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General Philatelic/Identify This? : Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

 

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janeflowers

08 Aug 2014
01:32:51am
I tried to identify and verify the information on this numbered set of stamps. I could find no complete sets on the sheet like this one online. I did find reference to them in one chat room where someone had mentioned the claim that these stamps had any value was a load of nonsence. Can anyone advise if these are worth hanging onto or not?Image Not FoundImage Not Found
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ThePhilatelist

Wish I was Engraved!

08 Aug 2014
02:11:06am
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

"I could find no complete sets on the sheet like this one online."


The stamps in the scan were unclear, so a simple search led me to Overprinted Stamps.

"Can anyone advise if these are worth hanging onto or not?"


I hate to discuss "monetary" value of stamps (and I am assuming you are asking that). The pamphlet says that Stanley Gibbons lists it, so why not check it out? Michel might be a good resource here as well.


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janeflowers

08 Aug 2014
02:22:15am
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

Thanks for your input and for the place where I can find these. This will help a lot. I am not really asking a monetary value. I am trying to sort out a very diverse stamp collection and am new to this. If there is anything worth hanging onto I would like to keep it so I can pass this collection on to my Grandson. However it would be very costly to send off a huge collection to France where he lives so I really don't wish to fill up boxes with anything that is not collectable as such, or which is not worth hanging onto. I appreciate that this is not a place to ask monetary values.

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ThePhilatelist

Wish I was Engraved!

08 Aug 2014
03:43:07am
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

"I am trying to sort out a very diverse stamp collection and am new to this."



I classify stamps like these as Cinderellas - often issued by bogus governments and never seeing any real postal use. That the pamphlet refers to Stanley Gibbons (SG) was a surprise for me; at the same time the reference was for the un-overprinted ones. Hopefully SG has a footnote reference there. A cursory look through Scott for Yugoslavia yielded no reference even to the un-overprinted variety.

I have no love for cinderellas or other stamps that had no postal validity or never had a chance for real use (that they were "prepared for use" has no significance for me). But one person's junk is another person's gem.

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bamra1

08 Aug 2014
05:19:11am
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

Are you sitting comfortably?

In 1941, in the face of the Nazi invasion of Yugoslavia, King Petar, his Prime Minister Subacic, and several of his ministers and wealthy supporters, fled Yugoslavia and with the approval of the British government set up a Government in Exile in London.

A number of Yugoslav sailors joined the British Merchant Navy to allow British sailors to go into military service. The GiE produced a few stamps, including the (unoverprinted) Patriot series, which could be used by these seamen. These were essentially propaganda to promote the GiE; but the British Government allowed them postal validity (below - the cancel reads 'Post of the Merchant Navy of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia'; this one is essentially philatelic, as nearly all were.)
Image Not Found
Meanwhile, back in Yugoslavia the King's supporters who had remained behind to fight in the resistance, the Chetniks, were losing popularity both at home and amongst the Allies, compared to the Partisans. The Chetniks were very Serb-oriented, militarily inept and in many cases deeply corrupt. When the Allies discovered the Chetniks were selling to the enemy the weapons they were being sent, they transferred most of their support to the republican Partisans.

In Oct 1944 Tito's Partisans recaptured Belgrade and it was decided to set up a coalition government from scratch in Yugoslavia rather than calling back the GiE to rule. The GiE split over this. Subacic and some of the moderates returned to Yugoslavia and were given seats in the coalition, leaving behind the King and the extreme right wing of his supporters who refused to participate - and also leaving behind the remaining supply of the stamps.

In 1945 the rump of the GiE overprinted the remaining stamps. There were 3 sets issued:
1) the set you have - 1945
2) an airmail set with 1945 and a black or red aeroplane (below)
3) a de luxe airmail set with 1945 and a gold aeroplane.
Image Not Found
These probably served both a fund-raising purpose and a propaganda one. In the West we tend to think of 1945 as Victory in the War year; but in Yugoslavia they tend to concentrate on 1944 - Liberation of Yugoslavia. In my opinion the significance of 1945 here is that in Nov 1945 the country became a republic instead of a monarchy. I think the 1945 issues were the King saying 'Hey, folks. I'm still here, you know!'

I have no doubt that like most GiEs they announced at the time of issue that just as soon as they regained power the stamps would be valid. Of course, it never happened.

The gold aircraft are genuinely scare. I wouldn't be surprised at a set of those going for £100. The rest are worth very little in money. But as a story for your grandson ....?

