment from the paypal website, the invoice must be marked as paid manually as well.

I have had only one problem and it was when a buyer sent a manual payment instead of using the link and mistyped the email address. The buyer, not noticing the mistake, proceeded to mark the invoice as paid. I was able to sort this out. So my assumption here is that folks were making mistakes when sending you payment.

Arno

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afergjr

08 Apr 2014
12:55:19pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

OK, so your saying all they have to do is click the Paypal payment button here and it then becomes marked as "Paypal" even if the buying didn't complete the payment at Paypal?
Thanks for the response.
Allan

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

08 Apr 2014
12:58:20pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

"The total amount of items that has been shipped with no payment..."



Selling Rules:

Number 1:

NEVER send anything until payment is received in full.


Friends or no friends. Business is business. If your friends can't respect that, they aren't your friends.
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afergjr

08 Apr 2014
01:08:16pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Well that's why I want to UN-FRIEND them. Thumbs Up
As for sending items...well someone one told me, "Stamp collectors are some of the most honest people in the world." This being the largest collectors website regarding stamps, and I have looked for others, it seemed the most honest place to play, but without a "feedback" system or blocking capability, the element of dis-honesty will slip in.
Guess it's time to buckle down and "look" at this as business so I don't make "honest" mistakes, like trusting people.

Allan

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BobbyBarnhart
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08 Apr 2014
01:12:13pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Allan

You need to notify David Teisler with specifics. Members who mark an invoice as paid when, in fact, no payment was made, are committing fraud (in fact, it is criminal fraud, and, as they anticipate the merchandise will be sent via USPS, it raises the stakes considerably). It may be an innocent mistake, but it sounds as if this is a recurring practice.

I also wish there were a way to block selected members from buying from me or bidding on my auctions.

Bobby

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Rhinelander
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08 Apr 2014
01:25:07pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

"OK, so your saying all they have to do is click the Paypal payment button here and it then becomes marked as "Paypal" even if the buying didn't complete the payment at Paypal?"



No. At least I was not trying to say that. If the paypal link in the email is used, then the item is marked paid automatically after the paypal payment is completed.

So, the only way that items can be marked as "paid by paypal" even though no payment has arrived in your paypal account, is because of a manually marking as paid. Member may do this, if they make a manual payment by paypal, which is prone to error, instead of using the paypal link in the invoice.

Arno
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

08 Apr 2014
01:52:03pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

There has been fraud perpetrated here, but it's been rare. There have been mistakes made, and while not rare, they are not common. There has been lots of faulty communication, which is far more common than it should be and which is the reason I get involved almost all the time.

If you have a problem that you have tried to resolve, but can't, you may, nay, you should contact me. Why visit a problem on others?

If the cause of the problem causes more problems, and with any kind of consistency, I provide feedback that only the buyer and seller see, unless it's perceived to be outright fraud, in which case I will generally make that public or take steps to insulate members as much as possible.

Allan has already contacted me, but with generalities, not specifics, and i've written him privately in return, again with generalities.

Michael #s is correct: ship when paid. it makes life easier.

David the auctioneer



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Mike

08 Apr 2014
02:34:31pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Just as we use the Latin "caveat emptor", we should also use the phrase "caveat venditor", which means "seller beware", since there is always two sides to any subject. As the proverbial Chinese Laundry man always says, "No Tickee, No Washee".

Mike

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Patches

Liz

08 Apr 2014
03:09:48pm

Auctions - Approvals
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

I would also suggest checking your PayPal account.

Over the last year or so I have had some payments made to me that sit on PayPal waiting for me to accept the payments. I have no idea why this happens, but periodically it does. If I do not accept within a certain amount of time I believe the funds are returned to the person sending the funds.

From my own personal experience over the years I've been a Stamporama member I have only had a couple of transactions that went sour and those were outright fraud. Those persons were quickly investigated by David and by others and are no longer welcome on Stamporama.

Liz

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afergjr

08 Apr 2014
03:31:24pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Patches,
Thank you for the outlook. Unfortunately, I have spend two days looking at my Paypal account, thus the reason I discovered what the clowns are doing. Such a simple process gets taken advantage of I guess. Just have to be much more aware:-, than relaxed.Silly
Thanks
Allan

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

08 Apr 2014
05:42:14pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

""Stamp collectors are some of the most honest people in the world.""



