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Sales, Swaps, Auction & Approvals/Auction Disc. : Foreign orders

 

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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

12 Oct 2014
09:15:25pm
Not quite sure what to do here. I specifically state that I will not ship outside the United States. There are many reasons.
A Canadian member just ordered around 40 stamps and 6 covers from me - these cannot just be placed in an envelope, they require a hard pack.
What can I do - I will not stand in line for half an hour to find out how much the package is going to cost to ship, then make out the invoice, and then spend another half hour in line to send it after payment arrives. Photo mailers are considered non-machinable and incur a hefty surcharge.
How is the member going to pay me. I will not open up Paypal to allow for foreign payments.
If I cancel the order is there any way to put those items back for sale or do I have to wait until I make new books?
Thanks for any help you can give - I need to know so that I can get back to the member and try to figure out what the best thing to do is. I am retired Federal and will not circumvent customs procedures - the potential penalties are too great. Strict reading of customs and postal regulations is that ANYTHING that is not a document must be accompanied by a customs form - our local postmaster impressed that on me one day.
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BobbyBarnhart
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They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin

12 Oct 2014
09:48:03pm
re: Foreign orders

I looked at your approvals and auction listing and you conspicuously state that you ship within the USA only. So I guess you have 2 choices: (1) cancel the transaction with an explanation to the buyer (and, yes, you will need to list the auction items anew and put the stamps either onto a new page in an existing book or create a new book); or, (2) complete the sale and notify the buyer that this is a one time deal and that she shouldn't buy from you again as you do not normally ship to Canada.

Postage and shipping charges: I have never had a problem with estimating the charges using the USPS website (CLICK HERE).

Customs forms to Canada: I know nothing about these. I ship to Canada all the time and never use them. Of course, all my shipments have minimal value, but then it appears yours does also.

Hope this helps.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.net
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In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

12 Oct 2014
10:10:25pm
re: Foreign orders

Thanks Bobby,

Love and live Ben's saying.

I thought I had made it fairly visible and upfront. The basic problem is that even if it fit in a regular envelope, which with 6 covers it won't, it technically requires a customs form. Since it is a hard mailer I am not comfortable trying to second guess cost to Canada - it's $2.40 here in the states to ship it next door (as opposed to 70 cents for a soft 6X9 mailer).

Lines at our post office to ask questions and get rates, and to mail any stamped items with a customs form, are often 15 to 20 minutes long. Doesn't sound like much if you are young - at my age it becomes a bit more of a challenge.

Thanks again,

Carol

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

12 Oct 2014
10:39:16pm
re: Foreign orders

Wow! Ok, I hope you don't take this the wrong way - but posting from the US to Canada is not a big deal. And the easiest thing for anyone here who is selling - go to the store and buy a food scale and then get yourselves some padded envelopes - all you need is a piece of cardboard from a Kleenex box inside to keep a padded envelope from bending. Put it on the scale, get the weight and dimensions of the envelope and voila - you have the info to input into USPS. Then just tell the buyer and chances are, if you are unsure, the buyer will be more than happy to tack on an extra bit of money to offset any errors. If you need to fill out a customs form - it's not hard or much involved, just write in stamps and put whatever value the person paid.

I realise that for some it's difficult to get out to the post office - I sure know I can't get there too well in my chair in bad weather, but if you do that ahead of time at home, you've already got your money and then it's just a matter of filling out the address and "stamps" on the customs form.

Anything else will fit into a regular envelope.

Now, I admit, I'm biased because I'm sitting here on the other side of the border. But I've had a couple fellas here on SOR send me hundreds of stamps in an envelope. No need for customs forms.

Bobby has sent me numerous things and not just a few stamps and he's never had any trouble.

But, it's all up to the individuals. I think you're selling yourself short if you close your border of selling particularly when it's between Canada and US.