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Milco
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11 Oct 2014
04:09:48pm
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

As main set is from 1943, Michel catalog have it under Block 2, (main set is without overprint), collectors in Serbia call it "London issue" because it is printed in London by Waterlow & Sons, m/s sheet commemorate 25 year of Yugoslavia, than come set overprinted "1945" (March 1945) and another set overprinted for Air-Mail use, there is airplane in red, black and gold color.

This postage stamp was obligatory on all mail that Gov't in Exile use, from London offices, and transported by ships, plane.

Stamp are NOT used inside Yugoslavia at the time!

Value? All depend on market, but as I know and have it few time offered, market value are not something special, for m/s in perfect condition can reach near 50-60$, and all option for basic set can go from 5 to 50$, again, all depend on who sell and who buy!

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

12 Oct 2014
03:58:53am
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

My dated Minkus catalog, which often lists strange items not found in Scott, lists the basic set and explains about the London "Government in exile.
As ton the overprints of a plane in the UL corner or the "1945" date that are on the scan shown above and states that they were never issued.It also mentions that there was a souvenir sheet of #s 602 to 607. All had a marginal catalog listing then.

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
philb
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12 Oct 2014
04:35:41pm

Auctions
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

They were quite common mint in approval packets during the 1950's.

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cardstamp
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17 Mar 2017
01:07:49pm

Approvals
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

I hate to re-open a very very old discussion but I was doing an internet google search on these stamps and I was surprised that this post came up in my search results. I recently started breaking down an old Yugoslavia collection and although I have seen the stamps with the back and red plane overprint - I had never seen the gold ones before. I found someone selling this set on EBAY for $220.00 and I have no idea if that is reasonable. Do any of the catalogs other than Scott give any idea of the catalog value for this set ? I am not sure what I am going to do with them - they certainly can not go into an approval book I am putting together for Yugoslavia. Thanks, SteveImage Not Found

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51Studebaker
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Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't

17 Mar 2017
01:49:09pm
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

There was a 'blocks of four' set that sold with a fair amount of bids in December on eBay (item number 361850842969) for $195(US).
Link
Don

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cardstamp
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17 Mar 2017
05:57:36pm

Approvals
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

Thanks for the Ebay Information. As I said I saw someone currently selling a set of singles for $220.00 - So if these blocks of 4 sold for $195.00 then I would say the $220 is overpriced. The ones I have are "Mint Hinged" - so that in itself lowers the value. I may try an auction here first before trying Ebay or Hipstamp - although I doubt they would sell here. I almost thru them into an approval book - that would have been a mistake !
Steve

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Milco
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19 Dec 2017
04:22:15pm
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

...probably You will be in surprise, but this set is little bit very hard to find on open market in Belgrade or Novi Sad (both city have an very active Philatelic Club).

Image Not Found
Image Not Found


In mnh condition, last information what I have (months back when I was in Belgrade), there was two sets available (in club meeting), and asked price was full Michel catalog + 20% premium.

best regards
Miloje

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cdj1122
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Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..

21 Dec 2017
01:57:06pm
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

" ... two sets available (in club meeting),
and asked price was full Michel catalog + 20% premium. ..."


That begs the questions;
"What is, or was, the Michel catalog price."
and,
"Did either one sell ?"

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".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Milco
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03 Mar 2018
05:10:16pm
re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

cdj1122:"...That begs the questions;
"What is, or was, the Michel catalog price."
and,
"Did either one sell ?"..."
----------------------------------------------------------
Michel catalog # 445/450 (no overprint), catalog value, mnh, = 13.00 euros,
Michel catalog # Block 2, mnh = 80.00 euro,
Michel catalog # overprint "1945":
just mentioned, but not number listing,
local catalog value = 10.00 euro,
Michel catalog # overprint with airplane red and black:
just mentioned, but no catalog listing,
local catalog value = 15.00 euro,
Michel catalog # overprint with airplane in gold:
local catalog value = 70.00 euro.

....as I'm informed, two offered in local club sold very quickly, my personal experience: sold this two sets (shown) - go to collector that specialize in Yugoslavia, for 35.00 euro + postage cost.

So, all depend what person want to achieve!
Every specialized collection for this country, will need this items as it is some kind of history, because stamps are printed by Gov't in exile, popularly named as "London Issue".



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Author/Postings
janeflowers

08 Aug 2014
01:32:51am

I tried to identify and verify the information on this numbered set of stamps. I could find no complete sets on the sheet like this one online. I did find reference to them in one chat room where someone had mentioned the claim that these stamps had any value was a load of nonsence. Can anyone advise if these are worth hanging onto or not?Image Not FoundImage Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post
ThePhilatelist

Wish I was Engraved!

