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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Help ID This Color Error

 

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robatash

11 Aug 2014
03:33:18pm
I purchased 4 sheets of the 2001 34c Lucille Ball in 2001 I believe they were sold to me before or at the release date, cant remember long time ago. I put these 4 sheets away in my collection and retired in early 2013 and started going through my collection. I noticed on the sheet, top row center stamp, Lucille ball has a red eye and the rest of the eyes are blue. Every sheet has the red eye in the same place. Any info would be greatly appreciated.Image Not Found

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

11 Aug 2014
03:38:07pm

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re: Help ID This Color Error

William,

I would venture that this is color freak, not error, with over-saturation of red. Note that our red-head is also extremely flush on the red-eye version, and her hair a tad darker.

To be an error, a color must be absent, and that doesn't seem to be the case here.

For those who collect US EFOs, this might prove interesting.

Hope that helps, and doesn't sadden too much.

David

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Bobstamp
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11 Aug 2014
03:51:29pm
re: Help ID This Color Error

I thought that if the same error showed up on different sheets, it constituted a constant plate error and therefore worthy of being catalogued. I also think I might be wrong!

Bob

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DaSaintFan
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11 Aug 2014
05:10:39pm
re: Help ID This Color Error

I was thinking the same thing as Rob. If the same error appears on multiple sheets, I was also under the assumption it's no longer a color-issue (forget the term now off the top of my head), but an out-and-out variant?


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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

11 Aug 2014
06:48:08pm
re: Help ID This Color Error

I know this is a long shot, but by chance are all 4 panes the same plate position?

Lars

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Ningpo
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11 Aug 2014
08:50:29pm
re: Help ID This Color Error

I wonder if consideration might be given to the possibility of a missing colour.

I do not profess to fully understand the whole printing process but the following extract from a description of printing anomalies of the 1962-1973 Annigoni (large format high value) definitive issues of Hong Kong, might give food for thought.....

"The lighter colours, yellow, red and ochre have been recorded completely missing. As these were always superimposed on another colour the result was more of a shade difference; a yellowish or pinkish face and darker hair...... "



I must stress that the above quote does not imply all three lighter colours have been found missing together, but in different combinations.

This image of the six colour separations of the $20 value, might give some idea of how things can go awry during (complex) printing sequences:


Image Not Found

Although the printing technology used in Rob's sheets was almost certainly different, perhaps the same principal applies.

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khj
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11 Aug 2014
09:38:02pm
re: Help ID This Color Error

There is no missing color. All four printing colors are present in both stamps. If the blue/cyan were missing from the red-eye stamp, then the "34 USA" would be colorless.

The question is, why is there red in the eye of the red-eye stamp? There was only one plate (#B1111) use for the printing of this stamp

David is correct -- this would not be considered an error, but a printing freak. He is also correct in noting that the red/magenta on the freak stamp is really scattered all over her face (you can even see it in her earring).

Lars asked the key question -- are these all from the same plate position? {and which of the 9 plate positions is it?}

Very interesting stamp!

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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

12 Aug 2014
07:58:48am

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re: Help ID This Color Error

the key is Kim's reply: very interesting stamp, and it's generated quite a lot of replies.


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robatash

13 Oct 2014
10:24:55am
re: Help ID This Color Error

Sorry for getting back so late was sick for a while

I am not sure of the plate number but all 4 sheets have B111 in all 4 corners.

The red eye is only on 1 stamp on each sheet, top row 3rd stamp from the left in a row of 5 sheet of 20, on all 4 sheets

Any help what to do next

Thanks
Bill

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dani20
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15 Oct 2014
08:33:20am
re: Help ID This Color Error

Sorry for being so late to the discussion-just got back from R & R in the woods.The constancy of the color difference is the impressive part. Keep all 4 sheets unbroken, and let's see if there is any further description/finds being reported. Perhaps an inquiry to Linn's might be of value?
Nice find.
Dan C.

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larsdog
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APS #220693 ATA#57179

15 Oct 2014
05:40:04pm
re: Help ID This Color Error

Bill,

Can you check the plate position diagram on each sheet and see if they are the same? If so, what is the position?