- Mr. Dupont was convicted of murder

- swapping bad stamps and taking the good stamps in approval selections is common
- reperfing stamps
- cleaning cancellations off used stamps
- creating false cancellations on stamps
- cutting off perfs
- regumming stamps
- repairing damaged stamps
- not returning approval selections
- claiming shipments were never received
- shoplifting at stamp shows and shops
- selling fakes as originals
- forging stamps
- etc...

Back in the 1990s there was a service that dealers could subscribe to. It was sort of like the "credit bureau" of stamp collectors. It had around 20,000 names of collectors who were risks to do business with.

Stamp collectors are people. Expect the bad with the good.
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DRYER
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.

08 Apr 2014
10:06:29pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

...and, "michael78651", if I may quote Leona Helmsley,
"Only the little people pay taxes."

John Derry (aka "little people")

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philb
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09 Apr 2014
08:28:10am

Auctions
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Its sad that things like that can happen in a relatively small group like this. I would like to think that we are all stamp collectors and would treat one another fairly.

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

09 Apr 2014
09:08:49am
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Phil, i think Micheal was commenting on the larger philatelic/kleptomaniac community at large, and not SOR's small, storied community.

We have had a few bad ones, but they have been rare.

Unfortunately, wherever there are people, bad things can, and do, happen. I think we've been remarkable fortunate to have had as few instances of impropriety as we have. We have far more carelessness and forgetfulness.

yeah us, mostly

David

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philb
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09 Apr 2014
04:48:31pm

Auctions
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Oh Ok ! i hve tunnel vision !

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auldstampguy
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Collector, Webmaster

10 Apr 2014
07:12:22am
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Arno,
You are not quite correct about the invoice being marked as paid, automatically when using the Paypal button on the invoice. Because Stamporama is not a selling site for a single vendor, there is no way to have control sent back from Paypal to Stamporama after the successful payment is complete. Hence there is no way to automate the process of setting the invoice paid flag. The buyer always has to manually mark the invoice as paid.

Regards ... Tim

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Rhinelander
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10 Apr 2014
07:34:47am
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Tim,

Wow. Apparently, not was I "not quite correct" but completely wrong on this then. That's how I always thought it worked.

Arno

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auldstampguy
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Collector, Webmaster

10 Apr 2014
08:34:43pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Sorry Arno. I have tried very hard to make this work. Paypal is designed for a single seller. The only way to make this work consistently would be for every Stamporama seller to only sell on Stamaorama and for all the sellers to set up their Paypal accounts to return to Stamporama after the payment has been processed. If we could all do that I could automatically set the Paypal paid flag on the Auction Lot, which would eventually morph into world peace. Big Hug. I know, I'm a dreamer also.

Regards ... Tim

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cocollectibles

11 Apr 2014
08:19:40am
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Tim, FYI: I know bidStart has this, where anyone who accepts PayPal gets redirected back to the site after completing their purchase through PP, and the Items Sold get flagged as paid by PP with the transaction number. Not every seller accepts PayPal there.

Not saying we should do it; just saying it has been done somewhere.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

11 Apr 2014
05:29:56pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Peter, I believe that the way BidStart had to do this was to have a primary merchant account (BidStart). The sellers who accepted PayPal as a means of payment were then treated by the BidStart system as sub-accounts to the primary BidStart merchant account. Since SOR doesn't have a merchant account, I think that is where Tim was having the trouble trying to implement this function. I don't have an account on BidStart anymore, so I can't go there to look it up to verify this, but I do believe that is how Mark had it set up.

If I am correct on ym rembering this, I'm not sure if it can be done as a work-around, but if SOR set up a "dummy" merchant account, then it may be possible. SOR would never have a direct transaction, but the sub-accounts would. There may be ramifications to SOR of doing that, however, regarding payments mis-routed to the wrong seller account on SOR or some other monetary problem, and/or reporting issues.

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towards2112
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16 May 2014
11:18:21am
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

As a sidebar to this discussion, if you have not set up the Paypal option
in your " member's area " , you will not have Paypal as your primary payment
source. I had my brother review a couple of approval books I had just listed,
and he asked why I was not accepting Paypal ? Of course, I had not in the few
years I have been at this site, bothered to look completely through my own
personal members area other than to check for PMs. I feel like a diddy.
I had the little strike thru Paypal icon on every page. Ergo, not many will
be interested in my wares, regardless of how poor an offering they are.