Kelly

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

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Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

12 Oct 2014
11:36:30pm
re: Foreign orders

Actually I have a postal scale and have been shipping things since 1985 so I do know the drill. Use of a photo mailer when sending multiple covers is my personal choice because it avoids damage. The new non-mailable surcharge does make it expensive.

As to customs forms it is a decision each individual has to make. I spent 20 years working for the Federal government (Small Business Administration) and when our postmaster made such a big deal about a small item I was sending to Canada in a hard mailer to a friend (it was a gift - value under $5) I checked with our legal department. If it isn't a printed document of no value it technically requires a form - gift, sample, whatever.

Yes, the chances are you can probably ignore the law all your life with no problems. The reality of being a Federal employee is that if you do get caught it is going to create problems. The fact that our postmaster has already called it to my attention is also a factor.

I guess I just like to keep things simple....

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

12 Oct 2014
11:56:27pm
re: Foreign orders

True, here - anything that is not no 8 or 10 envelope (letter size) requires a customs form but I never really give it much thought - just fill out the thing and slap it on. I put them in the bubble wrap envelope with a good stiffener, throw it on the scale and measure it - put it through Canada Post online calculator with location and generally speaking it always comes out accurate within a few cents. I presume what you mean by hard mailer is the cardboard envelopes? I don't use them often but from what I hear they're easier to calculate than the bubble wrap ones.

I guess you guys have just got some extra charges or things that I'm unaware of. Granted postage costs have jumped a lot in the past year - the downfall of selling or trading is the postal costs.

Anywho, like I said, no offense intended.

Kelly

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Suzanne

13 Oct 2014
12:56:45am
re: Foreign orders

"True, here - anything that is not no 8 or 10 envelope (letter size) requires a customs form "



I use the brown 5 x 7 envelopes and the bubble envelopes frequently. I used to go to the post office and not one time did I ever have to put a customs label on any of them. And they were being sent in various places all over the USA, England, other foreign countries. I told them at the post office they were stamps, or at times greeting cards and other paper crafts from another group that I belong to. Didn't matter I never needed a customs sticker. Now I just weigh it and stick on the postage and put it in the mail. I've sent dozens of envelopes and they always get where they are going and never any trouble.

I also got two packets a few months ago from the states. There was one that only had a single cover in it, but the other one had 21 covers and a few small notes. No customs sticker on either one of them. They were both sent in bubble envelopes. And the one that had the 21 covers in it, had been taken to the post office, because the man I bought them from, trusted me enough to just go ahead and mail them and then he told me what I owed him for the postage after he had them weighed and measured. They came from Ohio.

Well just my 2 cents.
Bye for now.
Suzanne
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londonbus1
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13 Oct 2014
01:26:51am
re: Foreign orders

I get mail from the USA all the time and almost never see a customs form. And most of the mail comes in ordinary envelopes like the ones you would send to your Aunt living in the next town !

What a story !

If Israel post had such restictions I would give up selling !!

Londonbus1 Surprise

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Poodle_Mum
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A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).

13 Oct 2014
01:52:04am
re: Foreign orders

I think it might depend on individual post offices. I don't really care about filling out the customs form if needed. Usually only need it though if there is "bulk" in the package.

Anywho, to each his/her own, what they decide as to how to they send things and where they choose to send things to.

Rock On

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.com/
roy
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BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories

13 Oct 2014
09:01:46am
re: Foreign orders

As a Canadian member, I find it unfortunate that your circumstances do not allow you to ship outside the USA, especially since you seem to have above-average material on offer. However, that, and all the advice on how to expand your shipping horizons is really beside the point.

You asked what to do about THIS order. You are absolutely entitled to determine your own shipping terms. It is incumbent on buyers to read those terms. Bobby has it correct: a) cancel the order or b) take pity and do it this once.

Of those two, I would recommend a) cancel the order. Unfortunately, as has already been pointed out, there is no mechanism to return "sold" items back to stock. Programming "tweaks" like that are actually very complex and take a great many man-hours to implement - usually more on the part of the programmer than would be saved by the users in simply relisting the stamps. Therefore, while such programming projects are doable, they fall to the bottom of a (usually) lengthy priority list.