Lars

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TuskenRaider
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16 Oct 2014
11:00:32pm
re: Help ID This Color Error

Hi Everyone;

@ David;

How could this be a issue of over inking of the red ink? This is not likely if the other positions on the printing plate are
not getting more red ink. That can only mean that there is something wrong with the printing plate in that position, for
it to accept more red ink than other subjects in other plate positions.

So this had to be an error, and plate defect, when the plate was made that was not noticed by quality control.

Keep on stampin
TuskenRaider

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robatash

04 Nov 2014
09:56:20am
re: Help ID This Color Error

I am sending an inquiry to linns and see what happens. I have searched everywhere for info on this. I recently inquired with an postal employee that has worked there for 30 years and he said he thinks he remembers a recall notice sent out on this particular stamp and he thinks some were sold, not many but he is not sure too long ago and there is no info searchable.
Thanks to everyone for your help

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robatash

02 Dec 2014
11:41:15am
re: Help ID This Color Error

Response from Chad Snee and some feedback from John Hotchner Linn's Stamp News | Scott Publishing Co.

Quote "I am certain that if this were a constant plate flaw on all sheets, or even a large number, it would have been reported long ago. So my thought is that it is a temporary problem that was rapidly noticed and corrected.

This flaw, while interesting wont be listed in scott"

Any Final Thoughts?

Thanks
Bill


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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

02 Dec 2014
11:57:12am
re: Help ID This Color Error

"...Any Final Thoughts? ..."
Thoughts, yes, but not likely to be final.

The response seems like one I received from a German expert after I questioned his determination that a certain very interesting Danzig stamp was false.
" ... Because I do not have any such example in my collection. ..."

Obviously if that were a criteria then after ten or twenty years anything different could never be a new discovery. I sent him my personal opinion, which can't be repeated in polite company and explained what he could do with hie opinion and his bill for $20.00.

BTW, I subsequently sent a different example, #2 of four, to a different auction house and received an opinion that came to;
"... I have never seen such an example but find this item interesting ..." . The stamp sold along with some other Danzig stamps in Germany, and yes, I did pay that bill.

Cjharlie


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Author/Postings
robatash

11 Aug 2014
03:33:18pm

I purchased 4 sheets of the 2001 34c Lucille Ball in 2001 I believe they were sold to me before or at the release date, cant remember long time ago. I put these 4 sheets away in my collection and retired in early 2013 and started going through my collection. I noticed on the sheet, top row center stamp, Lucille ball has a red eye and the rest of the eyes are blue. Every sheet has the red eye in the same place. Any info would be greatly appreciated.Image Not Found

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
11 Aug 2014
03:38:07pm

Auctions

re: Help ID This Color Error

William,

I would venture that this is color freak, not error, with over-saturation of red. Note that our red-head is also extremely flush on the red-eye version, and her hair a tad darker.

To be an error, a color must be absent, and that doesn't seem to be the case here.

For those who collect US EFOs, this might prove interesting.

Hope that helps, and doesn't sadden too much.

David

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

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Bobstamp

11 Aug 2014
03:51:29pm

re: Help ID This Color Error

I thought that if the same error showed up on different sheets, it constituted a constant plate error and therefore worthy of being catalogued. I also think I might be wrong!

Bob

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DaSaintFan

11 Aug 2014
05:10:39pm

re: Help ID This Color Error

I was thinking the same thing as Rob. If the same error appears on multiple sheets, I was also under the assumption it's no longer a color-issue (forget the term now off the top of my head), but an out-and-out variant?


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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
11 Aug 2014
06:48:08pm

re: Help ID This Color Error

I know this is a long shot, but by chance are all 4 panes the same plate position?

Lars

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"Expanding your knowledge faster than your collection can save you a few bucks."

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Ningpo

11 Aug 2014
08:50:29pm

re: Help ID This Color Error

I wonder if consideration might be given to the possibility of a missing colour.

I do not profess to fully understand the whole printing process but the following extract from a description of printing anomalies of the 1962-1973 Annigoni (large format high value) definitive issues of Hong Kong, might give food for thought.....

"The lighter colours, yellow, red and ochre have been recorded completely missing. As these were always superimposed on another colour the result was more of a shade difference; a yellowish or pinkish face and darker hair...... "



I must stress that the above quote does not imply all three lighter colours have been found missing together, but in different combinations.