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

16 May 2014
06:08:48pm
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Also, for those who want to offer PayPal, but don't want to deal with the small change purchases paid through PayPal, the SOR system lets you set up a minimum purchase amount that must be reached before PayPal becomes a payment option for the buyer.

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philb
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16 May 2014
09:07:29pm

Auctions
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

i have no quarrel with the Paypal...it saves me postage when i buy,,if someone wants to pay me with paypal i am not going to burn them for it !

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TinMan
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18 May 2014
08:25:25am
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

I know I always click the PayPal button at the bottom of the Invoice. But I always have to manually mark the Lot as paid and by Paypal. By check or cash is also an option. A problem I ran into and have in the books right now is a seller did not/has not made out an Invoice. I sent him cash and manually marked it as paid through my Inbox when I was notified I had won the Auction. It has now been about a month and there still hasn't been an Invoice made out nor have I received the order. I emailed the seller a couple weeks ago and he said he had not received the money. So I resent him a check. He still hasn't made out an Invoice and I have not received the order. I do expect it any day however as he won't send the Stamps until the check clears which is understandable. He needs to learn how to make out an Invoice when he has a winner in his auctions.

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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

18 May 2014
09:36:39am
re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Tinman

Contact David Teisler (amsd) through the SOR message center. Copy and paste your post here into that message and include particulars such as amounts, seller name, etc.

-Bobby

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Author/Postings
afergjr

08 Apr 2014
12:30:30pm

Well, since I started selling here I have always packaged and send everything first thing Monday morning since MY terms state I only accept Paypal and there will be a "Sevice Fee" for not paying by the time I ship in the afternoon. Although I have only had to place a service fee on one invoice there are a few I could have added it to but, hey life goes on around this place and I understand that, BUT...
Now I have a couple Clowns marking the "Payment Sent" as Paypal (since that's all I accept) and a week later still no payment through Paypal.
Now I totally realize this a collectors place to buy and sell and hence I give free shipping, sell items as low as a penny, since I'm not here to make a living at this I thought this was a fair and reasonable practice.
My question is simple, although I welcome all users, how do I block the CLOWNS from doing business with me, since they want to take advantage of a simple process.
The total amount of items that has been shipped with no payment(although some marked "Paid") is $60.67 for 3 months. Now I have to start keeping track of who's paid and who isn't....oh this is turning out to be all kinds of fun.Rolling Eyes
Thanks
Allan


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Rhinelander

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08 Apr 2014
12:50:44pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

If buyers use the paypal link at the bottom of the invoice -- assuming the seller has activated this feature -- invoices will be automatically marked as paid and a notification sent when payment is completed.

A manual marking of the invoice as "paid" is not necessary.

HOWEVER, if the buyer does NOT use the paypal link at the bottom of the invoice, but sends a manual paypal payment from the paypal website, the invoice must be marked as paid manually as well.

I have had only one problem and it was when a buyer sent a manual payment instead of using the link and mistyped the email address. The buyer, not noticing the mistake, proceeded to mark the invoice as paid. I was able to sort this out. So my assumption here is that folks were making mistakes when sending you payment.

Arno

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afergjr

08 Apr 2014
12:55:19pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

OK, so your saying all they have to do is click the Paypal payment button here and it then becomes marked as "Paypal" even if the buying didn't complete the payment at Paypal?
Thanks for the response.
Allan

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
08 Apr 2014
12:58:20pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

"The total amount of items that has been shipped with no payment..."



Selling Rules:

Number 1:

NEVER send anything until payment is received in full.


Friends or no friends. Business is business. If your friends can't respect that, they aren't your friends.
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afergjr

08 Apr 2014
01:08:16pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Well that's why I want to UN-FRIEND them. Thumbs Up
As for sending items...well someone one told me, "Stamp collectors are some of the most honest people in the world." This being the largest collectors website regarding stamps, and I have looked for others, it seemed the most honest place to play, but without a "feedback" system or blocking capability, the element of dis-honesty will slip in.
Guess it's time to buckle down and "look" at this as business so I don't make "honest" mistakes, like trusting people.

Allan

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
08 Apr 2014
01:12:13pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Allan

You need to notify David Teisler with specifics. Members who mark an invoice as paid when, in fact, no payment was made, are committing fraud (in fact, it is criminal fraud, and, as they anticipate the merchandise will be sent via USPS, it raises the stakes considerably). It may be an innocent mistake, but it sounds as if this is a recurring practice.