Since HTML code is allowed in your "Terms", I am sending you privately some code to make your "USA only" stand out. The downside is that items using two different "Terms" (even if it involves a change in appearance, not substance) can no longer be combined on the same invoice. You will have to issue two invoices to the same buyer in this case. (Please correct me if this has been changed. My information may be a tad out of date).

Roy

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

13 Oct 2014
10:37:51am
re: Foreign orders

"I think it might depend on individual post offices."



That is incorrect. The United States Postal Service policies apply to every post office in the United States. The problem is that too many postal employees do not know their policies.

As stated on the instruction sheet (Customs Declaration Form CN22), the customs form on mail being posted on foreign-bound mail from the United States is required if ANY of the following:

- the mailpiece weighs 16 ounces or more
- the mailpiece exceeds 3/4 inch in thickness (it won't take long for covers to reach that thickness); or
- the mailpiece contains dutiable goods

Also, the customs form must be used on first-class mail international packages (note that using envelopes with bubble wrap inside or the foam protection makes it a package), priority mail international boxes, and a few other mailing pieces not normally used in what would be sold from SOR.

I use the customs form on mail that I send to a country that has a postal service that is iffy in its deliveries, or contains about $5 or more merchandise. The form gets scanned in at the post office and provides tracking.

It's not that difficult to ship to foreign destinations, and charging additional shipping to cover the added costs is acceptable and understood by buyers. Of course it is the seller's choice of how to conduct business.
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amsd
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Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads

13 Oct 2014
10:40:52am
re: Foreign orders

all correct and current Roy

I agree with you and Bobby.... Seller has the right to follow his own rules and cancel a sale that would violate his own terms.

David, the auctioneer

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alyn
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webmaster for the ISWSC http://iswsc.org and ATA http://www.americantopicalassn.org

14 Oct 2014
07:32:18am
re: Foreign orders

Just wondering, but would it be feasible to add a field to a lisitng that denotes domestic sales only? Perhaps a radio box or checkbox. When the condition is true, that specific listing would not be visible to people who have a mailing address with a country that doesn't match the sellers, or becomes a searchable condition.

Alyn

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michael78651
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Moderator, MT Member

14 Oct 2014
01:10:35pm
re: Foreign orders

That would probably have limited effect since many members do not enter their address in the member information section. Might be better to permit sellers to proactively select if they will ship out of their respective country. Have to remember that we have members from over 80 countries. Many of them sell as well. Can't be USA-centric here.

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alyn
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webmaster for the ISWSC http://iswsc.org and ATA http://www.americantopicalassn.org

15 Oct 2014
08:07:32am
re: Foreign orders

"That would probably have limited effect since many members do not enter their address in the member information section. Might be better to permit sellers to proactively select if they will ship out of their respective country. Have to remember that we have members from over 80 countries. Many of them sell as well. Can't be USA-centric here."



My understanding, altleast when I signed up is that a proper address must be provided for membership, the individual member can select to hide this information from other members. I see this suggestion as be the opposite of "USA-centric", should any seller choose to only ship within their own country, they select that option. This way the membership outside of that area cannot select the item and we avoid the issue.

Alyn


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15 Oct 2014
01:32:03pm
re: Foreign orders

Alyn, if the system can be modified to work like that, I think you have a good idea.

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16 Oct 2014
02:03:02pm
re: Foreign orders

Cancel the order and send a polite message as to why.
Re-list the items on another page.