08 Aug 2014
02:11:06am

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

"I could find no complete sets on the sheet like this one online."


The stamps in the scan were unclear, so a simple search led me to Overprinted Stamps.

"Can anyone advise if these are worth hanging onto or not?"


I hate to discuss "monetary" value of stamps (and I am assuming you are asking that). The pamphlet says that Stanley Gibbons lists it, so why not check it out? Michel might be a good resource here as well.


Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.
janeflowers

08 Aug 2014
02:22:15am

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

Thanks for your input and for the place where I can find these. This will help a lot. I am not really asking a monetary value. I am trying to sort out a very diverse stamp collection and am new to this. If there is anything worth hanging onto I would like to keep it so I can pass this collection on to my Grandson. However it would be very costly to send off a huge collection to France where he lives so I really don't wish to fill up boxes with anything that is not collectable as such, or which is not worth hanging onto. I appreciate that this is not a place to ask monetary values.

Like
Login to Like
this post
ThePhilatelist

Wish I was Engraved!

08 Aug 2014
03:43:07am

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

"I am trying to sort out a very diverse stamp collection and am new to this."



I classify stamps like these as Cinderellas - often issued by bogus governments and never seeing any real postal use. That the pamphlet refers to Stanley Gibbons (SG) was a surprise for me; at the same time the reference was for the un-overprinted ones. Hopefully SG has a footnote reference there. A cursory look through Scott for Yugoslavia yielded no reference even to the un-overprinted variety.

I have no love for cinderellas or other stamps that had no postal validity or never had a chance for real use (that they were "prepared for use" has no significance for me). But one person's junk is another person's gem.

Like
Login to Like
this post
bamra1

08 Aug 2014
05:19:11am

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

Are you sitting comfortably?

In 1941, in the face of the Nazi invasion of Yugoslavia, King Petar, his Prime Minister Subacic, and several of his ministers and wealthy supporters, fled Yugoslavia and with the approval of the British government set up a Government in Exile in London.

A number of Yugoslav sailors joined the British Merchant Navy to allow British sailors to go into military service. The GiE produced a few stamps, including the (unoverprinted) Patriot series, which could be used by these seamen. These were essentially propaganda to promote the GiE; but the British Government allowed them postal validity (below - the cancel reads 'Post of the Merchant Navy of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia'; this one is essentially philatelic, as nearly all were.)
Image Not Found
Meanwhile, back in Yugoslavia the King's supporters who had remained behind to fight in the resistance, the Chetniks, were losing popularity both at home and amongst the Allies, compared to the Partisans. The Chetniks were very Serb-oriented, militarily inept and in many cases deeply corrupt. When the Allies discovered the Chetniks were selling to the enemy the weapons they were being sent, they transferred most of their support to the republican Partisans.

In Oct 1944 Tito's Partisans recaptured Belgrade and it was decided to set up a coalition government from scratch in Yugoslavia rather than calling back the GiE to rule. The GiE split over this. Subacic and some of the moderates returned to Yugoslavia and were given seats in the coalition, leaving behind the King and the extreme right wing of his supporters who refused to participate - and also leaving behind the remaining supply of the stamps.

In 1945 the rump of the GiE overprinted the remaining stamps. There were 3 sets issued:
1) the set you have - 1945
2) an airmail set with 1945 and a black or red aeroplane (below)
3) a de luxe airmail set with 1945 and a gold aeroplane.
Image Not Found
These probably served both a fund-raising purpose and a propaganda one. In the West we tend to think of 1945 as Victory in the War year; but in Yugoslavia they tend to concentrate on 1944 - Liberation of Yugoslavia. In my opinion the significance of 1945 here is that in Nov 1945 the country became a republic instead of a monarchy. I think the 1945 issues were the King saying 'Hey, folks. I'm still here, you know!'

I have no doubt that like most GiEs they announced at the time of issue that just as soon as they regained power the stamps would be valid. Of course, it never happened.

The gold aircraft are genuinely scare. I wouldn't be surprised at a set of those going for £100. The rest are worth very little in money. But as a story for your grandson ....?

Like 
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Milco

11 Oct 2014
04:09:48pm

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

As main set is from 1943, Michel catalog have it under Block 2, (main set is without overprint), collectors in Serbia call it "London issue" because it is printed in London by Waterlow & Sons, m/s sheet commemorate 25 year of Yugoslavia, than come set overprinted "1945" (March 1945) and another set overprinted for Air-Mail use, there is airplane in red, black and gold color.