I also wish there were a way to block selected members from buying from me or bidding on my auctions.

Bobby

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Rhinelander

Support the Hobby -- Join the American Philatelic Society
08 Apr 2014
01:25:07pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

"OK, so your saying all they have to do is click the Paypal payment button here and it then becomes marked as "Paypal" even if the buying didn't complete the payment at Paypal?"



No. At least I was not trying to say that. If the paypal link in the email is used, then the item is marked paid automatically after the paypal payment is completed.

So, the only way that items can be marked as "paid by paypal" even though no payment has arrived in your paypal account, is because of a manually marking as paid. Member may do this, if they make a manual payment by paypal, which is prone to error, instead of using the paypal link in the invoice.

Arno
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
08 Apr 2014
01:52:03pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

There has been fraud perpetrated here, but it's been rare. There have been mistakes made, and while not rare, they are not common. There has been lots of faulty communication, which is far more common than it should be and which is the reason I get involved almost all the time.

If you have a problem that you have tried to resolve, but can't, you may, nay, you should contact me. Why visit a problem on others?

If the cause of the problem causes more problems, and with any kind of consistency, I provide feedback that only the buyer and seller see, unless it's perceived to be outright fraud, in which case I will generally make that public or take steps to insulate members as much as possible.

Allan has already contacted me, but with generalities, not specifics, and i've written him privately in return, again with generalities.

Michael #s is correct: ship when paid. it makes life easier.

David the auctioneer



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CapeStampMan

Mike
08 Apr 2014
02:34:31pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Just as we use the Latin "caveat emptor", we should also use the phrase "caveat venditor", which means "seller beware", since there is always two sides to any subject. As the proverbial Chinese Laundry man always says, "No Tickee, No Washee".

Mike

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"It's been three years now, since I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet..."
Patches

Liz

08 Apr 2014
03:09:48pm

Auctions - Approvals

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

I would also suggest checking your PayPal account.

Over the last year or so I have had some payments made to me that sit on PayPal waiting for me to accept the payments. I have no idea why this happens, but periodically it does. If I do not accept within a certain amount of time I believe the funds are returned to the person sending the funds.

From my own personal experience over the years I've been a Stamporama member I have only had a couple of transactions that went sour and those were outright fraud. Those persons were quickly investigated by David and by others and are no longer welcome on Stamporama.

Liz

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afergjr

08 Apr 2014
03:31:24pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Patches,
Thank you for the outlook. Unfortunately, I have spend two days looking at my Paypal account, thus the reason I discovered what the clowns are doing. Such a simple process gets taken advantage of I guess. Just have to be much more aware:-, than relaxed.Silly
Thanks
Allan

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
08 Apr 2014
05:42:14pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

""Stamp collectors are some of the most honest people in the world.""



- Mr. Dupont was convicted of murder

- swapping bad stamps and taking the good stamps in approval selections is common
- reperfing stamps
- cleaning cancellations off used stamps
- creating false cancellations on stamps
- cutting off perfs
- regumming stamps
- repairing damaged stamps
- not returning approval selections
- claiming shipments were never received
- shoplifting at stamp shows and shops
- selling fakes as originals
- forging stamps
- etc...

Back in the 1990s there was a service that dealers could subscribe to. It was sort of like the "credit bureau" of stamp collectors. It had around 20,000 names of collectors who were risks to do business with.

Stamp collectors are people. Expect the bad with the good.
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The past is a foreign country, they do things different there.
08 Apr 2014
10:06:29pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

...and, "michael78651", if I may quote Leona Helmsley,
"Only the little people pay taxes."

John Derry (aka "little people")

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philb

09 Apr 2014
08:28:10am

Auctions

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Its sad that things like that can happen in a relatively small group like this. I would like to think that we are all stamp collectors and would treat one another fairly.

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
09 Apr 2014
09:08:49am

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Phil, i think Micheal was commenting on the larger philatelic/kleptomaniac community at large, and not SOR's small, storied community.

We have had a few bad ones, but they have been rare.

Unfortunately, wherever there are people, bad things can, and do, happen. I think we've been remarkable fortunate to have had as few instances of impropriety as we have. We have far more carelessness and forgetfulness.

yeah us, mostly

David

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philb

09 Apr 2014
04:48:31pm

Auctions

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Oh Ok ! i hve tunnel vision !