Done

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Author/Postings
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

12 Oct 2014
09:15:25pm

Not quite sure what to do here. I specifically state that I will not ship outside the United States. There are many reasons.
A Canadian member just ordered around 40 stamps and 6 covers from me - these cannot just be placed in an envelope, they require a hard pack.
What can I do - I will not stand in line for half an hour to find out how much the package is going to cost to ship, then make out the invoice, and then spend another half hour in line to send it after payment arrives. Photo mailers are considered non-machinable and incur a hefty surcharge.
How is the member going to pay me. I will not open up Paypal to allow for foreign payments.
If I cancel the order is there any way to put those items back for sale or do I have to wait until I make new books?
Thanks for any help you can give - I need to know so that I can get back to the member and try to figure out what the best thing to do is. I am retired Federal and will not circumvent customs procedures - the potential penalties are too great. Strict reading of customs and postal regulations is that ANYTHING that is not a document must be accompanied by a customs form - our local postmaster impressed that on me one day.

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www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -Benjamin Franklin
12 Oct 2014
09:48:03pm

re: Foreign orders

I looked at your approvals and auction listing and you conspicuously state that you ship within the USA only. So I guess you have 2 choices: (1) cancel the transaction with an explanation to the buyer (and, yes, you will need to list the auction items anew and put the stamps either onto a new page in an existing book or create a new book); or, (2) complete the sale and notify the buyer that this is a one time deal and that she shouldn't buy from you again as you do not normally ship to Canada.

Postage and shipping charges: I have never had a problem with estimating the charges using the USPS website (CLICK HERE).

Customs forms to Canada: I know nothing about these. I ship to Canada all the time and never use them. Of course, all my shipments have minimal value, but then it appears yours does also.

Hope this helps.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke"

www.bobbybarnhart.ne ...
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

12 Oct 2014
10:10:25pm

re: Foreign orders

Thanks Bobby,

Love and live Ben's saying.

I thought I had made it fairly visible and upfront. The basic problem is that even if it fit in a regular envelope, which with 6 covers it won't, it technically requires a customs form. Since it is a hard mailer I am not comfortable trying to second guess cost to Canada - it's $2.40 here in the states to ship it next door (as opposed to 70 cents for a soft 6X9 mailer).

Lines at our post office to ask questions and get rates, and to mail any stamped items with a customs form, are often 15 to 20 minutes long. Doesn't sound like much if you are young - at my age it becomes a bit more of a challenge.

Thanks again,

Carol

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www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Oct 2014
10:39:16pm

re: Foreign orders

Wow! Ok, I hope you don't take this the wrong way - but posting from the US to Canada is not a big deal. And the easiest thing for anyone here who is selling - go to the store and buy a food scale and then get yourselves some padded envelopes - all you need is a piece of cardboard from a Kleenex box inside to keep a padded envelope from bending. Put it on the scale, get the weight and dimensions of the envelope and voila - you have the info to input into USPS. Then just tell the buyer and chances are, if you are unsure, the buyer will be more than happy to tack on an extra bit of money to offset any errors. If you need to fill out a customs form - it's not hard or much involved, just write in stamps and put whatever value the person paid.

I realise that for some it's difficult to get out to the post office - I sure know I can't get there too well in my chair in bad weather, but if you do that ahead of time at home, you've already got your money and then it's just a matter of filling out the address and "stamps" on the customs form.

Anything else will fit into a regular envelope.

Now, I admit, I'm biased because I'm sitting here on the other side of the border. But I've had a couple fellas here on SOR send me hundreds of stamps in an envelope. No need for customs forms.

Bobby has sent me numerous things and not just a few stamps and he's never had any trouble.

But, it's all up to the individuals. I think you're selling yourself short if you close your border of selling particularly when it's between Canada and US.

Kelly

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
Webpaper

In loving memory of Carol, my wife for 52 years.

12 Oct 2014
11:36:30pm

re: Foreign orders

Actually I have a postal scale and have been shipping things since 1985 so I do know the drill. Use of a photo mailer when sending multiple covers is my personal choice because it avoids damage. The new non-mailable surcharge does make it expensive.