This image of the six colour separations of the $20 value, might give some idea of how things can go awry during (complex) printing sequences:


Image Not Found

Although the printing technology used in Rob's sheets was almost certainly different, perhaps the same principal applies.

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khj

11 Aug 2014
09:38:02pm

re: Help ID This Color Error

There is no missing color. All four printing colors are present in both stamps. If the blue/cyan were missing from the red-eye stamp, then the "34 USA" would be colorless.

The question is, why is there red in the eye of the red-eye stamp? There was only one plate (#B1111) use for the printing of this stamp

David is correct -- this would not be considered an error, but a printing freak. He is also correct in noting that the red/magenta on the freak stamp is really scattered all over her face (you can even see it in her earring).

Lars asked the key question -- are these all from the same plate position? {and which of the 9 plate positions is it?}

Very interesting stamp!

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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
12 Aug 2014
07:58:48am

Auctions

re: Help ID This Color Error

the key is Kim's reply: very interesting stamp, and it's generated quite a lot of replies.


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robatash

13 Oct 2014
10:24:55am

re: Help ID This Color Error

Sorry for getting back so late was sick for a while

I am not sure of the plate number but all 4 sheets have B111 in all 4 corners.

The red eye is only on 1 stamp on each sheet, top row 3rd stamp from the left in a row of 5 sheet of 20, on all 4 sheets

Any help what to do next

Thanks
Bill

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dani20

15 Oct 2014
08:33:20am

re: Help ID This Color Error

Sorry for being so late to the discussion-just got back from R & R in the woods.The constancy of the color difference is the impressive part. Keep all 4 sheets unbroken, and let's see if there is any further description/finds being reported. Perhaps an inquiry to Linn's might be of value?
Nice find.
Dan C.

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larsdog

APS #220693 ATA#57179
15 Oct 2014
05:40:04pm

re: Help ID This Color Error

Bill,

Can you check the plate position diagram on each sheet and see if they are the same? If so, what is the position?

Lars

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TuskenRaider

16 Oct 2014
11:00:32pm

re: Help ID This Color Error

Hi Everyone;

@ David;

How could this be a issue of over inking of the red ink? This is not likely if the other positions on the printing plate are
not getting more red ink. That can only mean that there is something wrong with the printing plate in that position, for
it to accept more red ink than other subjects in other plate positions.

So this had to be an error, and plate defect, when the plate was made that was not noticed by quality control.

Keep on stampin
TuskenRaider

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likes this post.
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robatash

04 Nov 2014
09:56:20am

re: Help ID This Color Error

I am sending an inquiry to linns and see what happens. I have searched everywhere for info on this. I recently inquired with an postal employee that has worked there for 30 years and he said he thinks he remembers a recall notice sent out on this particular stamp and he thinks some were sold, not many but he is not sure too long ago and there is no info searchable.
Thanks to everyone for your help

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www.pokemontradingca ...
robatash

02 Dec 2014
11:41:15am

re: Help ID This Color Error

Response from Chad Snee and some feedback from John Hotchner Linn's Stamp News | Scott Publishing Co.

Quote "I am certain that if this were a constant plate flaw on all sheets, or even a large number, it would have been reported long ago. So my thought is that it is a temporary problem that was rapidly noticed and corrected.

This flaw, while interesting wont be listed in scott"

Any Final Thoughts?

Thanks
Bill


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www.pokemontradingca ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
02 Dec 2014
11:57:12am

re: Help ID This Color Error

"...Any Final Thoughts? ..."
Thoughts, yes, but not likely to be final.

The response seems like one I received from a German expert after I questioned his determination that a certain very interesting Danzig stamp was false.
" ... Because I do not have any such example in my collection. ..."

Obviously if that were a criteria then after ten or twenty years anything different could never be a new discovery. I sent him my personal opinion, which can't be repeated in polite company and explained what he could do with hie opinion and his bill for $20.00.

BTW, I subsequently sent a different example, #2 of four, to a different auction house and received an opinion that came to;
"... I have never seen such an example but find this item interesting ..." . The stamp sold along with some other Danzig stamps in Germany, and yes, I did pay that bill.

Cjharlie


Like
Login to Like
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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
        

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