This postage stamp was obligatory on all mail that Gov't in Exile use, from London offices, and transported by ships, plane.

Stamp are NOT used inside Yugoslavia at the time!

Value? All depend on market, but as I know and have it few time offered, market value are not something special, for m/s in perfect condition can reach near 50-60$, and all option for basic set can go from 5 to 50$, again, all depend on who sell and who buy!

Like
Login to Like
this post

stampmusthave.blogsp ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
12 Oct 2014
03:58:53am

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

My dated Minkus catalog, which often lists strange items not found in Scott, lists the basic set and explains about the London "Government in exile.
As ton the overprints of a plane in the UL corner or the "1945" date that are on the scan shown above and states that they were never issued.It also mentions that there was a souvenir sheet of #s 602 to 607. All had a marginal catalog listing then.

Like
Login to Like
this post

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
philb

12 Oct 2014
04:35:41pm

Auctions

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

They were quite common mint in approval packets during the 1950's.

Like
Login to Like
this post

"And every hair is measured like every grain of sand"
Members Picture
cardstamp

17 Mar 2017
01:07:49pm

Approvals

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

I hate to re-open a very very old discussion but I was doing an internet google search on these stamps and I was surprised that this post came up in my search results. I recently started breaking down an old Yugoslavia collection and although I have seen the stamps with the back and red plane overprint - I had never seen the gold ones before. I found someone selling this set on EBAY for $220.00 and I have no idea if that is reasonable. Do any of the catalogs other than Scott give any idea of the catalog value for this set ? I am not sure what I am going to do with them - they certainly can not go into an approval book I am putting together for Yugoslavia. Thanks, SteveImage Not Found

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
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51Studebaker

Dialysis, damned if you do...dead if you don't
17 Mar 2017
01:49:09pm

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

There was a 'blocks of four' set that sold with a fair amount of bids in December on eBay (item number 361850842969) for $195(US).
Link
Don

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this post

"Current Score... Don 1 - Cancer 0"

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cardstamp

17 Mar 2017
05:57:36pm

Approvals

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

Thanks for the Ebay Information. As I said I saw someone currently selling a set of singles for $220.00 - So if these blocks of 4 sold for $195.00 then I would say the $220 is overpriced. The ones I have are "Mint Hinged" - so that in itself lowers the value. I may try an auction here first before trying Ebay or Hipstamp - although I doubt they would sell here. I almost thru them into an approval book - that would have been a mistake !
Steve

Like
Login to Like
this post

www.hipstamp.com/sto ...
Members Picture
Milco

19 Dec 2017
04:22:15pm

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

...probably You will be in surprise, but this set is little bit very hard to find on open market in Belgrade or Novi Sad (both city have an very active Philatelic Club).

Image Not Found
Image Not Found


In mnh condition, last information what I have (months back when I was in Belgrade), there was two sets available (in club meeting), and asked price was full Michel catalog + 20% premium.

best regards
Miloje

Like 
2 Members
like this post.
Login to Like.

stampmusthave.blogsp ...

Silence in the face of adversity is the father of complicity and collusion, the first cousins of conspiracy..
21 Dec 2017
01:57:06pm

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

" ... two sets available (in club meeting),
and asked price was full Michel catalog + 20% premium. ..."


That begs the questions;
"What is, or was, the Michel catalog price."
and,
"Did either one sell ?"

Like 
1 Member
likes this post.
Login to Like.

".... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Members Picture
Milco

03 Mar 2018
05:10:16pm

re: Yugoslavia Numbered set 1945

cdj1122:"...That begs the questions;
"What is, or was, the Michel catalog price."
and,
"Did either one sell ?"..."
----------------------------------------------------------
Michel catalog # 445/450 (no overprint), catalog value, mnh, = 13.00 euros,
Michel catalog # Block 2, mnh = 80.00 euro,
Michel catalog # overprint "1945":
just mentioned, but not number listing,
local catalog value = 10.00 euro,
Michel catalog # overprint with airplane red and black:
just mentioned, but no catalog listing,
local catalog value = 15.00 euro,
Michel catalog # overprint with airplane in gold:
local catalog value = 70.00 euro.

....as I'm informed, two offered in local club sold very quickly, my personal experience: sold this two sets (shown) - go to collector that specialize in Yugoslavia, for 35.00 euro + postage cost.

So, all depend what person want to achieve!
Every specialized collection for this country, will need this items as it is some kind of history, because stamps are printed by Gov't in exile, popularly named as "London Issue".



Like
Login to Like
this post

stampmusthave.blogsp ...
        

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