As to customs forms it is a decision each individual has to make. I spent 20 years working for the Federal government (Small Business Administration) and when our postmaster made such a big deal about a small item I was sending to Canada in a hard mailer to a friend (it was a gift - value under $5) I checked with our legal department. If it isn't a printed document of no value it technically requires a form - gift, sample, whatever.

Yes, the chances are you can probably ignore the law all your life with no problems. The reality of being a Federal employee is that if you do get caught it is going to create problems. The fact that our postmaster has already called it to my attention is also a factor.

I guess I just like to keep things simple....

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
12 Oct 2014
11:56:27pm

re: Foreign orders

True, here - anything that is not no 8 or 10 envelope (letter size) requires a customs form but I never really give it much thought - just fill out the thing and slap it on. I put them in the bubble wrap envelope with a good stiffener, throw it on the scale and measure it - put it through Canada Post online calculator with location and generally speaking it always comes out accurate within a few cents. I presume what you mean by hard mailer is the cardboard envelopes? I don't use them often but from what I hear they're easier to calculate than the bubble wrap ones.

I guess you guys have just got some extra charges or things that I'm unaware of. Granted postage costs have jumped a lot in the past year - the downfall of selling or trading is the postal costs.

Anywho, like I said, no offense intended.

Kelly

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"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...
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doodles69ca

Suzanne
13 Oct 2014
12:56:45am

re: Foreign orders

"True, here - anything that is not no 8 or 10 envelope (letter size) requires a customs form "



I use the brown 5 x 7 envelopes and the bubble envelopes frequently. I used to go to the post office and not one time did I ever have to put a customs label on any of them. And they were being sent in various places all over the USA, England, other foreign countries. I told them at the post office they were stamps, or at times greeting cards and other paper crafts from another group that I belong to. Didn't matter I never needed a customs sticker. Now I just weigh it and stick on the postage and put it in the mail. I've sent dozens of envelopes and they always get where they are going and never any trouble.

I also got two packets a few months ago from the states. There was one that only had a single cover in it, but the other one had 21 covers and a few small notes. No customs sticker on either one of them. They were both sent in bubble envelopes. And the one that had the 21 covers in it, had been taken to the post office, because the man I bought them from, trusted me enough to just go ahead and mail them and then he told me what I owed him for the postage after he had them weighed and measured. They came from Ohio.

Well just my 2 cents.
Bye for now.
Suzanne
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londonbus1

13 Oct 2014
01:26:51am

re: Foreign orders

I get mail from the USA all the time and almost never see a customs form. And most of the mail comes in ordinary envelopes like the ones you would send to your Aunt living in the next town !

What a story !

If Israel post had such restictions I would give up selling !!

Londonbus1 Surprise

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Login to Like
this post

A Service Dog gives a person with a disability independence. Never approach, distract or pet a working dog, especially when (s)he is in harness. Never be afraid to ask questions to the handler (parent).
13 Oct 2014
01:52:04am

re: Foreign orders

I think it might depend on individual post offices. I don't really care about filling out the customs form if needed. Usually only need it though if there is "bulk" in the package.

Anywho, to each his/her own, what they decide as to how to they send things and where they choose to send things to.

Rock On

Like
Login to Like
this post

"Let's find a cure for Still's Disease, Breast Cancer and Canine Addison's Disease. We CAN find a cure and save lives!!"

emmettslegacy.webs.c ...

BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50 - Easy browsing 500 categories
13 Oct 2014
09:01:46am

re: Foreign orders

As a Canadian member, I find it unfortunate that your circumstances do not allow you to ship outside the USA, especially since you seem to have above-average material on offer. However, that, and all the advice on how to expand your shipping horizons is really beside the point.

You asked what to do about THIS order. You are absolutely entitled to determine your own shipping terms. It is incumbent on buyers to read those terms. Bobby has it correct: a) cancel the order or b) take pity and do it this once.