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auldstampguy

Collector, Webmaster
10 Apr 2014
07:12:22am

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Arno,
You are not quite correct about the invoice being marked as paid, automatically when using the Paypal button on the invoice. Because Stamporama is not a selling site for a single vendor, there is no way to have control sent back from Paypal to Stamporama after the successful payment is complete. Hence there is no way to automate the process of setting the invoice paid flag. The buyer always has to manually mark the invoice as paid.

Regards ... Tim

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Rhinelander

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10 Apr 2014
07:34:47am

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Tim,

Wow. Apparently, not was I "not quite correct" but completely wrong on this then. That's how I always thought it worked.

Arno

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auldstampguy

Collector, Webmaster
10 Apr 2014
08:34:43pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Sorry Arno. I have tried very hard to make this work. Paypal is designed for a single seller. The only way to make this work consistently would be for every Stamporama seller to only sell on Stamaorama and for all the sellers to set up their Paypal accounts to return to Stamporama after the payment has been processed. If we could all do that I could automatically set the Paypal paid flag on the Auction Lot, which would eventually morph into world peace. Big Hug. I know, I'm a dreamer also.

Regards ... Tim

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cocollectibles

11 Apr 2014
08:19:40am

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Tim, FYI: I know bidStart has this, where anyone who accepts PayPal gets redirected back to the site after completing their purchase through PP, and the Items Sold get flagged as paid by PP with the transaction number. Not every seller accepts PayPal there.

Not saying we should do it; just saying it has been done somewhere.

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
11 Apr 2014
05:29:56pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Peter, I believe that the way BidStart had to do this was to have a primary merchant account (BidStart). The sellers who accepted PayPal as a means of payment were then treated by the BidStart system as sub-accounts to the primary BidStart merchant account. Since SOR doesn't have a merchant account, I think that is where Tim was having the trouble trying to implement this function. I don't have an account on BidStart anymore, so I can't go there to look it up to verify this, but I do believe that is how Mark had it set up.

If I am correct on ym rembering this, I'm not sure if it can be done as a work-around, but if SOR set up a "dummy" merchant account, then it may be possible. SOR would never have a direct transaction, but the sub-accounts would. There may be ramifications to SOR of doing that, however, regarding payments mis-routed to the wrong seller account on SOR or some other monetary problem, and/or reporting issues.

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towards2112

16 May 2014
11:18:21am

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

As a sidebar to this discussion, if you have not set up the Paypal option
in your " member's area " , you will not have Paypal as your primary payment
source. I had my brother review a couple of approval books I had just listed,
and he asked why I was not accepting Paypal ? Of course, I had not in the few
years I have been at this site, bothered to look completely through my own
personal members area other than to check for PMs. I feel like a diddy.
I had the little strike thru Paypal icon on every page. Ergo, not many will
be interested in my wares, regardless of how poor an offering they are.

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
16 May 2014
06:08:48pm

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Also, for those who want to offer PayPal, but don't want to deal with the small change purchases paid through PayPal, the SOR system lets you set up a minimum purchase amount that must be reached before PayPal becomes a payment option for the buyer.

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philb

16 May 2014
09:07:29pm

Auctions

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

i have no quarrel with the Paypal...it saves me postage when i buy,,if someone wants to pay me with paypal i am not going to burn them for it !

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TinMan

18 May 2014
08:25:25am

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

I know I always click the PayPal button at the bottom of the Invoice. But I always have to manually mark the Lot as paid and by Paypal. By check or cash is also an option. A problem I ran into and have in the books right now is a seller did not/has not made out an Invoice. I sent him cash and manually marked it as paid through my Inbox when I was notified I had won the Auction. It has now been about a month and there still hasn't been an Invoice made out nor have I received the order. I emailed the seller a couple weeks ago and he said he had not received the money. So I resent him a check. He still hasn't made out an Invoice and I have not received the order. I do expect it any day however as he won't send the Stamps until the check clears which is understandable. He needs to learn how to make out an Invoice when he has a winner in his auctions.

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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
18 May 2014
09:36:39am

re: Paypal payment...NOT!

Tinman

Contact David Teisler (amsd) through the SOR message center. Copy and paste your post here into that message and include particulars such as amounts, seller name, etc.

-Bobby

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