Of those two, I would recommend a) cancel the order. Unfortunately, as has already been pointed out, there is no mechanism to return "sold" items back to stock. Programming "tweaks" like that are actually very complex and take a great many man-hours to implement - usually more on the part of the programmer than would be saved by the users in simply relisting the stamps. Therefore, while such programming projects are doable, they fall to the bottom of a (usually) lengthy priority list.

Since HTML code is allowed in your "Terms", I am sending you privately some code to make your "USA only" stand out. The downside is that items using two different "Terms" (even if it involves a change in appearance, not substance) can no longer be combined on the same invoice. You will have to issue two invoices to the same buyer in this case. (Please correct me if this has been changed. My information may be a tad out of date).

Roy

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"BuckaCover.com - 80,000 covers priced 60c to $1.50- we added 10,000 new covers on January 12. If you like covers there has to be something for you!"

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
13 Oct 2014
10:37:51am

re: Foreign orders

"I think it might depend on individual post offices."



That is incorrect. The United States Postal Service policies apply to every post office in the United States. The problem is that too many postal employees do not know their policies.

As stated on the instruction sheet (Customs Declaration Form CN22), the customs form on mail being posted on foreign-bound mail from the United States is required if ANY of the following:

- the mailpiece weighs 16 ounces or more
- the mailpiece exceeds 3/4 inch in thickness (it won't take long for covers to reach that thickness); or
- the mailpiece contains dutiable goods

Also, the customs form must be used on first-class mail international packages (note that using envelopes with bubble wrap inside or the foam protection makes it a package), priority mail international boxes, and a few other mailing pieces not normally used in what would be sold from SOR.

I use the customs form on mail that I send to a country that has a postal service that is iffy in its deliveries, or contains about $5 or more merchandise. The form gets scanned in at the post office and provides tracking.

It's not that difficult to ship to foreign destinations, and charging additional shipping to cover the added costs is acceptable and understood by buyers. Of course it is the seller's choice of how to conduct business.
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amsd

Editor, Seal News; contributor, JuicyHeads
13 Oct 2014
10:40:52am

re: Foreign orders

all correct and current Roy

I agree with you and Bobby.... Seller has the right to follow his own rules and cancel a sale that would violate his own terms.

David, the auctioneer

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"Save the USPS, buy stamps; save the hobby, use commemoratives"

juicyheads.com/link. ...

webmaster for the ISWSC http://iswsc.org and ATA http://www.americantopicalassn.org
14 Oct 2014
07:32:18am

re: Foreign orders

Just wondering, but would it be feasible to add a field to a lisitng that denotes domestic sales only? Perhaps a radio box or checkbox. When the condition is true, that specific listing would not be visible to people who have a mailing address with a country that doesn't match the sellers, or becomes a searchable condition.

Alyn

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michael78651

Moderator, MT Member
14 Oct 2014
01:10:35pm

re: Foreign orders

That would probably have limited effect since many members do not enter their address in the member information section. Might be better to permit sellers to proactively select if they will ship out of their respective country. Have to remember that we have members from over 80 countries. Many of them sell as well. Can't be USA-centric here.

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15 Oct 2014
08:07:32am

re: Foreign orders

"That would probably have limited effect since many members do not enter their address in the member information section. Might be better to permit sellers to proactively select if they will ship out of their respective country. Have to remember that we have members from over 80 countries. Many of them sell as well. Can't be USA-centric here."



My understanding, altleast when I signed up is that a proper address must be provided for membership, the individual member can select to hide this information from other members. I see this suggestion as be the opposite of "USA-centric", should any seller choose to only ship within their own country, they select that option. This way the membership outside of that area cannot select the item and we avoid the issue.

Alyn


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michael78651

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15 Oct 2014
01:32:03pm

re: Foreign orders

Alyn, if the system can be modified to work like that, I think you have a good idea.

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16 Oct 2014
02:03:02pm

re: Foreign orders

Cancel the order and send a polite message as to why.
Re-list the items on another page.


Done

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